3-MMC daily 500mg for 2 years.Dangers?Options?

[Student76]

Hello!


Sorry im not from the U.S. but Sweden.So may be my english is not the best.

I am a chemistry student and 29.I was diagnosed with ADD(not ADHS) because I only can work or concentrate for max.
2 hours a day.

Here in Sweden you have 2 possibilities.Methylphenidat or Amphetaminsulfat(Racemic).

So first the doc tried methylphenidat dosing up to 40 mg retard.
This was ok for 2 weeks,then my thoughts startet running a million times and I became psychotic,and I startet to crash bad.
Next was Amphetaminsulfat up to 60 mg a day.There was almost no crash but 14 days later ich became psychotic again.
He wanted to combine this with a strong neuroleptica (Risperdal) and I said no.So I had to leave him.
Then I started Smoking which helped and clonazepam 2mg a day for better sleep and anxiety.
After 5 years of clonazepam i started to have a sort of severe rebound depression every evening.Antidepressiva of all kinds,and
neuroleptics did not help.I am not bipolar and if I reduce clonazepam my depression lifts,but no sleep,extrem anxiety and ADD.
I dont know why but clonazepam helped my ADD alot the first years.But know ist the cause of my depression.



I then read in a swedish forum about RC research chemicals.
I first tried 4-FA amphetamine,2-FMA,2 FA but always the same pattern 14 days later i became psychotic.


Then I tried a few cathiones.And there I saw a possible solution.
I never tried Mephedrone 4-MMC but here in sweden 3-MMC is legal.So I tried this one.
I bought a micro scale and made 100 mg capsules.This was the beginning.I take about 5 x100 mg every 4 hours
and my ADD is gone without any psychotic symptoms or crash the last 2 years.

I did liver checks and kindney,so far they are ok.I do trink lots of water.But I do not know the long term risks.
Someone said to me, in 2 years I will be dead,an my brain will be extremly damaged because this one is like MDMA ( Serotonin-Releaser)

I do not take 3 MMC for any party only just 100 mg 4-5 times a day to funktion normally. I am not extra happy or so.
But now 2 years later if I want to skip a day or two ,this is not possible because my body is feeling like sickness,vertigo,weakness
and only can lie on the couch if I do not take the drug.

So I don't know what to do.If i go on taking 3-MMC what will or can happen.Is this like a SSRI withdrawal or much worse?
If someone here has any advice i would be very grateful.Or someone has taken research chemical and can tell me
if it's extremly dangerous for me.Especially 3-MMC.I know some are neurotoxic but I don't know which ones.
At the moment I have a job in a laboratory which I will lose immediately without 3-MMC.


I don't know why I had each time a psychotic break with methylphenidate and amphetamine.
SSRI also did not work(the brain fog was much much worse).After 3 to 4 weeks on sertralin,citalopram or paroxetine I also
get extremly suicidal.
Trizyklica like amitritilyne I also had to try 8 weeks long before I got the methylphenidat, with the same reaktion.
And with something like Seroquel or Risperdal i feel like I am not alive anymore(more brain fog then with SSRI)
I crash my car the next day,in work everything doesn't funktion because i only want to sleep 18 hours a day + the extreme weight gain.

So I really dont know.Perhaps my liver an kidneys are nearly dead(i have to go to the toilett about ten times a day)
and often in the Morning before I take this 3 MMC I think how long I still will be alive.But without 3MMC I'm in
a deep depression and severe ADD and can not funktion,this problem I have since childhood.
And zyban was to weak.It helped at 600 mg,but only for 5 month,then stopped working.Well I tried almost everything.

I have lots of allergies,in childhood I took about 100 antibiotics because I always had viral infections every 4 weeks.
That was perhaps the trigger.I dont know.The beginning was in school class Nr.5.
There was a massive change in type face and I could not follow what the teacher told us.

Perhaps someone has any information about how toxic this chemical is to the body and
what a dopamine/serotonine releaser can do to the brain if you take it lets say 5 or 10 years daily?
A drug use on a german forum said to me I should try 5mg MDPV every day instead of 3-MMC? is this an option?


If someone has expierience with 3-MMC or MDPV long term would be great.
I would be greatful for every help.Without 3-MMC i would have killed myself 2 years ago.But side effects are becoming more
and more a problem.Kidney pain,heart,bloodpressure.Opiates did not work like tramadol or valoron.


Thank you very much



Sjögren

 

[turnupboss]

this is overwhelming and scary

 

[Yeetbeat]

I need to echo what turnupboss said....only louder. I can't believe I actually read 100 mg 4-5 times a day .

I don't even know what to say...but wow. Good luck sir, I hope someone can chime in with some proper advice....

 

[Shamanism]

Have you researched nootropics?
Perhaps you could use a racetam like nootropic containing stack on non work days perhaps to reduce your 3-MMC use a bit, also perhaps slightly lower / less frequent dosing if smaller doses have no effect anymore, why not only 3 times a day instead of 4-5?

Also I have read a thread on Flashback from a guy who used ridiculous like suicidal amounts of 3-MMC something like 3 ounces or half a kilo in a year. In the end he was using multiple grams a day ...He got a check up and some (liver?) values were very high. You probably have read it or you could find it much easier than me, worth finding out what this means and perhaps how to normalize / counter this effect, if you keep using this daily when you find no alternative.

 

[Black]

self-medicating with an unresearched stimulant sure is dangerous. no one knows what the dangers of 3-mmc are from occasional use, much less from long term use. another point to consider is that it's probably gonna be prohibited in forseeable time and therefore disappear from the market.
what's really curious is that you will become psychotic from all other stimulant. but then again we don't even know the mechanism of action of 3-mmc.
right now we really have no idea what could happen with long term use of this substance. it could be neurotoxic, it could be toxic to the liver, it might cause fibrosis of the heart valves, it probably increases the risk for coronary heart disease, ...

i think you should speak to a (good) doctor and discuss your problems there. there are certainly alternatives to classical stimulants (monoamine releasers) in the pharmacotherapy of add. the things that come to my mind are modafinil (a wakefulness enhancer with an as yet unknown mechanism which is completely unrelated to amphetamines) and atomoxetine (a selective reuptake inhibitor for norandrenaline). both can be effective for add and are approved medicines in the european union (though not necessarily for add, but if the traditional treatment fails most doctors will have no problem with off-label use) and therefore have a lot of research behind them, known side effects and of course are not going to disappear from the market once the government becomes aware of their existance.

 

[Student76]

Well.

I think its a risk.But better than every medication for me.And I had them all.Strattera(Psychosis,Anger)
Modafinil,crash,depression after use,no sleep.I dont think anyone here can help me.

 

[Brendles]

Help you with what? Are you trying to stop taking the cathinone or trying to find a way to do it safer? because I agree with the guy earlier that nootropics are probably worth a shot at this point. Just be careful in spite of how uncareful you are being of other substance usage issues.

 

[Student76]

I am looking for a way which is safer.
But a substance with a realeasing potential similar to 3 MMC.I read a studie that 4 MMC hat 8:10 Realtionship Serotonin/Dopamine
3-MMC 2:10 Serotonin/Dopamin.

I know if I use pure Dopamin/Noradrenalin reuptake inhibitors i get psychosis and no sleep.Never work.Almost schizophrenic after a few days.
I think its the release of serotonin from 3 mmc which balances this.
The combo tried with every SSRI,and ritalin,lisdex,strattera,Amphetamin,did not work.No way.

So ist there anything I can Do?or destroy my heart in the long run.
But better a short live than no life,thats my opinion.

Thank you.

 

[Shamanism]

How were you before tryieng any meds? compared to now? I'm not an expert on this but think some days of once every week or so are bare essentials, but someone more knowlegable might know if this is sufficient. The cardiotoxicity is worrying.

 

[Student76]

Hello shamanism.

Befor meds.For example when i was 16,i was in a konstant brain fog.It started at the age of 12.
The meds they tried on me,did not really my condition better.Now if I do not take anything like 3 MMC or Amphetamine i am a total mess,zero motivation and I
can not concentrate or work at all.I think 10 years of psycho meds gave my brainchemistry the rest.I do not believe I can make it worse with 3 MMC daily.
But most disaggree in this and other forums.Yes I try to live some days of.But then it you must think of symptoms like brain zaps,and severe vertigo.
Well I know this if you are on SSRI and miss a day or two.Discontinuation Syndrom of SSRI.
The 3-MMC only works better and effektiver than any of the SSRIs ever did.So 300 or 400mg a day(3 x 100mg each 4 hours),with a low dose betablocker
work now for three years.But well i am looking for other solutions.

 

[Shamanism]

I understand you, I too have a similar 'add' type condition and have been on several meds and have experienced receptor downregulation after longterm Concerta use (turning you into an unmotivated couch potatoe) combined with SSRI, SNRI like Effexor and I'm familliar with discontinuation syndrome, including those nasty brain zaps..

I have found Centrophenoxine to alleviate them and racetams like, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Coluracetam (very interesting mechanism of action) and noopept to be great in providing an extra moodlift and energy. And if you experience headaches Picamilon and Centrophenoxine do the trick for me. Acetylcholine synthesis seems to play an important role in all this.

Even now when I use low dose of d-amp with propanolol on tose off days when I don't take d-amp, my head seems extra foggy, but this does clear after a few days, your brain needs te readjust to the new norm. It is a matter of perspective, it feels crap I know but it is crutial to prevent downregulation and it might help you sleep a bit too.

 

[Student76]

Thanks for the privat answer shamanism.Nice that you tell me the advice with nootropics.
This I testet the years befor to no avail.

Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Coluracetam and noopept.Pramiracetam,Phenylpiracetam(well this work for a week Picamilon and Centrophenoxine make me tired. You wrote:Acetylcholine synthesis seems to play an important role in all this.Yes thats because I smoke use an e zigi and nicotin gum.There is a little effect,but this diminished over the years.I think with 3 MMC the effects also will fade in a year or so.The brain is beast.Theres no way to cheat if it works not normal or there is
to low of supply of transmitters or blood.
The best thing are the sommer month,when I do lots of sport outside.Than I can reduce drugs,benzos,3mmc and nicotine.But indoor sport works not the same why for me and now here its getting cold again.I never liked cold.Think I was born for Africa

Nice evening


Most here see only black and white like most shrinks
Understand.If you take 3 mmc for more then month and then only 100mg you are more funktional.Nothing with drugged feeling or flighing and loving the world.
I do not use it for partyies nor to have fun.Only for relief of depression and more focuse.I smoke since 10 years,drink grean macha tea,and do sports and eat no
junk food.Sorry.Benzos I take since 7 years.Hear in Sweden Bromazepam is used.I take 12 mg every evening.That relaxes my muskels,heart,and helps most time for sleep.
With out and a low dose beta blocker 1.25mg bisprolol this regimine with 3 mmc 4x 100 a day would not work.

I am looking for someone with longterm expirience,but not for those who did binges,say 2 gramm or I read 10 gramms a weekend and then stop.
I use about 10 gramms a month.On days I have no work I only use 100 mg one time a day.Without 100mg I get vertigo and brain zaps.(SSRIs discountinuation Syndrom)
5-HTP helps a little.I take 100 mgs before bed.


Thanks.Hope for more adivce from mods or People how tried it over years.
What do you think of Phenmetracine one moderator wrote to try this a few days ago? it has a slight similarity to 4MAR(4Methylaminorex)was much to strong,tried once,4 days no sleep with 5 mgs.5MDPV is an evil substance with very high psychotic tendences.Its good to be away from the market 2015.
2 MMC is to weak.I had to take 1 gramm a day to feel anything.80 euros for 5 days.Sorry i am not rich.



My vendor is reliabel and has for example phenmetricine and many others.But until know the best was 3 MMC(no depression,no psychosis,I can sleep)
But kidney,heart problems are getting more severe.I am looking forward for a substance similar to 3 - MMC ,with low side effect profil and similar effects.
Methylon for example much much harder on kidneys and heart,also MDMA.And like most here wrote 5/6 APB low dose or 5APBD is also no answer to my problems


But Thanks for many support


Thank you

 

[Student76]

Yes I mean 3F-Phenmetrazine,a good shop sells this.I do not know if it makes sense to test.MDPV is more psychotic than ritalin and all sorts of Amphetamine.Very nasty.
And Pentedrone is much harder on the body than my 3 MMC,than i can take 3 MMC for sure.
4-MAR would interesset me,or 4,4 MAR thats not scheduled.Because ist a relative from Pemolin and it elevates serotonin a little (Pubmed,wiki)
But I found no sources....Perhaps someone here hast tested 4 MAR.Can you take it daily,low dose?or is it like MDPV,a mega hammer?

 

[Shamanism]

Have you tried Modafinil?

 

[nothing87]

Student76, this is not a personal attack but you need to put some critical thought into this situation. After reading your three (possibly more) different threads about this specific matter I have some commentary/feedback. You continually ask for advice, and then proceed to dismiss any advice given to you as unscientific after you make completely off the wall claims (I need more dopamine and serotonin, X drugs don't work, I need X drug to function normally). Those who have responded to you obviously took the time to type out thoughtful and coherent responses, and you simply dismiss their commentary at face value. Why even seek advice if you will not logically analyze the pros and cons about what effect your actions will have on your body for the remainder of your life?

Here's the main problem that I see: you are continually justifying your own drug use over and over and over. This is seemingly fueled by your supposed knowledge about pharmacology, psychiatry, and chemistry. You claim to study pharmacology and fail to recognize that 5-HT2B agonism is directly linked to heart problems? I find something odd here, you should be careful and skeptical about what you put into your body, not seeking other drugs to use to combat your problems (4-FA, 6/5-AP(D)B, the FMA series, MDPV, etc.). This especially goes for drugs with a short history of usage in humans, little research into their metabolites/mechanisms of action, and no established safety profile.

I find this to be highly reckless and irresponsible, it's almost as if you have no regard for what you are potentially doing to yourself. Maybe you don't care, but from my point of view you are biased and dismiss all evidence so you can justify what you believe is right. I have noted it time and time again as I have followed the development of your post(s) on this subject. I believe you are playing with fire, it's only a matter of time before you get burned. I have been following this thread and began to construct arguments with evidence debunking several claims you have made in this thread, but I believe that would be a fruitless effort. I do not believe you can analyze evidence contrary to your opinions in any way. You are extremely dismissive and headstrong, I am not quite sure whether or not you are consciously aware of this.

I ask that you critically examine your beliefs and thoughts, put them aside, read my comment, and then reread all of the advice that former bluelighters have offered you. If you cannot do this, or simply refuse to do so, I do not know of a way that I or anyone else can assist you. Your behaviors and actions are extremely concerning and are damaging, it is readily apparent. I really do hope you can take a step back and consider what is happening before you irreparably harm yourself and are forced to live with the consequences. To quote Alexander Shulgin, “You must be careful because sometimes you bend something that doesn’t unbend.” I ask that you question your behavior and critically analyze the advice you have been given, I wish you the best possible outcome with regard to the matter at hand.

 

[Yeetbeat]

Student76, this is not a personal attack but you need to put some critical thought into this situation. After reading your three (possibly more) different threads about this specific matter I have some commentary/feedback. You continually ask for advice, and then proceed to dismiss any advice given to you as unscientific after you make completely off the wall claims (I need more dopamine and serotonin, X drugs don't work, I need X drug to function normally). Those who have responded to you obviously took the time to type out thoughtful and coherent responses, and you simply dismiss their commentary at face value. Why even seek advice if you will not logically analyze the pros and cons about what effect your actions will have on your body for the remainder of your life?

Here's the main problem that I see: you are continually justifying your own drug use over and over and over. This is seemingly fueled by your supposed knowledge about pharmacology, psychiatry, and chemistry. You claim to study pharmacology and fail to recognize that 5-HT2B agonism is directly linked to heart problems? I find something odd here, you should be careful and skeptical about what you put into your body, not seeking other drugs to use to combat your problems (4-FA, 6/5-AP(D)B, the FMA series, MDPV, etc.). This especially goes for drugs with a short history of usage in humans, little research into their metabolites/mechanisms of action, and no established safety profile.

I find this to be highly reckless and irresponsible, it's almost as if you have no regard for what you are potentially doing to yourself. Maybe you don't care, but from my point of view you are biased and dismiss all evidence so you can justify what you believe is right. I have noted it time and time again as I have followed the development of your post(s) on this subject. I believe you are playing with fire, it's only a matter of time before you get burned. I have been following this thread and began to construct arguments with evidence debunking several claims you have made in this thread, but I believe that would be a fruitless effort. I do not believe you can analyze evidence contrary to your opinions in any way. You are extremely dismissive and headstrong, I am not quite sure whether or not you are consciously aware of this.

I ask that you critically examine your beliefs and thoughts, put them aside, read my comment, and then reread all of the advice that former bluelighters have offered you. If you cannot do this, or simply refuse to do so, I do not know of a way that I or anyone else can assist you. Your behaviors and actions are extremely concerning and are damaging, it is readily apparent. I really do hope you can take a step back and consider what is happening before you irreparably harm yourself and are forced to live with the consequences. To quote Alexander Shulgin, “You must be careful because sometimes you bend something that doesn’t unbend.” I ask that you question your behavior and critically analyze the advice you have been given, I wish you the best possible outcome with regard to the matter at hand.

/thread(s)

 

[sekio]

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...y-because-of-severe-depression-Danger-Options

 

[BlueBull]

Student76, this is not a personal attack but you need to put some critical thought into this situation. After reading your three (possibly more) different threads about this specific matter I have some commentary/feedback. You continually ask for advice, and then proceed to dismiss any advice given to you as unscientific after you make completely off the wall claims (I need more dopamine and serotonin, X drugs don't work, I need X drug to function normally). Those who have responded to you obviously took the time to type out thoughtful and coherent responses, and you simply dismiss their commentary at face value. Why even seek advice if you will not logically analyze the pros and cons about what effect your actions will have on your body for the remainder of your life?

Here's the main problem that I see: you are continually justifying your own drug use over and over and over. This is seemingly fueled by your supposed knowledge about pharmacology, psychiatry, and chemistry. You claim to study pharmacology and fail to recognize that 5-HT2B agonism is directly linked to heart problems? I find something odd here, you should be careful and skeptical about what you put into your body, not seeking other drugs to use to combat your problems (4-FA, 6/5-AP(D)B, the FMA series, MDPV, etc.). This especially goes for drugs with a short history of usage in humans, little research into their metabolites/mechanisms of action, and no established safety profile.

I find this to be highly reckless and irresponsible, it's almost as if you have no regard for what you are potentially doing to yourself. Maybe you don't care, but from my point of view you are biased and dismiss all evidence so you can justify what you believe is right. I have noted it time and time again as I have followed the development of your post(s) on this subject. I believe you are playing with fire, it's only a matter of time before you get burned. I have been following this thread and began to construct arguments with evidence debunking several claims you have made in this thread, but I believe that would be a fruitless effort. I do not believe you can analyze evidence contrary to your opinions in any way. You are extremely dismissive and headstrong, I am not quite sure whether or not you are consciously aware of this.

I ask that you critically examine your beliefs and thoughts, put them aside, read my comment, and then reread all of the advice that former bluelighters have offered you. If you cannot do this, or simply refuse to do so, I do not know of a way that I or anyone else can assist you. Your behaviors and actions are extremely concerning and are damaging, it is readily apparent. I really do hope you can take a step back and consider what is happening before you irreparably harm yourself and are forced to live with the consequences. To quote Alexander Shulgin, “You must be careful because sometimes you bend something that doesn’t unbend.” I ask that you question your behavior and critically analyze the advice you have been given, I wish you the best possible outcome with regard to the matter at hand.

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly and wouldn't have been able to word it better. OP what you are proposing isn't maintainable, you are risking serious damage to yourself by using these kinds of drugs like that. Not just risking it actually, you wíll do serious damage to yourself in the long run. Please seek professional help, or additional professional help, instead of trying to self-diagnose and self-medicate.

You are heading for a train wreck and are looking for reasons to continue on your track. There are none, there's isn't an upside to this, very short-term perhaps but it will backfire in a huge way sooner or later. So what if some other substances helped you before? That's not going to help you in the long run if you damage your body in the process. You might be studying pharmacology but you neither have the experience, nor the knowledge, nor the research data to set up a treatment plan for yourself with these substances. Read nothing87's reply very carefully, it tells you everything you need to know. Please consider the advice given, we really do mean well. I wish you all the best as well, take care of yourself