I've been on chantix for almost a month now and quit smoking two weeks ago. Quite proud of that being a 12 year smoker, breathing better and feel better in general. During this experience I've noticed my adderall (2 20mg XR Pills daily) has been increasing becoming less effective in some ways. I still get the energy from the adderall but I no longer recieve the focus, the euphoric feeling and confidence. So basically now all it is now is a 14 hour long potent coffee. Does anyone know the pharmacological reasoning behind this? It's not just me either, I made a pact with 3 of my friends to stop who are also prescribed addies and chantix and the exact same thing is occuring. Im going to my doctors soon and might request a different stim for the meantime. I can get pretty much whatever I want from the doc so anyone know of something good for ADHD that wouldn't get fucked by Chantix?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Adderall stopped working on Chantix
- Thread starter Ryar
- Start date
Yes
Mechanism of action Edit
Varenicline displays full agonism on α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors and is a partial agonist on the α4β2, α3β4, and α6β2 subtypes.[25][26][27] In addition, it is a weak agonist on the α3β2 containing receptors.
Varenicline's partial agonism on the α4β2 receptors rather than nicotine's full agonism produces less effect of dopamine release than nicotine's. This α4β2 competitive binding reduces the ability of nicotine to bind and stimulate the mesolimbic dopamine system - similar to the method of action of buprenorphine in the treatment of opioid addiction.[3] (source wiki)
Basically, the primary cause of nicotine causing pleasure involves a4b2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nACh) .
Both chantix and nicotine can fit into the nACH a4b2 receptors in your brain but nicotine is much better at fully activating the receptor.
The result is when you take chantix is may be easier to quit smoking because it goes in and clogs up the a4b2 nACh receptors so that when you smoke the nicotine can't fit into the receptors as effectively reducting the reinforcing effects of nicotine.
However, a4b2 nACh play a important role in dopamine release in a part of the brain called the mesolimbic brain areas. Additionally nicotine receptors are widely expressed in the parts of the brain involved in focus and memory. Additionally, muscarinic acetylcholine receptors a additional target of nicotine may play a important role in learning associations between a positive stimulus (amphetamine) and learning to go where that stimulus is. Rats where the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors are blocked by scopolamine impair learning to go to the right spot that has something positive or avoid a side that delivers a shock.
Basically, nicotine has many mechanisms that enhance the subjective effects of amphetamines
Some but not all of the reasons may include
A. Increased dopamine signaling in the mesolimbic brain. Areas associated with reward
B. Muscarinic acetylcholine agonism which may play a important role in learning to decrease or increase behaviors based on positive or negative outcomes.
C. At low doses increased noradrenaline release increasing the rush and causing activity in the locus coeroleus important for wakefulness
D. Increased focus due to changes in the frontal part of your brain.
E. Increased short memory due to partly changes In the hippocampus
Mechanism of action Edit
Varenicline displays full agonism on α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors and is a partial agonist on the α4β2, α3β4, and α6β2 subtypes.[25][26][27] In addition, it is a weak agonist on the α3β2 containing receptors.
Varenicline's partial agonism on the α4β2 receptors rather than nicotine's full agonism produces less effect of dopamine release than nicotine's. This α4β2 competitive binding reduces the ability of nicotine to bind and stimulate the mesolimbic dopamine system - similar to the method of action of buprenorphine in the treatment of opioid addiction.[3] (source wiki)
Basically, the primary cause of nicotine causing pleasure involves a4b2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nACh) .
Both chantix and nicotine can fit into the nACH a4b2 receptors in your brain but nicotine is much better at fully activating the receptor.
The result is when you take chantix is may be easier to quit smoking because it goes in and clogs up the a4b2 nACh receptors so that when you smoke the nicotine can't fit into the receptors as effectively reducting the reinforcing effects of nicotine.
However, a4b2 nACh play a important role in dopamine release in a part of the brain called the mesolimbic brain areas. Additionally nicotine receptors are widely expressed in the parts of the brain involved in focus and memory. Additionally, muscarinic acetylcholine receptors a additional target of nicotine may play a important role in learning associations between a positive stimulus (amphetamine) and learning to go where that stimulus is. Rats where the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors are blocked by scopolamine impair learning to go to the right spot that has something positive or avoid a side that delivers a shock.
Basically, nicotine has many mechanisms that enhance the subjective effects of amphetamines
Some but not all of the reasons may include
A. Increased dopamine signaling in the mesolimbic brain. Areas associated with reward
B. Muscarinic acetylcholine agonism which may play a important role in learning to decrease or increase behaviors based on positive or negative outcomes.
C. At low doses increased noradrenaline release increasing the rush and causing activity in the locus coeroleus important for wakefulness
D. Increased focus due to changes in the frontal part of your brain.
E. Increased short memory due to partly changes In the hippocampus
Wow, thanks for highly informative post man. I knew we weren't going crazy. Not sure why my doctor didn't mention this. I have ADHD and well I have absolutely no focus what-so-ever now.
Doctors tend to cover the clinical side. That is a completely different area. Most of that is actually from rat brains. Doctors focus more on the human side effects interactions and dosages and generally what it does.
The people who did the research on rat brains to discover that stuff out probably don't have the information In their head to safely put you on chantix and manage issues ECT. The same way doctors probably can't tell you how about what every single sub type of a subtype of a receptor interacts with something other random thing
The people who did the research on rat brains to discover that stuff out probably don't have the information In their head to safely put you on chantix and manage issues ECT. The same way doctors probably can't tell you how about what every single sub type of a subtype of a receptor interacts with something other random thing
I see, that makes sense. I'd imagine doctors who know all sides of medication and interactions to the T are quite rare and would be on a genius level. Would you happen to know of a drug that does what Adderall does but on different receptors? If one even exists that is. I feel as though im being raped of my dopamine and focus, really depressing :/
Nicotine gum.
Adderall at theraputic doesn't damage dopamine receptors. IMO this is based on a generalization that if you take large doses of methamphetamine and inject them into rats you can clearly see damage in areas involved in movement.
Nicotine actually protects dopamine receptors in motor areas associated with reducing risk of Parkinson's
The only real other one is Ritalin methylphenidate which some people find more tolerable and shorter acting and Wellbutrin for people who want a even milder effect* or modafinil for the focus and alertness without the fun
*milder doesn't mean safer while less able to change dopamine it can cause seizures.
Sorry my responses r going down hill the longer I'm up lol
Adderall at theraputic doesn't damage dopamine receptors. IMO this is based on a generalization that if you take large doses of methamphetamine and inject them into rats you can clearly see damage in areas involved in movement.
Nicotine actually protects dopamine receptors in motor areas associated with reducing risk of Parkinson's
The only real other one is Ritalin methylphenidate which some people find more tolerable and shorter acting and Wellbutrin for people who want a even milder effect* or modafinil for the focus and alertness without the fun
*milder doesn't mean safer while less able to change dopamine it can cause seizures.
Sorry my responses r going down hill the longer I'm up lol
Haha, nah on the nicotine gum. Trying to get off nicotine and cut out all the bad shit to try and get my MS and RA symptoms under control. Im also currently on welbutrin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Enbrel, Methotrexate, Interferon, Marijauna,and Xanax. so I think having a seizure would be quite hard haha. I'll probably have my Adderall dosage bumped and see if it helps. Yeah I know, im a mess...and modafil is lame
Well technically nicotine isnt all bad the major issue is smoking. I have major depression, add, and narcolepsy and it helps me drive and makes me less depressesd
Your taking adderall and wellbutrin
And
Lyrica and gabapentin
And xanax?
I thought i had to take alot of meds i hope ypu have insurance sheesh.
Be careful in some people wellbutrin may alter the pharmokinetics of adderall by inhibiting p450 cyp 2d6 possibly decreasing your bodys ability to eliminate it effectively
Also depsnding on the peaks amd valleys of your gaba receptor medications you can actually be at increased risk of seizures esp of you stop or say run out odf pills and the pharmacy is being d***heads.
This could be problematic because wellbutrin lowers seizure threshold and amphetamine may influence that further so you could be fine all of ansudden miss a dose of gaba meds and have a seizure
My sister took welbutrin for momths before having a seizure and m ad took it and it helped him no side effects
Your taking adderall and wellbutrin
And
Lyrica and gabapentin
And xanax?
I thought i had to take alot of meds i hope ypu have insurance sheesh.
Be careful in some people wellbutrin may alter the pharmokinetics of adderall by inhibiting p450 cyp 2d6 possibly decreasing your bodys ability to eliminate it effectively
Also depsnding on the peaks amd valleys of your gaba receptor medications you can actually be at increased risk of seizures esp of you stop or say run out odf pills and the pharmacy is being d***heads.
This could be problematic because wellbutrin lowers seizure threshold and amphetamine may influence that further so you could be fine all of ansudden miss a dose of gaba meds and have a seizure
My sister took welbutrin for momths before having a seizure and m ad took it and it helped him no side effects
razordesignz
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Possible serotonin syndrome
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It's not surprising. Antidepressants, which, granted, is nowadays a diverse category of different drugs, are known to have a ton of varying drug interactions, the thing is, they're usually not severe. Like everything, it's based heavily on independent physiology. Some, when on SSRI's for instance, claim that MDMA has absolutely no perceptible effect. I don't experience this phenomenon. My point is, that it's not uncommon to experience or perceive drugs to work differently when on antidepressants.
Congratulations Ryar!!! I'm soooooooo proud of you! I will be riding the Chantix train soon, after being a smoker for about 45 years! I know I must stop, right now using them as a crutch to get me through some tough times medically. But you will be my inspiration! Keep up the great work! Sorry can't help with the addie request, don't know nuttin' about that.....lol