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80 year old grandma rolling for the first time - health and safety issues?

Pallyress

Pallyress

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
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168
My grandmother has signs of anxiety, agression and also isolates herself after grandpa died. He had Alzheimers for a decade, and granny was constantly on edge 24/7 to assure his safety. Now he has beed dead for a couple of years, but she still cannot relax, and I recognize symtoms in het that is simmilar to my ptsd, just milder (she hides it). She is hypervigilant, worries a lot, and loses it a bit if she doesn't know what's planned/gets surprises in her daily chedule.

I think she could benefit from a mild roll. It would be so nice if she could connect a bit more with her family, given that she is in her latest stage of life. I really love her, but her anxiety pushes us all away.

She is clear minded, but old and petite. Not sure if jaw clenching with dentures is a good thing, so plan is to have a mild, calm roll.

90 mg is pretty low, but she is a tiny lady. Not sure if we should use 1,5 mg per kg, or go lower. (she is super tiny, but not sure if she wants to tell her weight, she is old school, haba. I would guess 55 kg?

Mdma is tested, high grade, using a mg scale.
 
Pallyress said:
My grandmother has signs of anxiety, agression and also isolates herself after grandpa died. He had Alzheimers for a decade, and granny was constantly on edge 24/7 to assure his safety. Now he has beed dead for a couple of years, but she still cannot relax, and I recognize symtoms in het that is simmilar to my ptsd, just milder (she hides it). She is hypervigilant, worries a lot, and loses it a bit if she doesn't know what's planned/gets surprises in her daily chedule.

I think she could benefit from a mild roll. It would be so nice if she could connect a bit more with her family, given that she is in her latest stage of life. I really love her, but her anxiety pushes us all away.

She is clear minded, but old and petite. Not sure if jaw clenching with dentures is a good thing, so plan is to have a mild, calm roll.

90 mg is pretty low, but she is a tiny lady. Not sure if we should use 1,5 mg per kg, or go lower. (she is super tiny, but not sure if she wants to tell her weight, she is old school, haba. I would guess 55 kg?

Mdma is tested, high grade, using a mg scale.
Click to expand...


No, just -- NO -- probably one of the Stupidest ideas ever

You could very likely send her directly into the arms of your grandfather.

the heart rate and blood pressure increase is likely to cause a stroke and/or hearty attack at her age


Have her see the doctor for some diazepam -- 2 mg twice a day at her age will provide significant anxiety relief with minimal side effects
 
Heartrate nor blood pressure go up all that much when rolling, unless you're dancing. The impact really is rather mild. That being said however I completely agree with shugenja, very bad idea, there's too much risk of something going wrong at that age. And it's also possible that someone of that age might react unpredictable to drugs, not to mention the meds she might be on that might interact. Don't do it
 
Pallyress said:
My grandmother has signs of anxiety, agression and also isolates herself after grandpa died. He had Alzheimers for a decade, and granny was constantly on edge 24/7 to assure his safety. Now he has beed dead for a couple of years, but she still cannot relax, and I recognize symtoms in het that is simmilar to my ptsd, just milder (she hides it). She is hypervigilant, worries a lot, and loses it a bit if she doesn't know what's planned/gets surprises in her daily chedule.

I think she could benefit from a mild roll. It would be so nice if she could connect a bit more with her family, given that she is in her latest stage of life. I really love her, but her anxiety pushes us all away.

She is clear minded, but old and petite. Not sure if jaw clenching with dentures is a good thing, so plan is to have a mild, calm roll.

90 mg is pretty low, but she is a tiny lady. Not sure if we should use 1,5 mg per kg, or go lower. (she is super tiny, but not sure if she wants to tell her weight, she is old school, haba. I would guess 55 kg?

Mdma is tested, high grade, using a mg scale.
Click to expand...

Jeez, are you sure about this? At 38 I'm not sure I can cope with the stresses and strains MDMA places on the system, let alone 80! Don't forget just how much of a kicking your heart, kidneys and liver take on a roll. No worries at 20, but I wouldn't like to say what would happen at 80!

You'd best seek some advice from Raja Ram, one half of the psy-outfit Shpongle.. He's about that age and up until a few years ago at least still liked to cane it. You can talk to him via FB messenger, he's a nice guy and I've had a few chats with him (so he's no problem reaching out to us normal non-famous folk).

Just doesn't strike me as a good plan in my gut. Half of me wonders if this whole post is a hoax..
 
Id do it. Then again I am irresponsible.

Her blood pressure would be my only concern but then again if given the choice I could think of far worse ways to die.
 
Hello., all depends on her current health state. If she has no hearth problems,. you can start with 10MG MDMA. boost it each 15minutes/. After effect is reached. You might give her total max of 125 MG MDMA.

If she has no tolerance, she will be there, where you need her to be. But start slowly.

Nobody can give you correct answer on this, probably " not to do ". Start with 5 or 10 MG, then boost.]

Slowly you can get where you want her to be. Because if you drop to high dose of MDMA, usualy normal young body gets high heartbeats at start of the roll, that what you need to avoid starting slow. my 5 c
 
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Thanks for the inputs.

I've searched the web a little, just trying to get a better understanding, the claims of heart attack risk made me wary and curious.

I get the impression that heart attacks associated with mdma usually occurs together with :
A) overdoses (letal doses) /and used too often
B) overheating (dancing 'n stuff)
C) combined with other drugs (alcohol, extacy pills/not pure mdma)

For the sake of discussion I'd like to make this a more hypothetical case.

My anecdotical evidence is probably so unusual that it cannot be usedbfor others. I have never taken more than 140 in one hit, and it was after building up tolerance. I never move about/dance, I lay down, drink 1 beer glass of water during the trip, and regulate clothes and room temperature so I hardly sweat. I think I have felt the heart race a little one time, when I messed up the redosing a little. I also use adhd meds on a daily basis, so that's also in the mix.

I've messured my blood pressure to 110/80 on adhd stimulants, 10 hours after I rolled. But I've always had low blood pressure, so I get that I'm not the benchmark.

Edit: I'm 40 years old ;)

Grandma in question has suffered several traumatic losses (several children, nursed two siblings on their death bed), and she shows lots of ptsd symptoms. She uses prescribed diazepam for anxiety, and do take meds for high blood pressure. She also shows signs of hypervigilance, and irritable bowls (both common with ptsd). Sleep is difficult, and she is getting thin and lost muscles, latter because her condition makes it difficult for her to leave her house /go out. No heart conditions.

She was completely healthy all her life, but after nursing her late husband over many years, never able to relax day or night, her healt issues surfaced when he died.

Ptsd *can* be the cause of high blood pressure.

I don't think it's fail proof to give senior citizens mdma.

I also think that the conditions I've mentioned above will shorten her life, and life quality.

Are there any medical reports/studies on pure mdma use and strain on heart? I've read that heart attack with pure mdma/not crazy does occurs after overheating.

I can see that granny could suffer a heart attack if she rolled and went to a warm rave party, waving her glow stick all night long.

But what if it's taken at home, body temperature kept down, and listening to meditative music, as a spiritual experience? And at a low dose, not shooting for the moon/pure extacy.

Using small doses to build up seems like a good approach. Only concern is that it could take some time. Positive is the allergic test done safe.

But 90 would be too high, perhaps 50 or 60, and then adding 10mg every 20 mins? I believe 60 mg is the lowest threshold, would it not be better to start around there, so it doesn't drag out foe too long?

I'm talking nerdy and hypothetical now, I really would not want to kill granny: But I also want to challenge the perception that mdma is for the rave generation.
 
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Hey I'm 70 and have dentures. I have some trouble with high BP but nothing that drugs can't control and I roll.
The idea that an older person should not roll is very patronizing and somewhat ageist.
If gran is up for it why not indeed.
Just make sure that there are no health risks that you are unaware of.
Try first with a minimum roll of let us say 60-70 mg. As she is very small it is likely that this will be plenty.
Make sure she is well hydrated before rolling.
The dentures should not be a problem, but be ready to take them out if you think she needs to.
Work out what you want to do during the roll.
Make a list of things you'd like to talk about before you start.
Try to have everything near at hand.
Are you prepared to give Gran a rub or massage. She might like that.
It could be very intense and you might learn stuff you didn't want to know.
Good luck and be careful
XXX
 
Thank you augusta, I was glad when I got to your comment. I felt the same way but being young felt it wasn't my place to say.

Sasha Shulgin tripped regularly into his 80s, same with Leary I believe. In the JHU mushroom study I believe some of the participants were in their 60s. In PTSD MDMA studies I believe some veterans have been in their 50s and 60s.

It's so easy to forget that drug propaganda is propaganda, I do it myself. None of us would think twice about a 75-year-old having several glasses of wine.
 
Leary was 75 when he died. I do recall one of his or Richard Alperts books saying something about starting people over 60 on lower doses of LSD so as not to "shake them up" too much.
 
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shugenja said:
No, just -- NO -- probably one of the Stupidest ideas ever

You could very likely send her directly into the arms of your grandfather.

the heart rate and blood pressure increase is likely to cause a stroke and/or hearty attack at her age


Have her see the doctor for some diazepam -- 2 mg twice a day at her age will provide significant anxiety relief with minimal side effects
Click to expand...

Agreed, or have her doctor prescribe her a low dose of an SSRI.
 
Felonious Monk said:
Thank you augusta, I was glad when I got to your comment. I felt the same way but being young felt it wasn't my place to say.

Sasha Shulgin tripped regularly into his 80s, same with Leary I believe. In the JHU mushroom study I believe some of the participants were in their 60s. In PTSD MDMA studies I believe some veterans have been in their 50s and 60s.

It's so easy to forget that drug propaganda is propaganda, I do it myself. None of us would think twice about a 75-year-old having several glasses of wine.
Click to expand...

Tachycardia and hypertension are known effects

and yes, many intelligent people would have an issue with a 75 year old having SEVERAL glasses of wine
 
I personally don't think it can be healthy to give a person of that age MDMA, no matter how pure. Ask your doctor for something?
 
Thanks for all the input. Granny isn't going to roll, but I do like the discussion and welcome more input.

I think 'roll or not to roll' should not be purely age based. There are people in all ages that should not drink or do certain medicines or drugs, due to factors that are not age related. And senior citizens are often on more medication than young people, as a generalisation. Probably because doctors aren't so worried about addiction in old people, compared to young ones, but that is just my guess, I don't really know for sure.

I do welcome arguments for why it's a bad/risky idea, but please be more detailed, and not just say "too old". Some old people have health conditions that needs to be considered, and it is probably more common in old ages, but it doesn't mean that all old people have the same issues.

The earlier mentioned granny has high Bap and irritable bowl syndrome, but are otherwise healty. A bit unstable when she walks, but otherwise all her issues are due to many traumas (including BP and IBS, they are common).

My idea of her trying mdma was because I see she is in a lot if emotional pain, but I'm not going to suggest it for her. Mainly because I'm not comfortable with anybody doing mdma without reading up about it and making a personal judgment call, and she isn't likely to do that, she would only take my word for it. That is too much responsibility for me, as I'm not a doctor or therapist.

(imagine the potential 911 call - please come quick, I gave granny extacy, she is tripping too hard and acting out!!1)

Also, she thinks that anything but alcohol will make you into a drug addict the first time you try it. Haha.
 
Pallyress said:
Thanks for all the input. Granny isn't going to roll, but I do like the discussion and welcome more input.
...
Also, she thinks that anything but alcohol will make you into a drug addict the first time you try it. Haha.
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In that case you've got your answer. If she's going to freak about the idea of doing dope, it's probably a bad idea.

Shame, I feel that many people, especially older people could benefit from the mdma experience.

Quite a few older people do ahuayasca these days and discover the cosmos, so why not mdma and discover self-love?
 
And your grandma is right.....a drug as shirty as alcohol is not likely to be addictive in any way. (It's just legal) if everything was legal alcohol would be about as popular as huffing gasoline
 
I just have to ask (hope I didn't miss it if you said it already) - in your original plan, would your granny have known she's gonna be rolling?
(actually I was, in theory, hatching the same kind of plan for my parents for a while, the mother mostly, as she's uptight, conservative, stiff to the bone, therefore very, very unhappy and passively aggressive, and thus missing soo much I thought, oh and she's 85, too - just don't let them die without ever experiencing _this_... But obviously you can never, ever put substances into people without them knowing because that's just plain not OK.

Shame, I feel that many people, especially older people could benefit from the mdma experience.
Click to expand...
yeah... But they still need an open enough mind, otherwise I imagine they'd just be stunningly overwhelmed. I mean, I was 41 on my first roll and that was quite something to stomach, psychologically speaking. Just imagine you're 80 when you're suddenly forced to realize you never knew love, self-love, acceptance, empathy, and the whole MDMA thing.

On a sidenote: What we really need to fight for is, give MDMA its place in psycho therapy. Its such a shame that it is illegal even in therapy, it could really help so many people... Also if it was accepted as a therapeutic instrument it would lose much of its drug scare, a little easier for mom and granny to accept I guess.
 
stupidpolytox said:
I just have to ask (hope I didn't miss it if you said it already) - in your original plan, would your granny have known she's gonna be rolling?
(actually I was, in theory, hatching the same kind of plan for my parents for a while, the mother mostly, as she's uptight, conservative, stiff to the bone, therefore very, very unhappy and passively aggressive, and thus missing soo much I thought, oh and she's 85, too - just don't let them die without ever experiencing _this_... But obviously you can never, ever put substances into people without them knowing because that's just plain not OK.


yeah... But they still need an open enough mind, otherwise I imagine they'd just be stunningly overwhelmed. I mean, I was 41 on my first roll and that was quite something to stomach, psychologically speaking. Just imagine you're 80 when you're suddenly forced to realize you never knew love, self-love, acceptance, empathy, and the whole MDMA thing.

On a sidenote: What we really need to fight for is, give MDMA its place in psycho therapy. Its such a shame that it is illegal even in therapy, it could really help so many people... Also if it was accepted as a therapeutic instrument it would lose much of its drug scare, a little easier for mom and granny to accept I guess.
Click to expand...

Lol, I definitely wouldn't slip somebody a drug without telling them. I would imagine that could cause a bad roll with lots of anxiety, and a severe lack of trust in the continuing relationship. And possible police charges, but that would have been the easy part compared to the condemnation from my family!

I also agree that this treatment is urgent to get as a part of psychiatric treatment. If it was available within trauma therapt I would not have done it on my own, even if I believe my self-therapy assisted by MDMA has saved my life. It would probably be more effective done with a therapist. And also a lot safer, particularly the days after could potentially cause suicidal tendencies, even if my personal experience is the oposite, I have a tremendous positive afterglow and PTSD symptoms are at their lowest.

The setting is so important. It's not MDMA that fixes you, it's how you use it. A medical setting with an experienced guide/therapist is very essential. If not getting the setting right, one risk to do more harm than damage. I always question myself and worry about it, before I decide I need to roll again.

It's super scare to be close to suicidal and having no other option than to roll and meditate. So far my mind and heart has guided me well, combined with lots of research online.
 
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