Tryptamines 4-HO-MET kidney problems?

[《Plasticity》]

I was gonna post this in the big and dandy 4-HO-MET thread but figured it would be viewed more on it's own but If you mods feel it belongs there then do your magic I guess. So I stumbled upon half a gram of 4-HO-MET and can't wait to give it a whirl, the only thing that's holding me back are these reports of kidney pains associated with this chem. I mean I can quote at least 5 TR/comments reporting kidney pains within a matter of seconds. I'm aware that psychedelics can cause some back tension and have experienced it first hand but I don't think I would go out to say that it's kidney pain although I may be wrong but I'm wondering if someone wrote a report involving kidney problems and everyone else who experienced the rather common back tension linked it to kidney problems as well. I guess the point of my post is to find out if anyone has run into these kidney pains that I keep seeing associated with this chem, I won't knowingly ingest something that may damage my kidneys. Perhaps the muscle tension is a bit higher with this chem, has anyone actually had any physical urine changes while using Metocin?

 

[black53]

Hi,

I've never used large amounts of this consecutively, but from sporadic use I've never noticed any problems. My kidney are otherwise completely healthy.

 

[《Plasticity》]

That's good, did you have any back tension? I think I'm just going to dose a small amount (15mgs) and see how I react.

 

[black53]

It was a long time go and I don't remember any significant tension. As far as I remember 4-ho-met it was very gentle on the body.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Yeah, I'd question the purity of any material causing any significant bodyload that is being sold as 4-HO-MET. It is probably the lightest on the body of any psychedelic I've had. Not even any muscle tension.

 

[《Plasticity》]

These reports are rather old so maybe it was a purity issue. It's always worrying seeing consistent reports of kidney problems when an RC is involved though. Mine is 98+% purity with NMR from a very reputable vendor so I think my batch is golden. Pure white and no fishy smell that others have mentioned with different batches. Would hate to put my kidneys through un-necessary stress, I'm sure I put em through enough as it is. Dialysis doesn't sounds like a good time :/

 

[jameskpoke]

the only weird side effects Ive experienced is flushing , my face gets pretty red, and excessively sweaty palms, feet and armpits. i get really stinky after researching it for some reason, like more stinky than normal sweat. i get this with other 4-sub tryptamines too but its much more pronounced with 4homet than the others. despite these minor side effects its still my favorite synthetic tryptamine. i dont think ive noticed any kidney effects but idk.

i get more tension in my machines from 4-ho/aco-mipt and a little less so with 4acodmt, especially during the come-up

tons of tension from any 5-meo tryptamine. i dont enjoy 5-meo's at all

 

[black53]

I think all of the 4-sub trypts are gentle on the body, like all the ergoloids (for me anyway). If you want stuff with bad body load just look at the 2cs.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I'm definately beginning to think this was purity issue now. This batch looks quite nasty http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...eskt3NVCEx7gPAIQVrN67Dqpwdv-7aKx8WPHLeD6ZJpAQ, not saying this batch caused any problems, just that this batch looks a bit dirty considering mine is bright white.

I think all of the 4-sub trypts are gentle on the body, like all the ergoloids (for me anyway). If you want stuff with bad body load just look at the 2cs.

...Or the 5-MEO's. 5-MEO's are an almost guranteed shitty time for me, at least I have fun on most 2c's.

 

[mysticmusic]

I have researched 4-ho-met fumerate extensively over the last two years and have only had nausea with batches that were stored for over a year at room temperature. No kidney issues ever presented.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Yeah I've already taken 4-HO-MET and the bodyload was non-existant besides some confusion on the come-up. I'm actually gonna take 20mgs along with 100mgs of 5-APB later on so I guess I'll be putting my kidneys to the test lol.

 

[HofmannBlotter]

The only downside with this chem I had is probably the strain it put on my heart (a speedy effect) associated with some sweaty palms.
I have some bad comedown with it Too bad because I love it the first time I did it... I'll may try it again in a near future

 

[《Plasticity》]

The only downside with this chem I had is probably the strain it put on my heart (a speedy effect) associated with some sweaty palms.
I have some bad comedown with it Too bad because I love it the first time I did it... I'll may try it again in a near future

Your not the first to make these complaints but luckily I found Metocin as sedating and smooth as Psilacetin. 4-HO-MIPT and 4-HO-DET are another story, both can get a bit jittery at times.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

I should elaborate. Some of these tryptamines cause a bit of renal issues for me, I feel I need to piss a lot more than usual, say once ever 2 hours or so. In some cases an almost constant feeling like I've taken a diuretic. Also very mild vasoconstriction and chilly extremities but no other issues. The substances that cause discomfort are 5 meo-mipt/dipt and after the initial 4 hours have passed I get a really heavy feel of dread/tachycardia just super uncomfortable. Erowid trip reports of 5 meo mipt have one or two negative experiences similar to my own. To high a dose of 4 ho mipt can, for me at any rate, cause pseudo seizures (40 mg+). I experienced this effect personally although I had lower tolerance as i'd had a bit of a break from psychedelic drugs and perhaps my liver may not be as healthy as it once was?? Also sweating, muscle cramps/spasms. I find 10-20 mg 4 ho mipt to be enjoyable especially if combined at say 10 mg 4 ho mipt with 20 mg 4 aco dmt. 40 odd mgs 4 ho mipt was just to much almost approaching the I'm one with everything, the ceiling and I are one, I hate to use these words but "ego death", type heavy trip experience but with some not very nice side effects for my reward.

I found 4 aco/ho dpt/dipt also cause palpitations/tachycardia body load and just a general feeling of discomfort not bad but enough for me to not enjoy these substances. No other analogues of these types cause any major issues apart from the need to pee excessively (not bad just more than usual) and cold extremities from mild vasoconstriction (most psychedelics and stimulants tend to do this). 2ce is the only chemical of the 2cx class that ever gives me any serious body load. 2ci gives some muscle cramps but compared to a high dose 4 ho mipt it's mild and no where near as bad as aco/ho dpt/dipt which are best for me at low doses but there are better tryptamines of this type like 4 aco dmt/mipt which I enjoy much more and can handle much higher doses with minimal negative subjective effects. I think subjective negative effects often vary from individual to individual. I think all dpt, dipt, and 5 meo mipt are just not for me and I have a difficult time on them compared to other tryptamines. 4 aco dmt/mipt/met and 4 ho/met are probably my favorites while 4 aco/ho dpt/dipt and 5 meo mipt/dipt are my least enjoyed and will never do again substances. The rewards do not justify the undesired subjective effects I experience.

I also drink about 1-1.2 liter's of water during these experiences in order to stay hydrated which may explain the need to pee to some extent but I usually drink 1.5-2 liters H2O per day. Drinking a liter or so of H2O in 4-6 hours is fairly normal.

 

[Solipsis]

Please provide some sources / ref links to these reports... it's the first I've heard of this and I too found 4-HO-MET and frankly every 4-HO tryptamine that I tried very light on the body.

 

[《Plasticity》]

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=93540

Most other complains are buried in threads...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17789788
" I have never felt any negative effect from mushrooms.

However after using 4-HO-MET (a psilocin analog) I suffered pretty severe kidney pains on the comedown and pissed dark and smelly urine for over a week.

This happened to me twice after using that compound. The second time it got so bad I went to the doctor after a couple of days, but they did not find anything wrong with the sample (of urine) I provided. Needless to say I will not be taking anymore of that stuff.

The experience itself was quite nice though."

http://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/535977-4-ho-met-experiences.html

"The only bad experience was kidney pains"

Solipsis do a google search on "4-ho-met kidneys" and quite a bit shows up. Something tells me that these "kidney pains" are for the most part 'explainable as back tension but there's no explaining dark urine and sharp pain in the lower to mid back.

 

[psood0nym]

Please provide some sources / ref links to these reports... it's the first I've heard of this and I too found 4-HO-MET and frankly every 4-HO tryptamine that I tried very light on the body.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it should cause kidney issues since structurally and subjectively it's so similar to other 4-substitutent tryptamine psychedelics that aren't reported to cause issues. I searched and found an Erowid report titled "Nice Compound but Sore Kidneys." In this thread from Shroomery.org tripsurfer also mentions kidney pains in reaction to 4-ho-MET, but the phrasing makes me think maybe they're the same person who submitted the Erowid report. In that post they also state:

The second time it got so bad I went to the doctor after a couple of days, but they did not find anything wrong with the sample (of urine) I provided.

5-MeO-DiPT has been associated with renal failure on its wiki page:

Rhabdomyolysis and renal failure occurred in one young man and another one died 3–4 hours after an apparent rectal overdose.[3]

. In the common causes section of the rhabdomyolysis page LSD is mentioned, but the only mention of LSD in the full text of the cited source is this:

Acute alcohol-induced rhabdomyolysis can occur after binge drinking or a sustained period of alcohol abuse, and is associated with pain and swelling of muscles, particularly the quadriceps [70]. Drugs such as D-lysergic acid diethylamide (known as LSD), sympathomimetics and phencyclidine, which induce delirium or agitation, and those that cause prolonged involuntary muscle contraction, lead to increased ATP demand and to eventual exhaustion of its energy stores [71].

Cocaine is a common cause of both traumatic and nontraumatic rhabdomyolysis. Twenty-four percent of emergency department patients presenting with cocaine-related disorders have acute rhabdomyolysis

This increased ATP demand doesn't sound like it's really a serious indirect threat to the kidneys in the case of LSD, and so if LSD doesn't really pose a danger I'm not sure how much credence should be lent to these reports implying 5-MeO-DiPT-mediated (in cases of excessive overdose) or 4-ho-MET-mediated kidney risk.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

psood0nym I assume you have personally never consumed these substances? I find I need to piss more frequently with most stimulants and psychedelic drugs. Not drinking enough water can cause dark urine as you are dehydrated but not excessively. This experience of CaptainKratom may be the result of some less than 98% purity although I doubt even 5-10% impurity would cause any major issues for the renal system, the lack of adequate hydration and or perhaps a bad reaction to the substance. It's weird but some people just have negative reactions to some substances, in some cases extreme such as an allergy. Perhaps he/she has done a little to much of late and his/her body is not handling things as well as it could. I know I get more negative subjective effects and less desirable effects the more frequently I use any substance. This is all assumption on my behalf as I have no idea of CaptainKratoms physical health and level of hydration etc. but I'd imagine it to be reasonable as he/she seems to be a responsible and intelligent individual.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I'm a small and healthy 20 year old male but that's irrelavent being that I'm not the one making these complaints. I experienced no bodyload with Metocin. I'm currently on 130mgs of 5-APB, 30mgs of metocin, and 20mgs of 2c-c and still have no complaints which too leads me to believe there was a questionable batch around that caused these renal problems.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

Metocin has had no subjective body load for me and I didn't have any weird pee... ever. I mistook your OP for having had the experience from this substance you were describing personally. Quite likely a bad batch with inferior synthesis and a few byproducts is likely the cause as you suggest. More likely than just a few individuals having unexplained dark wee for up to a week at any rate.