This helped a bunch. Thanks!
MDMA is far more neurotoxic, because it targets the very vulnerable serotonin nerves.
Although the serotonin cell body is resilient, the axons that extend from the cell body are NOT.
And the higher brain regions, cortex and PFC, have the most vulnerable serotonin axons!
What is important to understand is that dopamine is suppressed by serotonin.
When you are coming up on MDMA, there is a wide-spread inhibition of dopamine transmission that causes a buildup.
Once serotonin begins to fall, the user experiences the 'peak'.
Dopamine FLOODS back down its pathways in the cortex and limbic reward circuits.
And a metabolic consequence is that excess dopamine finds its way into serotonin receptors and transporters that are just begging to be filled.
Now you have damage to mitochondria and the generation of peroxide radicals.
Suddenly the receptor is destroyed, the axon deteriorates, and the transporter protein is lost.
No this has not been directly observed in a living brain, but this is the leading theory of neurotoxicity.
Some level of 'toxicity' is thought to happen from EVERY MDMA experience.
Loss of the highest serotonin axons may be part of the euphoric experience!
The difference between mild axonal loss and widespread degeneration is DOSAGE.
Repeated doses of MDMA cause more and more loss of brain serotonin - and more dopamine substitution in the receptors.
More axons are chopped off of the cell body!
Perhaps...
What we know for sure is that markers of axonal function are lost in the brain's of MDMA users.
And autopsies of brains have also agreed with these results.
So regular MDMA use certainly does something to these nerves that could be labeled 'brain damage'.
It has also been PROVEN that methamphetamine potentiates the neurotoxicity of MDMA.
And since serotonin levels remain lower for weeks/months after use...
And MDMA and its metabolites take up to a week to be eliminated...
Any stimulant use, especially Adderall or meth, is a VERY BAD idea post-MDMA!
And this should be well-known among younger MDMA users.
There are many Adderall users on BL that claim they cannot roll.
One of the consequences of damage to the serotonin system is that the remaining axons experience an increase in serotonin supply.
And this causes an increase in dopamine inhibition around the brain.
Dopamine has four major pathways, and in three of them serotonin directly inhibits dopamine transmission.
The nigro-striatal is the most vulnerable to both amphetamine toxicity (Adderall) and serotonin inhibition.
Some former MDMA users have shown striatal dopamine depletion up to 3 years abstinence!
I mention these things to simply educate you.
The dopamine system is very resilient, which is why people can live on amphetamines for DECADES.
Your panic attacks are not a result of amphetamine psychosis - they are evidence of cortical serotonin axonal loss.
You have 'brain damage' at least on some minor level, and the result is dopamine inhibition.
By taking a potent dopamine releaser you are pushing back on the inhibitory process.
And you may be increasing glutamate to dangerous levels, which can cause further neuron damage.
STOP taking the Adderall.
For a long while.
MDMA toxicity is pretty well tolerated by most people.
Even heavy users with severe psychosis and depression typically recover within 12-18 months.
But that requires complete drug abstinence.
I doubt your case is that severe because most of those people parade around BL asking for help on research studies.
Their symptoms include changes in vision, appetite, social and cognitive function, and especially quality of sleep.
It is possible that you are experiencing changes in rCBV, or regional cerebral blood volume.
Do you have 'head-pressure'?
These feel like strange headaches that are limited to a small portion of the head.
They can also feel like something is tugging on your facial/cranial nerves constantly.
The worst is when it feels like something is pushing on the backs of your eye sockets!
Then there are 'brain zaps' which are much more sudden and violent, and quite scary.
Anything like head-pressure or zaps going on?
It is time to put down the adderall.
There is a wonderful class of drugs known as racetams that are very popular around college campuses for cognitive enhancement.
They are available online without prescription and they are VERY safe.
They also increase serotonin and dopamine in the highest brain region, the PFC.
And I can attest to the fact that they greatly enhance verbal and cognitive function.
They are so effective I am shocked that they do not have the other properties of stimulants like adderall.
Truly amazing stuff...
They are also very effective at reducing anxiety in post-MDMA periods.
Without Piracetam I don't know how I would have survived last year!
Your best option is exercise, because it increases plasticity and re-sprouting in the serotonin network.
Axons literally pop up after intense workouts!
It is the greatest asset for recovery from a variety of brain illnesses, and its benefits go beyond serotonin sprouting.
You must drop the adderall prior to workouts - you do NOT need to double stress your heart.
And start off light - the key is to repeat day after day.
Good luck.[/QUOTE]
I just posted my recent experiences taking mdma the day after i took my daily dose of adderall 30mg xr (I did not take adderall for the two days I took mdma). I was wondering why I was not experiencing the full roll I was expecting as compared to my first time trying mdma a few years prior and before I started taking adderall. Here is what I said:
"I've noticed that since I started taking my adderall prescription (daily), it has diminished the effects of molly. In my most recent experience taking molly, i was struggling with getting a full roll. I mean, i felt it come on a little bit, but it was a glitchy feel or something; the "feel good" moments (but not even close to the feel good moments I felt in my prior experiences) would only last like 20-30 min, and i would only feel some tingles here and there. So now im thinking that if i abstain from my meds for like 2 weeks before i plan to roll, then i should def feel the effects like i did my first time taking it and when I took it again 2 years later.
My 3rd time taking molly (moon rocks) was so frustrating though...I didn't feel the affects until about 1.5-2 hrs later, and the roll was only slight--I felt good, but I definitely did not experience the full roll I was expecting as compared to my first time doing it. The first time I tried molly it hit me super smooth. I didn't even notice it when it hit me...I just started to feel incredibly awesome out of nowhere, it lasted for like 6 hrs, and I did not have a come down even remotely close to what people say normally happens, in fact I don't remember feeling down at all. In addition, I found it interesting that after my 3rd time rolling, i didnt really crash hard (2-3 months after my 2nd time and about 4 months since I started taking adderall).
My 2nd time (amounting to using for 3 days in row at an edm event) trying molly was pretty good; not as great as my first time, but it was good enough to where I was dancing around and talking about anything and everything with every random person I ran into. I think this roll was good cause i hadn't been taking my meds for very long and i was taking a lower dosage. After my 2nd time, I did however, have to deal with an extreme amount of depression for about 3 days, and that was horrible!
Also, I think it is important to mention that when I was driving home from an event recently (after my 4th time trying molly--amounting to 2 days of use in row), i had to stop off and nap for like 2 hrs. I was so freakin sleepy, it was scary. So, I think that's another thing that happens if you take molly and adderall...it makes you stupid tired and you end up knocking out!
This is my experience with adderall and molly, but not everyone experiences the same effects when the 2 drugs are combined. It may very well be completely different if you do not take adderall on a daily basis and just decide to combine adderall and mdma to test out the affect when taken together. I know when I first started taking adderall, for about the first 2-3 days, I definitely felt very speedy. Eventually though, my body acclimated to my taking adderall and now I'm just super focused in everything I do."
So...would it be wise to just take my adderall when I adsolutely need it? Because there are some days where I don't take it because I'm not doing anything that requires 100% of my attention; the only time I really need it is for when I'm working. So, I know that I would like to try molly again some day, but I want to make sure that I get the experience I am paying for. I'm not a regular user, so I do not have a lot to go off of, nor have I been able to experiment enough to notice any trends, but I do think that adderall had quite an adverse affect on the way I was supposed to feel while on molly.
