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a-php cardiotoxicity

C

cicumcised_yak

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Dec 19, 2014
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I, as well as a few others (eg in http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/718984-alpha-PHP-a-php-Has-anyone-got-any-information/page4) have noted that a-php has a strong numbing effect. Its chemical structure would not suggest (at least to me, I'm not a pharmacologist) strong local anesthetic effect. There seem to be two possibilities:
1. A subset of vendors are cutting it with a local anesthetic for some reason.
2. It acts as a local anesthetic itself.

Either way:
Action as a local anesthetic nearly always comes from action on the voltage gated sodium ion channels. More specifically, they act to decrease the potential across cell membranes, thus interfering with transmission of electrical impulses (oversimplification of course). I am not aware of other mechanisms, and was not able to find any with a simple google search, but I suspect others could exist. This is widely believed to be the origin of the unusual cardiotoxicity of cocaine with respect to other stimulants of similar duration. Is it reasonable to assume that a-php would share this unusual cardiotoxicity? If so, injecting this compound would be profoundly dangerous, especially given how prone to excessive redosing with large doses a-php and similar compounds seem to be. This is particularly true since mdpv is known to have a very high ld-50 relative to its active does (information about a-pvp is much more scarce). That might make people assume that this compound would be similarly safe.

If someone can confirm that this would imply unusually high cardiotoxicity, I would like to post a warning on the thread referenced above, but did not want to induce unnecessary worry based on idle speculation.
 
A-PVP and A-PHP numb the tongue. Id say they have some anesthetic properties.

If youre taking PVs youre going insane. Question yourself.

All stimulants abused are bad for the heart
 
I would really like to find out aswell. Apvp definitly numbs. A burn followed by subtle numbing is noted on insufflation. Numbing also followed swollowing a crystal of apvp, all the way down till it hit my stomach and then just burned.
 
Ive been up for 3 days regularly plugging 80mg or smoking 100mg on foil at a time. Smoked 200mg in a couple breaths last night and saw lasers and beams of light flying around.

Heart rate currently at 120bpm. been drinking and smoking ab-CHMINICA a bit too.

THAT PARANOIA. THAT HAIL MARY HIT. THAT NAKED IN THE DARK FLOOR CRAWLING
 
3-mmc fucked up my heart-valves after 2 years od daily abuse, found out today at cardiologist* regret it now mayor anxity* dont know what to do...
 
^ I feel you, the APB's did a small number on my valves as well... it's the 5-ht2b agonism. There was a chick that came to BL trying to justify her 3 year 3-mmc habit but nobody could get through to her, she's gonna be in for a real wake-up call. Do you have any symptoms? How severe is the damage? I don't wanna derail the thread too much, just curious.
 
heart palpitations, dizzy, fainting, small weight gain, constant hight bpm 100+ , imo not worth abusing* the 5-ht2b agnosit drugs, didint realise that until a few days ago, 3-mmc was just so good, and had less side effects that meph and a lesser punch.... I regret it...
 
Can we get back on topic? I have came across pure small crystal apvp and I have doubts that its cut with anything.

It numbs after a few seconds with contact of interior of mouth or nasal passages right after the small burn.

Can anyone with a pharmacology or OChem back ground can look at its molecular structure and infer what could cause this?
 
pure small crystal apvp and I have doubts that its cut with anything.
Click to expand...

uh huh. and i'm sure you spent a lot of time checking purity yourself...

the fact that this is a pretty powerful monoamine reuptake inhibitor means it shouldnt really be suprising if it is a topical vasoconstrictor
 
sekio said:
uh huh. and i'm sure you spent a lot of time checking purity yourself...

the fact that this is a pretty powerful monoamine reuptake inhibitor means it shouldnt really be suprising if it is a topical vasoconstrictor
Click to expand...

Seriously, you can't even be sure that its really aPVP!

That said, all of the crystal forms of aPVP I have used had a numbing effect, although it was distinctly different from a ***-caine; perhaps because of the acidity as well mixing with the numbing.

Never used aPHP, from what I understand its mediocre, however aPVP destroys any flesh it comes in contact with faster than any drug I have ever done in my life. I wouldn't be surprised if it screwed with your heart.
 
cousinskeeter said:
Seriously, you can't even be sure that its really aPVP!

That said, all of the crystal forms of aPVP I have used had a numbing effect, although it was distinctly different from a ***-caine; perhaps because of the acidity as well mixing with the numbing.

Never used aPHP, from what I understand its mediocre, however aPVP destroys any flesh it comes in contact with faster than any drug I have ever done in my life. I wouldn't be surprised if it screwed with your heart.
Click to expand...

IV A PHP felt every bit as scary as IV cocaine- After the most shamful night misweighing my dose, I had full blown OEV's and was pretty sure a cardiovascular accident (CVA is not a really good term for this case clearly) was around the corner, meditation I believe is the only thing that saved me. I couldn't barely speak. I forgot to write out the complete report and post it on various site to remind people how dangerous it can be. I think I'm gonna do that, if I can warn even one person away from this. Not just because "WOWMG! OD's are scary and can kill you!", but I believe it has 5ht2b agonism. ALso, I ruined my pretty green veins collapsed the mainlines for months. Served me right, the scars are a good reminder "If it feels like it's doing you dirty, it probably is".

Is 5ht2b agonism possible? Maybe it was just a straight up stimulant OD. I thought I got sleep the night before, but maybe not and it was sleep dep + OD.
 
All the crystal a-Pvp I have tried had a minor numbing effect in the mouth, yes.

Although a-pvp seems to strongly irritate flesh. Meaning if you let it directly contact the inside of your mouth or esophagus prepare for swelling, irritation and burning sensations. When taking nasally it seems to cause scabbing and degradation of the septum much faster than most drugs out there.

I personally do not know the chemical mechanisms that make some chemicals more caustic to flesh than others (i do not believe it has to do with acidity/HCl though); however a-PVP doesnt seem to have much effect on serotonin whatsoever. MDPV hardly does either and plus aPVP is the non-MD bridge version. I do not think there is any 5HT2B agonism going on with both aPHP and aPVP. Unless there was some sort of secondary mechanism I am unaware of.

Stimulants by nature stress the heart. Considering current anecdotal evidence points to the idea that PVP is very caustic and irritating to flesh I guess it could be damaging your insides while in the blood however dont take that as anything near fact.

For example 3mmc has 5ht2b agonism because of the methyl group on the 3 position of the benzene ring making it a snug fit in the receptor.
So far I haven't heard anything about Prolintane, mdpv or similar compounds having direct negative effects on the heart chemically. Prolintane has a very good safety profile too, although its the deketonated form of aPVP.

Hardcore potent stimulants will fuck you up is the lesson here and you can definitely mess with your heart without directly killing cells ala Cocaine. No studies have been done so its all speculation and I am also not a chemist so feel free to correct me.

If you felt negative heart related effects after dosing aPHP you probably did a little too much and/or the paranoia kicked in. I wouldn't recommend abusing it long term though that is probably asking for trouble.

As for why it seems to have a minor numbing effect, I do not know. It may be hardcore irritation that feels similar to numbing or perhaps along the lines of what sekio said, there could be impurities from the synthesis. If you are truly worried stop using the drug.
 
Its not impurities, its not hardcore irritation.

Its straight numbing dinethocaine style
 
That's within the realm of possibility, but I highly doubt it. There have been numerous high purity MDPV and aPVP batches for a while now and they all got the scaries as a side effect. aPHP seems the same in that regards. There was a point during a bender where I was so high and sleep deprived, that after reading through wikipedia, I was convinced I had solved the Unified Theory. Needless to say the next morning I couldn't recall the details of the solution, but remembered knowing it. These chemicals are very strong, and are not your usual street meth where you spend the day cleaning your room. 24+ hours on any of the 3 I mentioned, and psychosis will begin to creep up. 3+ days and "you" is nothing more than a few stuttering flickers of a reality-video trying to buffer.

If you have some evidence of specific impurites in aPHP synths, and can link to studies that show those impurities could be psychosis inducing, that would be a whole nothing thing.
 
Impurities adding to the psychosis seems unlikely since sustained high dopamine levels combined with sleep deprivation are widely believed to be the origin of stimulant psychosis.

I am also interested in the cardio-toxic effects of a-php. The numbing effect of a-php is not subtle by a strech. I would think that this suggests sodium ion channel activity.
 
3 days up on a-PVP as well as a little LSD, i think some mushrooms, and at the end a massive amount of xanax to comedown and try to and rid myself of anxiety; I felt literally poisoned and completely out of my mind. I will never indulge in PV's ever again. Never would I want to spend hours peaking through my blinds at 4:00 am, thinking my friends were trying to rob me because they simply wanted to buy more of the a-PVP. I kept thinking I could see headlights pulling up in my driveway. Major paranoia.

A similar outcome took place with MDPV, but I didn't do as much nor was I awake that long. I just wanted to die the next afternoon.
 
^ this is why benzos/seroquel/mirtazapine are very important to have on hand. Also, make it a point not to deprive yourself of sleep longer than a day, two tops. They can definitely change your mind state in a very shitty way.

I can't imagine mixing shrooms and LSD with a-PVP though, that must have been..... intense to say the least. Glad your're alive and alright.

Back on topic:
After using a-PHP for 3 days, the only heart-related effects I felt was from the first dose kicking in. Other than that, nothing. I would really really like to know what a-PVP and a-PVP turn into when they darken into amber goo. Is it a different chemical? If so what is it? It kind of scares me haha.
 
Went on a bender with aPHP. Dosing unmeasured amounts IV - I have never been so high, better than PV (i feel fine afterwards).

But even with sleep IV aPHP brought on psychosis - i started to think the dopamine super high was a level above LSD etc. I watched porn for hours.

What I did notice was this sharpening of vision which was remarkable. Super clarity. I could see things I cannot see normally (real things, like well thought out designs on shirts or other graphics). I had up this porn image where the girl was blurred out, I had seen it before, but this time i was focused on all the weird lines and designs behind her which i would never notice.

I got the lights dimming (the sun, actually). I would look at a pencil on the table and it would turn 45 degrees. I watched my bottle of klonopin sway downward. Got to say very interesting. The rush of euphoria was unlike anything I'd IV'd before (usually I don't IV because I don't understand the "rush" talked about...aPHP gives a rush times like 5 i'm guessing for a person that feels "normal rushes off IV drugs".

Scary stuff. It smokes on top of a weed bowl with some ash alright.
 
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