Ethnobotanicals A stress balanced supplement with Lemon Balm

[emkee_reinvented]

Just got a bargain on two boxes of herbal stress reliever's.
The ingredient's are:

-300 mg Ashwaghanda extract
-222 mg Valerian extract
-80 mg Lemon Balm extract
-and three B-vitamin's but they are dosed low so not of importance.

The first two are familiar. But Lemon Balm always seemed more like a tea. And they dosed it so low I can hardly believe it would contribute too the effect's.
There is no info on how strong of an extract they used. But it got me curious about it.

Mainly bought it for the Ashwaghanda. But does Lemon Balm have an effect?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I believe it does have a mild gaba like effect like chamomile

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Chamomile has mild GABA effect's ,

never noticed them neither from Valerian

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Using the term vaguely here

recent research in this area points to GABA-ergic modulation by lemon balm—possibly via inhibition of the enzyme GABA transaminase (GABA-T)

 

[Conky]

Chamomile has mild GABA effect's ,

never noticed them neither from Valerian

Probably because the valerian capsules are shit and don't do anything

What you need is this:

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Nice bottle. Is there any Valerenic acid in it or is it the Valerian itself that works? Never had a effect from the tablets and such.


The dosage of Lemon Balm, in my caps, seems a bit low but it might work synergetic?

Today my experiment will start with two. The recommended dose.

 

[Conky]

The gamma-aminobutyric acidergic effects of valerian and valerenic acid on rat brainstem neuronal activity - PubMed

Valerian is an herb used in treating anxiety and insomnia. We observed that the valerian effects are mediated through brain gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptors in a rat brainstem preparation. Thus, valerian may potentiate the effects of anesthetics that act on GABA receptors, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The anxiolytic effects of a Valerian extract is based on valerenic acid - PubMed

The determining compound for the observed anxiolytic effect of the valerian extract is its content of valerenic acid.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[emkee_reinvented]

The gamma-aminobutyric acidergic effects of valerian and valerenic acid on rat brainstem neuronal activity - PubMed

Valerian is an herb used in treating anxiety and insomnia. We observed that the valerian effects are mediated through brain gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptors in a rat brainstem preparation. Thus, valerian may potentiate the effects of anesthetics that act on GABA receptors, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The anxiolytic effects of a Valerian extract is based on valerenic acid - PubMed

The determining compound for the observed anxiolytic effect of the valerian extract is its content of valerenic acid.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So do you know if the tablet's are devoid or have little Valerenic acid?

Afaik things like Salicilyc acid and Valproic acid are unstable, they degrade when exposed/ not kept well. So maybe the Valerenic acid degrades during processing while it remain's in a good tincture. Is that an possibility?
Read some good things about it seemingly it is a good GABA-ergic. Like in strong and noticeable.

Myself I had good results from Ashwaghanda as an overall life improving supplement but it is not specific GABA oriented. And makes your piss smell like Horse urine, it means something like that too. Power of a Horse, they mean power and smell

 

[emkee_reinvented]

So assuming the Valerenic part is the active pricipal. Can you describe your experience. Did they mention the percentage on the bottle.
An old, long time no see, member Hammilton (?) mentioned it. And comparied the strenght of it with Benzodiazepinen.

The stupid shop tablet's are obviously placebo's, my home grown Valerian did not go so well. But I am curious how it compares to a benzo, does it feel alike? That member said Valerenic Acid is potent, so I wonder would it be as potent as a benzo?

Very interested in magnolia Bark extraxt too, also a GABA-a agonist.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @emkee_reinvented

The combination products like what you're describing here are often of dubious quality/potency. There are good ones, sure, but many put having a given substance in the formulation more important for sales than accurately dosing all ingredients.

If you find herbs that work for you, you're much better off ordering them directly from more reputable suppliers. Get a dropper of Valerian, one of Lemon Balm and so on. Not only will you have a quality product, you will be able to mix and match to make the combination the most efficacious for you.

I live in Vermont so this shit is ridiculously easy to find, but depending upon your location, you may have to order the stuff.

I've heard good things about lemon Balm though. Ashwaghanda is hit or miss, some people love it, I don't see what the fuss is about. Valerian seems to be a mainstay of the "herbal anxiolytic" arena. I personally like Passion Flower a lot. You might also consider trying Kava. I hear people rave about that stuff and it seems to be pretty safe.

You have to do a lot of experimenting; trial and error with the herbal stuff. it's better to start that process knowing you have quality herbs. Finding what works and the perfect dosages is a long, but rewarding process.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Hey @emkee_reinvented

The combination products like what you're describing here are often of dubious quality/potency. There are good ones, sure, but many put having a given substance in the formulation more important for sales than accurately dosing all ingredients.

If you find herbs that work for you, you're much better off ordering them directly from more reputable suppliers. Get a dropper of Valerian, one of Lemon Balm and so on. Not only will you have a quality product, you will be able to mix and match to make the combination the most efficacious for you.

I live in Vermont so this shit is ridiculously easy to find, but depending upon your location, you may have to order the stuff.

I've heard good things about lemon Balm though. Ashwaghanda is hit or miss, some people love it, I don't see what the fuss is about. Valerian seems to be a mainstay of the "herbal anxiolytic" arena. I personally like Passion Flower a lot. You might also consider trying Kava. I hear people rave about that stuff and it seems to be pretty safe.

You have to do a lot of experimenting; trial and error with the herbal stuff. it's better to start that process knowing you have quality herbs. Finding what works and the perfect dosages is a long, but rewarding process.

Summer is coming so growing a good stash of Lemon Balm would be a piece a cake. Rosmarinic Acid seems the most active substance, but its the complex of the whole spectrum you probably need.

Passiflora is indeed interesting.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22107833/

All those essential oil's are sold the dried herb's too. So its possible to just use the whole herb make a tea or tincture. But I will first have to find if the substance responseable is getting in that oil solution. Do tinctures extract oil's?

To bad the ground round my house was poisened with PAC's (Para Aromatic Carbon's/ cause a.o. cancer). Due to a fire two door down a week ago. Halleluyah for PUR and Petrochemie. We allready had Sheepwool and Glasswool. But they preffered to isolate with poisonous material, burned quite good though, nice white smoke. And yes I inhaled.

At least I have high hope for this supplement. Its about the oldest brand their is, and they seem professional al was the ingredient list a bit of a puzzle it did contain all info and ammount's. Not a discounter product.
Agreed on Ashwhaganda, hit or miss. Mostly miss.

Kava Kava is illegal in the EU

​

 

[Keif' Richards]

Summer is coming so growing a good stash of Lemon Balm would be a piece a cake. Rosmarinic Acid seems the most active substance, but its the complex of the whole spectrum you probably need.

Passiflora is indeed interesting.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22107833/

All those essential oil's are sold the dried herb's too. So its possible to just use the whole herb make a tea or tincture. But I will first have to find if the substance responseable is getting in that oil solution. Do tinctures extract oil's?

To bad the ground round my house was poisened with PAC's (Para Aromatic Carbon's/ cause a.o. cancer). Due to a fire two door down a week ago. Halleluyah for PUR and Petrochemie. We allready had Sheepwool and Glasswool. But they preffered to isolate with poisonous material, burned quite good though, nice white smoke. And yes I inhaled.

At least I have high hope for this supplement. Its about the oldest brand their is, and they seem professional al was the ingredient list a bit of a puzzle it did contain all info and ammount's. Not a discounter product.
Agreed on Ashwhaganda, hit or miss. Mostly miss.

Kava Kava is illegal in the EU

​

Oh man, I wasn't aware of the Kava situation in Europe. It seems that this is probably due to earlier studies that seemed to link Kava and its constituent Kavalactones as causing liver damage. There is a lot of conjecture out there, though it seems that most of this fear was misplaced or otherwise due to poor study measures. I believe one comment was that they were using poor quality Kava (poor quality stuff or stuff made from the wrong part(s) of the plant indeed do cause problems). That's too bad. If you ever want help getting it in the mail, I can facilitate that as it's not illegal here, though that would likely be quite complicated, also probably against our guidelines... BAD KEIF

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Oh man, I wasn't aware of the Kava situation in Europe. It seems that this is probably due to earlier studies that seemed to link Kava and its constituent Kavalactones as causing liver damage. There is a lot of conjecture out there, though it seems that most of this fear was misplaced or otherwise due to poor study measures. I believe one comment was that they were using poor quality Kava (poor quality stuff or stuff made from the wrong part(s) of the plant indeed do cause problems). That's too bad. If you ever want help getting it in the mail, I can facilitate that as it's not illegal here, though that would likely be quite complicated, also probably against our guidelines... BAD KEIF

Well before the ban I did try it capsules from Solgar. A DIY concotion which involved milk, lecitine, a pile of shred's and lots of labour squeezing and re seeping and so on.

One thing I noticed both thecaps and my homebrew numbded the tongue in a particular way. But never experienced anything close to recreation. A friend that lived on Fiji said their Kava was totally inactive. So lets give a good example and hope I ever visit Polynesia or Hawaii. But thank's for almost breaking the rules. Eventually it will become legal again, and if I still live I'll try it.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Kava is illegal in all of the EU?

But you can get codeine OTC?

Kava is safer and less abusable than kratom.

What kind of topsy turvey fucked up world do we live in. Doesn't make sense.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Kava is illegal in all of the EU?

But you can get codeine OTC?

Kava is safer and less abusable than kratom.

What kind of topsy turvey fucked up world do we live in. Doesn't make sense.

Yes about the EU thing. There is a rumor pharmaceutical companiies were scared for a safer alternative for Benzo's. But official its the liver thing. Weirdly enough that was also a rumor about Kratom, but that's still legal.

Codeine OTC was removed before my time. We did briefly had OTC dextro-methorphan capsules, like 15 years ago.
And more then 20 years ago in France and Spain a lot was OTC. Just didn't know what and like the France in Spain they don't speak English. But in France i could have gotten Codeine, Spain had Meprobamate.

This will come over as absurd but in the Netherland's THC Weed is illegal but tolerated. But hemp, which contains max 0.3 % THC is with certificate perfectly legal.
I wanted to detoxify my soil with certified Hemp from PAC's. Forget it not allowed. I am allowed, according to the cops to grow 5 illegal weedplants. Only if my renter finds out I am homeless. The rental contract i quite clear about growing THC weed.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

" Even my mom think's that I lost my mind" Coolio.

On something, last night about past 22:00 after 2 Passiflora Incarnata/ Lemon Balm pills I was on the brick of falling a sleep nodding like a little kid. That is why she assumed something chemical. But I counted my pills and none taken. It was natural tiredness or that double dose of the supplement.

 

[Foreigner]

Ashwaganda competes with cortisol for the cortisol receptor. I find it makes me tired AF so I only ever take it at night.

Lemon balm does have anti anxiety effects but it's mild. I rarely use it for that. It's much better at treating herpes outbreaks, when used topically.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

" Even my mom think's that I lost my mind" Coolio.

On something, last night about past 22:00 after 2 Passiflora Incarnata/ Lemon Balm pills I was on the brick of falling a sleep nodding like a little kid. That is why she assumed something chemical. But I counted my pills and none taken. It was natural tiredness or that double dose of the supplement.

Placebo, last night another sleepless one knocked on my door. Took 2 Passiflora/ lemon Balm's, third later on. Had 15 mg DesChloroEtizolam, 5 mg NorFlurazepam and 8 mg Flubromazepam. Topped witk 0.3 mg Melatonin and no sleep.