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Benzos Addicted to benzo's and too far gone to taper down and attempt to stop

Boku_

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
935
Addicted to benzo's and too far gone to taper down and attempt to stop

What do you call a middle aged person who has been using Valium non-stop long-term every night to sleep for years if not decades unchecked and despite having seizures when they don't take their nightly dose of Valium the doctors treating them for their benzo addiction come to the conclusion that the best course of action is to list them as a dependant benzodiazepine user on their medical records and just continue to supply them with Valium for the rest of their life pretty much until they die or most likely the Valium stops working and a more powerful but harmful sedative type of drug is required?

I know there is a term for the type of patient I describe I just can't remember it.
 
what taking Valium every night to sleep for the rest of your life is safe?
In some cases, when benzodiazepines are used for decades, best medical advice actually might be to keep using benzodiazepines for the rest of your life. Clonazepam is used in dosages up to 20mg as add on treatment for epilepsy so if one is able to take as prescribed ( example 3 x 2mg clonazepam) it can be a viable option. I am not saying that you should or shouldn't go that route as that is for your doctor and you to decide. I am giving informed opinion. Example, for someone that is taking benzodiazepines 2 decades the stress that withdrawal might bring on that persons body and mind can induce greater harm than is the benefit of stopping benzos. This are extreme cases but they do exist. If one is 50 or 60 and is functioning relatively well stopping long term benzodiazepine use can be counterproductive. Withdrawal can lead to seizures and all sorts of damages as the body is shocked by not having enough GABA so glutamate, epinephrine and other neurotransmitters can create a toxic environment as whole system becomes unregulated. Not mentioning mental suffering that can lead to permanent damage with life long lasting changes in personality accompanied by development of ptsd and other disorders. So yes in some cases taking benzodiazepines whole life is warranted. On the other hand very slow taper should be tried and can be aborted if it becomes dangerously unbearable. Where are you in this picture we can not tell. I hope that you are not that deep in the benzo waters. Take care!
 
Everything you said Sunyecho makes sense to me. Thanks for taking the time to write it. However have you ever been admitted to a psych ward at hospital and seen first hand a person having a seizure? It's not pretty. Not to mention it a daily benzo habit makes a man pretty much unable to enjoy sexual intercourse or simple masturbation. I knew a kid who was 18- 20 years old and could not cum/ejackalate/achieve a orgasm. The kid acted tough because he had biker connections but he was a joke. At least to people who knew the truth.

No I am not addicted to benzo's in the slightest atm (been there done that) I'd rather have sexual gratification.
 
I am taking benzodiazepines for more than 20 years. Was forced to take them for years cause stimulant psychosis was wrongly diagnosed as schizophrenia. But I don't have sexual side effects that you mentioned. Hope you find what works for you.
 
At least you didn't end addicted to anti-psychotics
No. They made me take them (1st and 2nd gen at the same time) for 5 years but I stopped taking them. But now we're straying away. I hope I helped a bit. If not just discard my posts. Take care man!
 
Pregabalin (Lyrica) & Benzodiazepine DO cause negative sexual side effects…..totally sucks. 3X worse than any opioid or SSRI

I usually reduce dose over 3 days until very low Friday……Saturday is “play time” date night where I’m feeling ready to rock

Vit B complex
Zinc
Fish oil (omega 3)
Garlic / Allicin (vasodilator)
L- Citrilline (potent vasodilator/ increase nitric oxide/ ROCK hard erections)
L- Arginine (same but poorer bioavailability)
Taurine
Viagreat suppliment (google it) can order online and amazing for sex, red ginseng, ginkgo, damania, 3 others
Damania (Amazing for sexual desire, hard erections)
Cannabis Sativa (Amazing for sexual desire & rock hard erections)
Depo-Testosterone 200mg IM injection (Huge cheat code, but essential lol)
L.S.D. 100ug taken 4 hours prior to erotic sexual fantasies (Amazing !!!!!!!)

Best sex in your entire life……only drug missing would be low therapeutic dose of Desoxyn 5-10mg oral d-desoxyephedrine hcl
 
Why would this person think it's too far gone? You can safely titrate using Valium. And if they are not happy as a maintenance patient, what then? Be honest and do the work. I've titrated down off Prazepam and Clonazepam successfully and with no doctor looking over my shoulder I just followed the basic guidelines of titrating down and that's taking an eighth to a fifth off of your dose every one and a half to two weeks whatever is most comfortable for you. But I have to challenge this person about saying they are too far gone. The amount of times I and countless other people have either cold turkey or titrated down off their benzo use is a testament that no one is ever too far gone to get off their maintenance therapy. I encourage you to be honest with yourself and listen to people who have been where you're at because they will tell you the truth and what to expect. Personally I would rather see that person stay on their meds if they have legitimate sleep problems then to hem and haw over how far the situation has gone. It is not the end of the world to be a lifelong benzo patient. And to the subject of sleep, nitrazapam and it's cousin flunitrazepam are far more suited to getting to sleep and staying asleep than Dalmene, triazolam or this your candy Valium.
 
To start, know that you are not alone.

I thought it was too late for me too, though our situations are different.

I became dependent on benzos, specifically fluroaprazolam (FLUALP) which I would take for sleep and also to lessen my alcohol consumption. Flualp seemed great at first because the main effects would last about 8 hours which was perfect because I could use it to sleep and not be too groggy and still go to work and function. It was also insanely cheap I think I got a gram for like $75 which is approx 4000 doses. It's a very powerful compound.

About a year in, I got to a point where within 24 hours of not dosing I would become extremely anxious and twitchy though as far as I know I never had any seizures because I would immediately re-dose. My tolerance also steadily increased. Started around 200ug and in the end it was more like 600-750ug. In my head I would say "Its not the worst thing to be a lifelong benzo user". I realized I wasn't a true addict, I was physically dependent. I never craved nor sought the effects as much as I just needed to not feel like I was going to die.

It really became a huge issue when I lost a gf/lover over it. I also realized my dependence was preventing me from ever travelling even though travelling is possibly my favorite thing to do in the world. I was scared that I would not be able to dose and die or have seizures on the road.

After so many blackouts and stupid actions I probably would have never done, I decided that I had to get off before it killed me some way or another.

At first, I started to let my close friends know my problem, and one of the first suggestions was to taper off using a much milder but longer lasting benzo. FLUAP, being so short would give me terrible and acute withdraw problems. I was given a small amount of diclazepam I believe it was called, but I found it way too bright and non-sedating it just would not put me to sleep and almost had slight stimulant effects on me. I went through the 100mg or whatever it was, maybe I wasn't taking it seriously enough, but I ultimately ended back on the Flualp.

Started to really take it seriously after I quit my job spontaneously. And come to think of it, the job was itself part of the problem. It was extremely stressful and also dangerous work. So I quit my job and decided to either put myself in rehab or something. Well looking at the rehab options and my wallet, I realized that was not going to be an option for me.
I decided that I would go travel and be stress free and be loved. First I'd fly to LA to see first my best friend and then later my mom in hawaii, who I hadn't seen in about 5 years. I begged a friend for some other longlaster and was given a very small amount of norfluorazepam and also flubromazolam? I started to use the norfluorzepam which has a halflife of 3 days, and it also did provide me the sedation that was necessary for sleep. It was also warm and fuzzy and didn't completely destroy my decision making (Like say clonazolam). I did use it pretty responsibly every 3rd day. I would drink to help me to sleep.

As I prepared for my travels and my norfluorazepam was dwindingling, I made 10 or so 10mg packets of the bromazolam that I intented to taper with while I was travelling. I figured each packet I could dissolve in liquid and volumetrically dose so I didn't black myself out for 4 days.
I got on a flight to go spend time with my best friend. It had been about 15 days since I had taken the FLUALP which was pretty good for me so I had already started my taper essentially.

I got to my friends, and one of the first things I did was to talk with a drug counselor about the best way I could taper. He was already impressed with what I had done and he told me that medically speaking, I would probably be ok. That gave me a lot of confidence. Regardless we worked out a taper plan which I was expected to keep. I gave my homie the benzos and the plan. Later that night we went out to a concert. I'd been planning on taking my first dose of the flubromazolam that same night.

We went out to the show and eventually I ate some MDMA and attracted the attention of an 18 year old girl who I later found out was absolutely brilliant. She was just getting into the (drug) scene and my friend developed some sort of weird paternal instinct over her. After the awesome show, me my friend, the girl and her 2 friends drove all over LA at 3 in the morning to find some very specific tacos which were meh. One of the girls lived in Malibu (Fancy eh?) and we drove them back to some crazy mansion. 2 of the 3 girls immediately went to sleep and me and my friend decided for the ride we would drink their entire bar. The younger girl stayed up with us. Then the mushroom chocolates came. We just took little nibbles but everything was hilarious. We shouldn't have but we hopped back in the car and drove to downtown malibu to find some breakfast. We were definitley tripping and probably a little drunk. We found some bougie breakfast place, and heckled all the rich people. It was a blast.

We'd ran out of mushrooms though, so we made the decision to drive back to LA to my homies house. We got there and proceeded to eat mushrooms for a legit 48 hours straight. We were tripping balls. To make a long story short, I eventually went to sleep. And when I woke up I decided to stop cold turkey. Me and my best friend made a little ceremony and we flushed the benzos.

Since then, I have taken a benzo here and there, but i would still do stupid shit so I haven't touched them for many months at this point.

I know valium is a completely different animal so youll have to find whats best way for you. I say don't give up. Just be very careful with whatever path you choose to take.
 
I've been on gabapentin and Valium and had no sexual side effects so It's not definitive that it will happen.

As far as titration for a long time diazepam users, switch them to Librium. You can titrate more easily with librium because it has a higher milligram dosage for the same effect as Valium.

I believe Dr. Ashton stated that the equivalence to 10 mg of diazepam is 25 mg of Librium chlordiazepoxide.

Librium is also more sedating than diazepam which may be helpful in some cases.

Combined with an anti-convulsant to protect against seizures during reducing titration, one may be able to lower the amount of benzodiazepine that a long-term benzodiazepine patient is taking.
 
Etizolam …..Diclazepam…….all great, 10 years back ……lots of pharmaceutical Diazepam, Clonazepam, Lorazepam, Alprazolam……fucking Valium 10mg reigns supreme. Period.

They’re all f@ckn trash compared to Valium 10mg tablets

I use daily oral Brompton Cocktail’s for RA chronic pain…..but Diazepam or Clonazepam are ESSENTIAL in this cocktail with Methadone 80mg, Ritalin 40mg, Pregabalin 300mg, Jin 3oz, cannabis Indica

……and lines of Cocaine hydrochloride blasted with every Tangueray Jin & Canada Dry cocktail

LSD is Such an amazing therapeutic molecule…..used weekly, today Sunday …..roaring fireplace, music videos on 65” smart tv, making erotic, sensual…..animalistic F@cking with my curvasious gf……..laughing still on LSD, laying in my bed drenched in sweat, cum, pussy juice, KY, and spilled Jin all over the sheets

Both took a shower together……kitchen for a fresh Sobey succulent chicken, Calabrian fresh buns, juicy tomatoes, crisp fresh lettuce, Swiss cheese, succulent juicy chicken……this sandwich was the size of a football and eating it was an experience I can’t convey while the LSD was sooooo powerful and at peak still……the smell of sweet apply pie in the oven …….my senses were in heaven, pleasurable dopamine & serotonin…..made my brain climax Soooooo hard for hour tonight

…..but my long term benzodiazepine usage and dependency concerns me

Using low therapeutic doses WILL and can still cause dependancy and withdrawal symptoms. A professional experienced individual with minute dose reductions with Diazepam with its looooong half life and active metabolites

Just like the 500mg of Diclazepam I have……Looooooong acting, active metabolites

Diclazepam (2 Chloro-Diazepam) metabolizes into Delorazepam then finally into Lorazepam (Ativan) 200hours plus of gradual reductions in benzo serum level
 
What about Klonopin use? ive only been using low theraputic doses for about a week and planed to take a 4 day break coming up soon.
I guess my question would be if that would be a long enough time to reset tolly or if i should take a longer break. my main concern of course is developing a dependence.
I use benzo pretty sparingly but this week has been extra stressful at work and personal life so most of this entire week ive dosed between .5mg and 4mg a day. 2MG twice daily at most.
 
you can not reset tolerance in that time, it takes over week by some people to eliminate clonazepam and while upregulation mechanisms trigger soon after blood levels start to drop, it takes unknown amount of time after 4-5 half-lives to reset in any sense.
 
But tolerance and dependence do not have linear correlation. You may have some tolerance with no real withdrawals with many drugs. Drawing the line might be messy tho'. Many neurologic responses happening.
 
you can not reset tolerance in that time, it takes over week by some people to eliminate clonazepam and while upregulation mechanisms trigger soon after blood levels start to drop, it takes unknown amount of time after 4-5 half-lives to reset in any sense.
If you're only taking it 3 days at a time, you sure can.
 
you are not so bad man the long post echoes my own experience closely only with earlier even stronger (if im right if not sorry) rc benzos. Went from taking triple digit amounts back down to being 2 pills above what im scripted. However the wheels are about to fall off and we will see what I have to say than.

FTR I would absolutely be on benzos for life if they were available readily. But like that dude said you become anchored to your stash, no vacations when different states have different laws, no plane flights....not worth the risk of losing your lifeline and possibly prosecuted despite the legality. If you aren't exceeding your prescribed dose I would probably agree that the largest problem you are likely to experience with bzos would definitely be sudden cessation. However long term affects I am pretty sure (someone smarter) have shown cognitive decline at increased rates. Personally i am no genius but im smart enough to read the chart that reads the more intelligent the more likely 'unhappy' w/e that means...
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. Would any of you guys rate being a long term user of crazy meds (Seroquel, olanzapine, risperidone, amisulpride lithium etc etc) much worse than a long term benzo habit? I've seen benzo addicts having full blown siezures first hand and boy it doesn't look pretty.

I was addicted to GHB and Valium in my early childhood years ( don't ask, fucked up step dad) and I had treatment in a childhood psych ward that successfully tapered me off all the drugs. However the long term affect that was most troublesome was my ability to fall asleep naturally. As a teenager it took me 2-3 hours to drift off to sleep and as a adult it usually takes me 4-5 hours to fall asleep.

I found a cure to this in my early twenties, smoking marijuana and living an active life. Bang I was drifting off to sleep in 30 minutes. I'd wake up refreshed. However 18 months into my daily marijuana smoking habit I had some traumatic experiences combined with a weekend speed habit and everything went to shit. I woke up in a mental health hospital ward and was put on anti-psychotics medication. Everyone warned me about anti-psychotics meds especially the weight gained long term but I didn't really care because I responded well to the treatment. And the real bonus was I could drive a car without having to worry about all the legal dramas with having a car crash and dope in your system.

Fast forward 21 years and I am now a stigmatized overweight psychiatric patient who is in and out of hospital every 4-5 years on average but as I have always said at least I am not addicted to GHB or benzo's to sleep. I am now 43 years old and what really gets me down is that since I turned 42 my health has gone downhill dramatically. Like I'm that fat it hurts to put my shoes on and tie up the laces. I can do it still but I'm sure you all get the picture. Also I am that unfit I can't comfortably walk more than 500 metres. Sure in my 20's and 30's I was a fat guy but I was a fit fat guy.

So I guess the only worse thing that could happen to me and cause me problems is if I was also addicted to those aussie drug scene counterfeit Xanax tablets that I read are really made of Etizolam. 2 of them with 2 glasses of white wine and I sleep like a baby. Good thing my old meth dealer retired. At $10 AUD a pop things could have worked out a lot worse
 
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