Bomb319
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2011
- Messages
- 583
I've been on methadone maintenance for about 7 years now; I started at 220 mg due to high tolerance, but have mostly been on 170-200 mg for the past several years. Like most people, I find that methadone does not give me any real opiate high, although it certainly does cause other opiate-related effects and feelings if it's been an extra long time since my last dose (but certainly still no rush, nodding, etc.). However, I also need to put a huge asterisk next to this statement because in my experience, there is a BIG exception to this.
I've smoked for about 15 years or so, but quit and began vaping about 5 years ago. I usually use e-liquid containing 6-12 mg nicotine. Now here's the bizarre thing: a good haul on my vape inexplicably gives me a nearly immediate opiate rush. It's not like IV heroin or anything of course, but it's most certainly there. For a few seconds, I feel a distinct and very much unmistakable opiate high which then fades over the next few seconds and vanishes until my next puff. Other than during these times, I often don't feel the methadone at all, and certainly not any overt euphoric effects. It's powerful enough to feel an effect indistinguishable from an opiate high of Percocet or Dilaudid, and also to be able to easily discount any sort of placebo effect, and there is other strong evidence as well that it really is an opiate effect I'm feeling. For one thing, it only happens AFTER taking my methadone dose, and is usually stronger an hour to two hours after taking it. If I've missed a dose or two and am feeling significant opiate withdrawal, absolutely nothing happens when I vape (and it in fact can make me gag and even throw up by this point). The intensity of the effect also seems to correlate with the amount of methadone in my system in that there is a noticeable decline as the day progresses and the methadone wears off - only to resume following my next dose. However, there are times when it seems inexplicably far stronger than others despite no change in my dosing regimen. At times, I barely feel anything at all, while at others it's enough to make me say "holy s**t" out loud, and make me extremely curious as to the exact pharmacodynamics at play. Even stranger is the fact that smoking actual cigarettes doesn't seem to have a similar effect, although it's very hard to accurately compare nicotine content between a puff of a cigarette and a puff of my vape. I've discussed this with friends who insist that what I must be feeling is somehow a misidentified nicotine rush, but that doesn't explain the very opiate-like feeling of it, the correlation with my methadone dose, or the fact that it never happened to me before I started on methadone.
There HAS to be some sort of pharmacological explanation for this, but I've found it EXTREMELY difficult to find any other references to this effect online! That is extremely unexpected given the very large numbers of methadone users who also vape. This makes it that much more difficult for me to study the effect and possibly alter my usage patterns accordingly. For instance, I have no idea whether it causes the methadone already in my system to be metabolized more rapidly, leading to much more painful withdrawals when they happen.
One other thing that I believe to potentially be of significance is that I also regularly take Dramamine (which is Diphenhydramine with a mild stimulant). It does seem as though the effect is more powerful shortly after taking this drug as well, but it's very hard to identify a consistent effect. It certainly does NOT occur if I've taken Diphenhydramine but NOT methadone. As I've been addicted to opiates since 2007, I certainly know the effects when I experience them. What I would really like to know is exactly what the heck is going on here, and particularly WHY I can't find anything more than a fleeting reference to this online, which still doesn't really share the exact same characteristics of what I'm describing. I would obviously have thought that such a major effect should have certain online forums such as this one buzzing with activity, sharing knowledge and details of the phenomenon.
So if ANYONE at all even has the SLIGHTEST idea of what I'm talking about, I would really and truly appreciate your input! I hope to get a discussion going here that finally helps me understand just exactly what is going on on my body, once and for all. I'm also concerned that this will make it harder for me to eventually quit both methadone and nicotine, as it's obviously a strongly reinforcing effect. I've been decreasing my methadone dose by 5 mg every 4 weeks or so, and am currently on 175 mg - down from 200 only a few months ago. So far, I've noticed no decline in the effects that is always consistent with the decline in my methadone dosage, although it can be very hard to make sure of this since the effect is already extremely random in intensity, with no way for me to accurately predict how strong it will be in the given period. Thank you so much, everyone!
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is that some of the effect actually seems to persist even when early, initial physical withdrawal symptoms are becoming evident (excessive yawning, occasional sweats, mild chills) however it is NEVER present once withdrawal begins to set in in earnest (heavy sweats and chills, beginnings of nausea and vomiting). This is one of the reasons I am one hundred percent confident it's far from a placebo effect; its randomness in intensity or even its presence at all still surprises the hell out of me. I also take Clonidine - 0.2 mg in the morning and 0.4 mg at night, but I don't really see how that could be a factor here.
I've smoked for about 15 years or so, but quit and began vaping about 5 years ago. I usually use e-liquid containing 6-12 mg nicotine. Now here's the bizarre thing: a good haul on my vape inexplicably gives me a nearly immediate opiate rush. It's not like IV heroin or anything of course, but it's most certainly there. For a few seconds, I feel a distinct and very much unmistakable opiate high which then fades over the next few seconds and vanishes until my next puff. Other than during these times, I often don't feel the methadone at all, and certainly not any overt euphoric effects. It's powerful enough to feel an effect indistinguishable from an opiate high of Percocet or Dilaudid, and also to be able to easily discount any sort of placebo effect, and there is other strong evidence as well that it really is an opiate effect I'm feeling. For one thing, it only happens AFTER taking my methadone dose, and is usually stronger an hour to two hours after taking it. If I've missed a dose or two and am feeling significant opiate withdrawal, absolutely nothing happens when I vape (and it in fact can make me gag and even throw up by this point). The intensity of the effect also seems to correlate with the amount of methadone in my system in that there is a noticeable decline as the day progresses and the methadone wears off - only to resume following my next dose. However, there are times when it seems inexplicably far stronger than others despite no change in my dosing regimen. At times, I barely feel anything at all, while at others it's enough to make me say "holy s**t" out loud, and make me extremely curious as to the exact pharmacodynamics at play. Even stranger is the fact that smoking actual cigarettes doesn't seem to have a similar effect, although it's very hard to accurately compare nicotine content between a puff of a cigarette and a puff of my vape. I've discussed this with friends who insist that what I must be feeling is somehow a misidentified nicotine rush, but that doesn't explain the very opiate-like feeling of it, the correlation with my methadone dose, or the fact that it never happened to me before I started on methadone.
There HAS to be some sort of pharmacological explanation for this, but I've found it EXTREMELY difficult to find any other references to this effect online! That is extremely unexpected given the very large numbers of methadone users who also vape. This makes it that much more difficult for me to study the effect and possibly alter my usage patterns accordingly. For instance, I have no idea whether it causes the methadone already in my system to be metabolized more rapidly, leading to much more painful withdrawals when they happen.
One other thing that I believe to potentially be of significance is that I also regularly take Dramamine (which is Diphenhydramine with a mild stimulant). It does seem as though the effect is more powerful shortly after taking this drug as well, but it's very hard to identify a consistent effect. It certainly does NOT occur if I've taken Diphenhydramine but NOT methadone. As I've been addicted to opiates since 2007, I certainly know the effects when I experience them. What I would really like to know is exactly what the heck is going on here, and particularly WHY I can't find anything more than a fleeting reference to this online, which still doesn't really share the exact same characteristics of what I'm describing. I would obviously have thought that such a major effect should have certain online forums such as this one buzzing with activity, sharing knowledge and details of the phenomenon.
So if ANYONE at all even has the SLIGHTEST idea of what I'm talking about, I would really and truly appreciate your input! I hope to get a discussion going here that finally helps me understand just exactly what is going on on my body, once and for all. I'm also concerned that this will make it harder for me to eventually quit both methadone and nicotine, as it's obviously a strongly reinforcing effect. I've been decreasing my methadone dose by 5 mg every 4 weeks or so, and am currently on 175 mg - down from 200 only a few months ago. So far, I've noticed no decline in the effects that is always consistent with the decline in my methadone dosage, although it can be very hard to make sure of this since the effect is already extremely random in intensity, with no way for me to accurately predict how strong it will be in the given period. Thank you so much, everyone!
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is that some of the effect actually seems to persist even when early, initial physical withdrawal symptoms are becoming evident (excessive yawning, occasional sweats, mild chills) however it is NEVER present once withdrawal begins to set in in earnest (heavy sweats and chills, beginnings of nausea and vomiting). This is one of the reasons I am one hundred percent confident it's far from a placebo effect; its randomness in intensity or even its presence at all still surprises the hell out of me. I also take Clonidine - 0.2 mg in the morning and 0.4 mg at night, but I don't really see how that could be a factor here.
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