Nexus_Tripper
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I've never done shrooms, but I have done 4-aco up to 100mg. How would 7g of Azures compare to 100mg of 4-Aco-DMT?
7g Psilocybe Azurecens
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psy997
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Wow, what a coincidence. I've also done 4-AcO-DMT at that high a dose, 95mg instead of 100mg, but still, the same. From quick reading it appears that azurescens have near if not double the psilocybin/psilocin as regular cubes along with more norbaeocystin and baeocystin. Considering that I'd say 7g of azurescens would be near 100mg 4-AcO-DMT actually. I mean, they're mushrooms so they could be less than double the potency of your average cubes or even higher if you have smaller material with higher concentrations... Yea I'd say you're looking at a pretty similar level trip, although I don't have tooooo much experience with shrooms. I've done regular cubes 3 or 4 times, and penis envys once compared to 4-AcO-DMT 20+ times... 3.5g of penis envys (supposed to be similar concentrations) had me fully broken through into hyperspace.
Looking at the Shroomery, they list 2.4g of azurescens as a level 5/5 trip btw.
Looking at the Shroomery, they list 2.4g of azurescens as a level 5/5 trip btw.
I tell ya, those penis envy shrooms are something else. My hardest ever shroom trip was on 3.5 grams of penis envies and i tripped much harder on that than on 6 gram of regular shroom. Why are they so strong?
I have done high doses of 4-aco/ho-dxx(x) (highest was 120 mg 4-ho-mipt, however it was taken in 3 doses separated by an hour each). I also have extensive experience with b+ and penis envy cubensis. I also have some experience with liberty caps.
So that’s my credentials and I'll now get onto the controversy. (Note: there are bluelighters who passionately disagree with my opinions, and they make their case well. I encourage you to consider both view points, and if you are comfortable with high doses, play around on your own and find out how you feel about what I'm about to say.)
Ok so let’s call b+ cubensis the "standard" mushroom (it certainly is the most common in my experience, which I have always attributed to the very easy grow process compared to other strains and availability of spores. However it may purely be a regional thing (midwest US). I would say 2 grams produces mild effects in most familiar with psychedelic intoxication (although obviously many variables besides dose factor into trip intensity, and I wish not to discredit anybody’s subjective experience, I am merely stating generalities I have observed in my experiences). 3.5 is getting stronger, a nice lick of psychedelia, and I think most people call this dose ideal background level intensity, meaning it probably won't overtake you but you will be unable to ignore the intensity. This dose I think most psychonauts would call the "fun" dose. 5-7 grams is full blast off, a guaranteed +++ to +++.5 on the shulgin scale, and probably too intense unless you are a psychedelic hedonist.
IME ~8 mg of 4-aco-dmt (and most of its slightly altered cousins) correlates to about a gram of B+ cubensis. However this is not a replication of the mushroom experience. 56 mg of 4-aco-dmt creates stronger visuals then 6 grams of b+, but 4-aco-dmt has never produced the full variety of mind games that exist for me with high dose b+.
And on the same token 7 grams of b+ cubensis fails to produce the mental depth of just 5 grams of cubensis penis envy, with 7-10 grams of penis envy being a guaranteed ego death every time I take that dose.
My personal experiences have lead me to directly believe that not all mushrooms are created equal, which is supported by the varying alkaloid content produced in different strains/grow conditions/etc.
Shulgin had this idea that 4-aco metabolized to 4-ho. I believe he also associated 4-po variants to this idea. 4-xx-dmt is all the same. My personal experience contradicts this greatly. In general from my experience (and note the only 4-po compound I have experience with is 4-po-dmt when it is produced in mushrooms), and this has applied across the board to all 4-xx-dxx(x) compounds I have tried; aco has a longer come up and produces more visuals with much less mental effects, while ho comes on faster and has a balance of mental and visual effects, and po I can only speculate, but with 4-xx-dmt specifically, I can say in my experience po-dmt produces more mental effects then visual display.
But, and once again this is pure theory many do not agree with, but I think the real magic in mushrooms come from the addition of 4-po-nmt (Baeocystin).
I personally believe the difference in B+ and penis envy is that penis envy contain much more 4-po-nmt compared to its cousin, though I know of no specific alkaloid content comparison of the two strains, and I have encountered some who insist the difference I perceive in the strains is purely placebo. I find this idea laughable to anyone who has encountered both strains, and I think the more rational explanation would be perhaps that what’s sold as penis envy spores is a cubensis hybrid with another mushroom.
My few experiences with liberty caps have taken me to comparable mental states of penis envy, which I attribute to the high 4-po-nmt content. The theory I find most credible is 4-po-xmt content in mushrooms produces effects no other psychedelic mimic’s and I personally find this state the most useful for what I wish to experience when ingesting this class of chemicals. pharmahuasca and high dose smoked/iv dmt is too overwhelming. And I mean that in a good way, I love being overwhelmed by psychedelics. But I can never take anything back from these experiences. The mindset mushrooms and mushrooms alone have created in me is philosophically therapeutic, for lack of a better term.
I am completely open to the idea that my personal chemistry just responds particularly well to the chemistry of mushrooms, and that no one else may be subject to these experience. Perhaps the Terence Mckenna lectures I listened to as a teen drives my subconscious to this day, even if I find his theories intellectually laughable now that I have a more informed background of scientific knowledge then I did then. But the internalization of the realizations that I have on mushrooms seem so objective, its hard for me to imagine it is just a subjective experience. So i stand by the theories I outlined above, knowing full well it might be that I just really like mushrooms. But that’s the problem with conscious, isn't it? You only ever have one vantage point, no matter how hard you try to see from a different point of view.
So that’s my extremely long winded way of saying
TL;DR: 4-aco-dmt even in extremely high doses, will never take you to where mushrooms can. The difference comes down to visual vs. mental effects. Or at least this has been my experience. I respect all other opinions on the issue, and wish to discredit no one’s experience; I am just outlining my personal thoughts on the topic.
So that’s my credentials and I'll now get onto the controversy. (Note: there are bluelighters who passionately disagree with my opinions, and they make their case well. I encourage you to consider both view points, and if you are comfortable with high doses, play around on your own and find out how you feel about what I'm about to say.)
Ok so let’s call b+ cubensis the "standard" mushroom (it certainly is the most common in my experience, which I have always attributed to the very easy grow process compared to other strains and availability of spores. However it may purely be a regional thing (midwest US). I would say 2 grams produces mild effects in most familiar with psychedelic intoxication (although obviously many variables besides dose factor into trip intensity, and I wish not to discredit anybody’s subjective experience, I am merely stating generalities I have observed in my experiences). 3.5 is getting stronger, a nice lick of psychedelia, and I think most people call this dose ideal background level intensity, meaning it probably won't overtake you but you will be unable to ignore the intensity. This dose I think most psychonauts would call the "fun" dose. 5-7 grams is full blast off, a guaranteed +++ to +++.5 on the shulgin scale, and probably too intense unless you are a psychedelic hedonist.
IME ~8 mg of 4-aco-dmt (and most of its slightly altered cousins) correlates to about a gram of B+ cubensis. However this is not a replication of the mushroom experience. 56 mg of 4-aco-dmt creates stronger visuals then 6 grams of b+, but 4-aco-dmt has never produced the full variety of mind games that exist for me with high dose b+.
And on the same token 7 grams of b+ cubensis fails to produce the mental depth of just 5 grams of cubensis penis envy, with 7-10 grams of penis envy being a guaranteed ego death every time I take that dose.
My personal experiences have lead me to directly believe that not all mushrooms are created equal, which is supported by the varying alkaloid content produced in different strains/grow conditions/etc.
Shulgin had this idea that 4-aco metabolized to 4-ho. I believe he also associated 4-po variants to this idea. 4-xx-dmt is all the same. My personal experience contradicts this greatly. In general from my experience (and note the only 4-po compound I have experience with is 4-po-dmt when it is produced in mushrooms), and this has applied across the board to all 4-xx-dxx(x) compounds I have tried; aco has a longer come up and produces more visuals with much less mental effects, while ho comes on faster and has a balance of mental and visual effects, and po I can only speculate, but with 4-xx-dmt specifically, I can say in my experience po-dmt produces more mental effects then visual display.
But, and once again this is pure theory many do not agree with, but I think the real magic in mushrooms come from the addition of 4-po-nmt (Baeocystin).
I personally believe the difference in B+ and penis envy is that penis envy contain much more 4-po-nmt compared to its cousin, though I know of no specific alkaloid content comparison of the two strains, and I have encountered some who insist the difference I perceive in the strains is purely placebo. I find this idea laughable to anyone who has encountered both strains, and I think the more rational explanation would be perhaps that what’s sold as penis envy spores is a cubensis hybrid with another mushroom.
My few experiences with liberty caps have taken me to comparable mental states of penis envy, which I attribute to the high 4-po-nmt content. The theory I find most credible is 4-po-xmt content in mushrooms produces effects no other psychedelic mimic’s and I personally find this state the most useful for what I wish to experience when ingesting this class of chemicals. pharmahuasca and high dose smoked/iv dmt is too overwhelming. And I mean that in a good way, I love being overwhelmed by psychedelics. But I can never take anything back from these experiences. The mindset mushrooms and mushrooms alone have created in me is philosophically therapeutic, for lack of a better term.
I am completely open to the idea that my personal chemistry just responds particularly well to the chemistry of mushrooms, and that no one else may be subject to these experience. Perhaps the Terence Mckenna lectures I listened to as a teen drives my subconscious to this day, even if I find his theories intellectually laughable now that I have a more informed background of scientific knowledge then I did then. But the internalization of the realizations that I have on mushrooms seem so objective, its hard for me to imagine it is just a subjective experience. So i stand by the theories I outlined above, knowing full well it might be that I just really like mushrooms. But that’s the problem with conscious, isn't it? You only ever have one vantage point, no matter how hard you try to see from a different point of view.
So that’s my extremely long winded way of saying
TL;DR: 4-aco-dmt even in extremely high doses, will never take you to where mushrooms can. The difference comes down to visual vs. mental effects. Or at least this has been my experience. I respect all other opinions on the issue, and wish to discredit no one’s experience; I am just outlining my personal thoughts on the topic.
Solipsis
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
- Messages
- 15,509
Penis envy happens to be a genetic mutant..
And even if these equipotency calculations of yours are correct, I would still test the waters by taking a quarter part of those 7g first, and attempting that full dose later. Or, what I mean by saying this is: don't assume that they act quite the same, for example I can take a buttload of 4-HO-MET but not Cubensis mushrooms. Better safe than sorry, don't underestimate the shroom mindfuck.
And even if these equipotency calculations of yours are correct, I would still test the waters by taking a quarter part of those 7g first, and attempting that full dose later. Or, what I mean by saying this is: don't assume that they act quite the same, for example I can take a buttload of 4-HO-MET but not Cubensis mushrooms. Better safe than sorry, don't underestimate the shroom mindfuck.