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5htp & tyrosine

S

springfield5

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Joined
Nov 9, 2014
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1
hey guys
soory about my bad english first im from israel .
so i have been taking prozc more then 10 years since i was 12 for my ocd and axiety
and yeah it was help me with the ocd but theres is a big but here .
i didint know the prozc cause me a realy raly axciety attack and Sadness .
people realy didnt recoginze me .
but i still took it cause my ocd was so severe and it was help me with the obbasion thinking
so im 22 years old and the last year i start to realzie that the prozc cause more bad things then good.
i qiut taking prozck right know im 2 monthes without it .
but at the beining the second month my obssaison comes and i try to realse what could i do without taking ssri .
i have read about 5htp and start to takin it last week .
it had a huge affect on me i felt much better . the side effect was acuatly the same side effact as prozck but much lower axiety and sadness .
i recomnned to mixture the 5htp with trysoine .
so my quastion is .
when should i take the tyrsone and the 5htp on the day and what is the dose
thers is any long term effect using thouse prodct ?
i have read that people should brakes with amini acid for a while Not cause the brain to get used to is that true ?
how should combine the tyrosine and 5htp










 
Well, 5htp is sensitive to dopamine. That is why people describe it to potentiate cannabis.

Id expect an effect closer to bath salts than antidepressant.
 
An increase of dietary protein is probably better.
 
sekio said:
An increase of dietary protein is probably better.
Click to expand...

Why?

In my understanding, absorption of a particular amino-acid decrease absorption of others. If you want a little help, you have to take the amino-acid without others. Like glutamine alone for gut health, 5HTP alone for sleep, tyrosine for a little concentration boost...
 
L-Tyrosine is not suitable for everyday use. Tolerance develops fast and since it's a non-essential amino acid, your body is able to synthesize it by it self.
Therefore, it is very likely that taking Tysosine everyday as a supplement will cause your body to decrease it's own production, eventually causing a situation where you need to supplement just to reach normal levels. Im not sure about whether the above mentioned stuff will happen or not, but I find it very likely and definately wouldn't risk it myself.
It's great for occasional use though.

I would also prefer taking L-trypthophan instead of the 5-htp if your going to use it everyday.
It should have about the same positive effects but without some of the side effects associated with 5-HTP (something about Serotonine being synthensized somewhere within the body where you don't want it to)
 
If you take only 5-htp, your brain somehow decreases the amount of dopamine. To counterbalance this, you must take l-tyrosine. The same is for l-tyrosine....taken for a while, the amount of serotonin will decrease. I take 200mg. Of 5-htp at night on an empty stomach. And take 2,000 mg. Of tyrosine during the day on an empty stomach. In addition to that, I drink whey protein, which contains huge amounts of amino acids.
 
punkftl said:
If you take only 5-htp, your brain somehow decreases the amount of dopamine. To counterbalance this, you must take l-tyrosine. The same is for l-tyrosine....taken for a while, the amount of serotonin will decrease. I take 200mg. Of 5-htp at night on an empty stomach. And take 2,000 mg. Of tyrosine during the day on an empty stomach. In addition to that, I drink whey protein, which contains huge amounts of amino acids.
Click to expand...

How do you know that taking 5-HTP decreases the amount of dopamine?
 
JWills20 said:
Based on the premise that serotonin and dopamine both require the same enzyme for synthesis so overloading one reduces the other.
Click to expand...

Can you link a study for this, please?
I'd guess that the total amount of serotonin will be more, while dopamine stays the same, because 5-HTP and L-DOPA won't be competing for aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase in dopamine producing neurons.
 
l-tyrosine....taken for a while, the amount of serotonin will decrease.
Click to expand...

Somehow, I doubt this very much. The enzymes that hydroxylate tryptophan are not the same that hydroxylate tyrosine/phenylalanine. (c.f. nobody uses tyrosine in parkinsons - they use L-DOPA)

And besides, all the amino acids in the world won't do you a tiny bit of good if they get totally destroyed (converted to the resp. amines and then oxidised away) outside the BBB! Which is what happens with mega doses of e.g. 5htp.
 
The Happy Wanderer said:
Can you link a study for this, please?
I'd guess that the total amount of serotonin will be more, while dopamine stays the same, because 5-HTP and L-DOPA won't be competing for aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase in dopamine producing neurons.
Click to expand...

Nope. Somebody mentioned it in MED and I never really questionned it. All I do know is that the brain attempts to balance the production and usage of the catecholamines. Whether this would be strongly impacted through precursor supplements I don't know.
 
So JWills20 seems to be right. Very interesting!

Edit: Thank you very much punkftl, I've been reading a lot about 5-HTP, but somehow never found this.
Edit2: Now I see it's linking mostly to studies from the same guys. Which are offering a unique testing method....
 
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punkftl said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/
Click to expand...

That's a good start, but all of their references* use urinary catecholamine measures to make their conclusions. I wonder how well that reflects what happens centrally?

Straight from the reference above:

In other words, it is unknown whether 5-HTP augments or reduces catecholaminergic neuronal functions
Click to expand...


*both the review and all relevant references come from the Uncini group like The Happy Wanderer mentioned
 
I wonder why the don't use liquor cerebrospinalis for this instead of urin?

I found more studies related to this, also involving catecholamines and would like to discuss this. Is it ok to do it here or should I open a new thread?

Guess I'll just start and we can still move it, right?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4211847/

in the linked study above they say levodopa/carbidopa combination is bad, as carbidopa is depleting vitamin B6. They're instead proposing a treating with pure levodopa combined with 5-HTP and more compounds. However, they're saying carbidopa is just for nausea caused by peripheral dopamine. Don't know if this is true, as I read that's it's more about getting an higher amount of L-Dopa to the CNS.
I really hope someone tries to verify this with more studies soon.
 
The Happy Wanderer said:
I wonder why the don't use liquor cerebrospinalis for this instead of urin?
Click to expand...

We call "liquor cerebrospinalis" cerebrospinal fluid now, or CSF.

Sampling CSF is a lot more invasive than peeing in a cup. So cost, impact on the patients and ease of collection were probably the main factors.
 
endotropic said:
We call "liquor cerebrospinalis" cerebrospinal fluid now, or CSF.

Sampling CSF is a lot more invasive than peeing in a cup. So cost, impact on the patients and ease of collection were probably the main factors.
Click to expand...

Ah ok.
I carry a lot of CSF to the lab, so I just wondered: If you have a patient and you need his CSF for whatever, you could still check it for neurotransmitter metabolites.
Maybe It's still more expensive, but on the other hand there's more to learn from it, right (I'd guess)? Because there should be a lot of them who are also depressed or anxious. The ones without psychiatric problems could be control group.
 
The Happy Wanderer said:
Ah ok.
I carry a lot of CSF to the lab, so I just wondered: If you have a patient and you need his CSF for whatever, you could still check it for neurotransmitter metabolites.
Maybe It's still more expensive, but on the other hand there's more to learn from it, right (I'd guess)? Because there should be a lot of them who are also depressed or anxious. The ones without psychiatric problems could be control group.
Click to expand...

You're right once you have the CSF it wouldn't be that difficult/expensive to do those sorts of measurements, but in these studies the patients didn't have any sort of medical procedures done besides the urinalysis. There are tons of regulatory hurdles between collecting pee and collecting spinal fluid, and it's quite a bit harder to find people that will consent to a spinal tap that they don't need for medical reasons.


Reading some of these papers a bit closer now, they found that supplemental 5-HTP only accounts for 15% of the variability in urine 5-HT levels, while supplemental tyrosine actually decreased urine dopamine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19557117

I haven't been able to find the primary literature where they show the cross interaction between 5-HTP/dopamine and tyrosine/5-HT in the urine yet. A lot of their references don't actually address the point they're referencing :(

edit: The lead author (Dr. Uncini) runs his own independent medical laboratory, DBS labs, which you can read about here: http://labdbs.com/
Just read those first two paragraphs and make up your own mind.
 
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