3,4-MDA

[AlsoTapered]

A friend took 80kg at 3PM and now, some 9 hours later s coming down.

He compared it to a 50:50 mix of MDA and MDMA
.
His eyes are still huge and he keeps hugging us.... but by all reports he had an amazing time. Did hog the decks & had no timing although kewelio is forgiving, I didn;t ask where it came from but it was on 25mg blotters with the first page of 'Finnigan's Wake' Printed onto it.

Now, it's nasty to make even if you get the immediate precursor but as coming down he kept satinf 'fu*k MDA, fu*k mema and so on.

We gave him a valium an he's asleep.

But example 13 of the Poos reference seems worth the read.

I have NO safety information.

 

[somnilicious]

Wait.... I'm so confused. How is this different from MDA? He took 80,000grams? It came on blotter? Maybe I'm reading it wrong or there's something I'm not quite understanding.

 

[AlsoTapered]

80mg. My bad.

They were BIG blotters but still much more accurate than a pill.

It's just that along with 7,a-DMT it's a league better than MDMA. I don't think anyone will KNOW it for real unless they try one of them..... then MDA and MDMA seem tame.

Also, unless you live in nation where it's legal or at least immediate precursor is legal, you won't get to try it

We also tried p-Me AM which is purely seratogenic & m-Me AM which is like MDA.

Whatever the details 'Euphoria' (It's highlighted on that page of blotter) IS the next-gen MDMA.... but hasn't had enough testing and so I write as interesting fact, no t good idea'.

 

[G_Chem]

They would have to be stupidly large to fit 80mg. Pretty sure the average blotter can only fit 3-4mg tops (I’d need to re-check that but definitely not more than 5..). So he’d be eating a sheet of paper to get 80mg.

Don’t you have some test kits laying around?

I’d wager there is meth on them before anything else.. Definitely no MDA. Especially if you live across the pond in EU, where it’s a rarity and goes for a lot. (Average 50% more than MDMA, whereas in the states it’s usually 30-50% less.)

-GC

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well you clearly haven't made blotters with mescaline... images of which are all over the web. Almost any drug can be presented as a blotter because potency is accurate...it's just bulky.

but you have 4g of MDAR it's an unknown powder..... or (and I am not saying I agree with this) blotters where each mm2 has 1mg of product - just asan example.

 

[Esperighanto]

Well you clearly haven't made blotters with mescaline... images of which are all over the web. Almost any drug can be presented as a blotter because potency is accurate...it's just bulky.

but you have 4g of MDAR it's an unknown powder..... or (and I am not saying I agree with this) blotters where each mm2 has 1mg of product - just asan example.

That's hilarious about the mescaline blotters, I'd love to see a photo of one. I would struggle to fit a full dose of mescaline in a pressie.
And when you say 3,4-MDA, that's 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine, right? Isn't that just normal MDA? How was 25 mg active, if that's so?
Also, what is p-Me AM? Para-methoxy something? I'm very cuous about it and the m-Me AM as well. Do you know the full chemical names or CAS numbers of any of these, AlsoTapered?

 

[G_Chem]

Well you clearly haven't made blotters with mescaline... images of which are all over the web. Almost any drug can be presented as a blotter because potency is accurate...it's just bulky.

but you have 4g of MDAR it's an unknown powder..... or (and I am not saying I agree with this) blotters where each mm2 has 1mg of product - just asan example.

So how big is a mescaline blotter? The size of billboard? No not any drug..

That's hilarious about the mescaline blotters, I'd love to see a photo of one. I would struggle to fit a full dose of mescaline in a pressie.
And when you say 3,4-MDA, that's 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine, right? Isn't that just normal MDA? How was 25 mg active, if that's so?
Also, what is p-Me AM? Para-methoxy something? I'm very cuous about it and the m-Me AM as well. Do you know the full chemical names or CAS numbers of any of these, AlsoTapered?

Thank you, excellent questions and points.

-GC

 

[AlsoTapered]

That's hilarious about the mescaline blotters, I'd love to see a photo of one. I would struggle to fit a full dose of mescaline in a pressie.
And when you say 3,4-MDA, that's 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine, right? Isn't that just normal MDA? How was 25 mg active, if that's so?
Also, what is p-Me AM? Para-methoxy something? I'm very cuous about it and the m-Me AM as well. Do you know the full chemical names or CAS numbers of any of these, AlsoTapered?

Given that about 350mg of the compound is needed to produce a full-on mescaline trip & knowing that DOB blotters with 5mg on each were usually 9 x 9 mm, I calculate that about 7.5 cm squares would be about right. Roughly the size of one of the original square Post It notes.

Exactly how one would apply the dose raises it's own interesting issues. I cannot be the only person who heard the old story where people refer to strong LSD blotters as being 'double dipped'. Well, I once helped a Dutch friend convert pure (and I'm sure we know the 'special test') liquid-crystal LSD (so called because the warmth of ones hands on the (brown) container would melt the product) and methanol, a dark room and about 4 days were required as we applied a single drop to each square.

My friend didn't/doesn't use drugs of any kind (not even caffeine) and was concerned about all the stories of people tripping while producing blotters so he obtained a supply of neuroleptics... and TBH, I didn't touch them and after 4 days my friend was a mess - neuroleptics REALLY seem to screw people up (and better ones are known and known to work bud didn't reach market due to a commercial reason - if you want to know the story, PM me).

Originally we had both p-Me aminorex and m-Me aminorex produced. The former was very mild and we started to think we had made a mistake. Then we tried m-Me aminorex and that turned out to be a stimulant which MAY have had some SERT activity, but it just felt like a stimulant.

It was actually my wife who tried mixing them 50:50 and said 'I THINK I have found the answer'. After about 40 people tried various ratios, it turned out that a 2:1 p/m ratio was, to quote her 'like MDA on steroids. THEN she pointed out that example 13 of the George Ireland Poos patent was for 3,4-MD aminorex... and thus MDAR was produced and shown to be indistinguishable from MDA... and legal at the time.

So the IDIOT (he knows who he is) had someone make p,4-dimethylaminorex that he graced with the name 'Serotonia'. My wife sampled it and said it was more or less identical to p-Me aminorex. Sadly, UK law was constantly banning things and our first (and sole) batch of MDAR was seized by the police in spite of it being legal. After 6 months it's possible to sue to get your material back but they knew the PSA law would come into force... so we never got it back.

BTW you cannot use the 'simple' KOCN route used to produce trans 4-MAR (and ring-substituted derivatives thereof). What you end up with is a substituted urea. Luckily a 1970s East German patent shows that the urea can be cyclized into (ring substituted) aminorex simply by heating in concentrated HCl. The problem is that a mixture of products are formed and not all of them can be removed using an A/B (or B/A in this case).

It's a shame because it really DOES offer an alternative to MDA. I would also add that (R) AMT is also a good substitute (as you know, racemic AET was sold AS MDA in the early 1980s BUT since only the (S) isomer of AMT has 5HT2a affinity, resolution offers a great alternative... one isomer is like MDA, the other is like LSD) but if you want the VERY bet, (R) a,7-dimethyl tryptamine (1-(7-methyl-1H-indol-3-yl)propan-2-amine) is ALSO like MDA... but 40mg is a BIG dose and the (S) isomer produces interesting effects. Hart to put into words but I guess 'a psychedelic with no visuals would be the best I can do for you. I'm pretty sure some other compounds have also been described this way. Your thinking is JUST like thinking on LSD but your vision isn't impacted.

Fast&bulbous is the expert in the detailed workings of psychedelics so if you want the details, I recommend you discuss it with them.

As always, if someone has references supporting or diverging from my own experiences, I am always glad to read them.

 

[G_Chem]

Given that about 350mg of the compound is needed to produce a full-on mescaline trip & knowing that DOB blotters with 5mg on each were usually 9 x 9 mm, I calculate that about 7.5 cm squares would be about right. Roughly the size of one of the original square Post It notes.

Exactly how one would apply the dose raises it's own interesting issues. I cannot be the only person who heard the old story where people refer to strong LSD blotters as being 'double dipped'. Well, I once helped a Dutch friend convert pure (and I'm sure we know the 'special test') liquid-crystal LSD (so called because the warmth of ones hands on the (brown) container would melt the product) and methanol, a dark room and about 4 days were required as we applied a single drop to each square.

My friend didn't use drugs of any kind and was concerned about all the stories of people tripping while producing blotters so he obtained a supply of neuroleptics... and TBH, I didn't touch them and after 4 days my friend was a mess - neuroleptics REALLY seem to screw people up (and better ones are known and known to work bud didn't reach market due to a commercial reason - if you want to know the story, PM me).

Originally we had both p-Me aminorex and m-Me aminorex produced. The former was very mild and we started to think we had made a mistake. Then we tried m-Me aminorex and that turned out to be a stimulant which MAY have had some SERT activity, but it just felt like a stimulant.

It was actually my wife who tried mixing them 50:50 and said 'I THINK I have found the answer'. After about 40 people tried various ratios, it turned out that a 2:1 p/m ratio was, to quote her 'like MDA on steroids. THEN she pointed out that example 13 of the George Ireland Poos patent was for 3,4-MD aminorex... and thus MDAR was produced and shown to be indistinguishable from MDA... and legal at the time.

So the IDIOT (he knows who he is) had someone make p,4-dimethylaminorex that he graced with the name 'Serotonia'. My wife sampled it and said it was more or less identical to p-Me aminorex. Sadly, UK law was constantly banning things and our first (and sole) batch of MDAR was seized by the police in spite of it being legal. After 6 months it's possible to sue to get your material back but they knew the PSA law would come into force... so we never got it back.

BTW you cannot use the 'simple' KOCN route used to produce trans 4-MAR (and ring-substituted derivatives thereof). What you end up with is a substituted urea. Luckily a 1970s East German patent shows that the urea can be cyclized into (ring substituted) aminorex simply by heating in concentrated HCl. The problem is that a mixture of products are formed and not all of them can be removed using an A/B (or B/A in this case).

It's a shame because it really DOES offer an alternative to MDA. I would also add that (R) AMT is also a good substitute (as you know, racemic AET was sold AS MDA in the early 1980s BUT since only the (S) isomer of AMT has 5HT2a affinity, resolution offers a great alternative... one isomer is like MDA, the other is like LSD) but if you want the VERY bet, (R) a,7-dimethyl tryptamine (1-(7-methyl-1H-indol-3-yl)propan-2-amine) is ALSO like MDA... but 40mg is a BIG dose and the (S) isomer produces interesting effects. Hart to put into words but I guess 'a psychedelic with no visuals would be the best I can do for you. I'm pretty sure some other compounds have also been described this way. Your thinking is JUST like thinking on LSD but your vision isn't impacted.

Fast&bulbous is the expert in the detailed workings of psychedelics so if you want the details, I recommend you discuss it with them.

As always, if someone has references supporting or diverging from my own experiences, I am always glad to read them.

Let’s be real man, when have you ever seen anyone eat a blotter the size of a post it note? The bitterness alone of the mescaline would make that ROA brutal compared to just eating a capsule.

-GC

 

[Esperighanto]

Let’s be real man, when have you ever seen anyone eat a blotter the size of a post it note? The bitterness alone of the mescaline would make that ROA brutal compared to just eating a capsule.

-GC

I agree with this personally, I've done test runs with 1/2", 3/4" & 1" and 1" felt like some abject clown shit, but 3/4" is a compromise I find necessary for labeling purposes. Imo people assume all blotter to be d-LSD, so if it's not that, make it big enough to print a dose and label on the back.

Given that about 350mg of the compound is needed to produce a full-on mescaline trip & knowing that DOB blotters with 5mg on each were usually 9 x 9 mm, I calculate that about 7.5 cm squares would be about right. Roughly the size of one of the original square Post It notes.

Exactly how one would apply the dose raises it's own interesting issues. I cannot be the only person who heard the old story where people refer to strong LSD blotters as being 'double dipped'. Well, I once helped a Dutch friend convert pure (and I'm sure we know the 'special test') liquid-crystal LSD (so called because the warmth of ones hands on the (brown) container would melt the product) and methanol, a dark room and about 4 days were required as we applied a single drop to each square.

My friend didn't/doesn't use drugs of any kind (not even caffeine) and was concerned about all the stories of people tripping while producing blotters so he obtained a supply of neuroleptics... and TBH, I didn't touch them and after 4 days my friend was a mess - neuroleptics REALLY seem to screw people up (and better ones are known and known to work bud didn't reach market due to a commercial reason - if you want to know the story, PM me).

Originally we had both p-Me aminorex and m-Me aminorex produced. The former was very mild and we started to think we had made a mistake. Then we tried m-Me aminorex and that turned out to be a stimulant which MAY have had some SERT activity, but it just felt like a stimulant.

It was actually my wife who tried mixing them 50:50 and said 'I THINK I have found the answer'. After about 40 people tried various ratios, it turned out that a 2:1 p/m ratio was, to quote her 'like MDA on steroids. THEN she pointed out that example 13 of the George Ireland Poos patent was for 3,4-MD aminorex... and thus MDAR was produced and shown to be indistinguishable from MDA... and legal at the time.

So the IDIOT (he knows who he is) had someone make p,4-dimethylaminorex that he graced with the name 'Serotonia'. My wife sampled it and said it was more or less identical to p-Me aminorex. Sadly, UK law was constantly banning things and our first (and sole) batch of MDAR was seized by the police in spite of it being legal. After 6 months it's possible to sue to get your material back but they knew the PSA law would come into force... so we never got it back.

BTW you cannot use the 'simple' KOCN route used to produce trans 4-MAR (and ring-substituted derivatives thereof). What you end up with is a substituted urea. Luckily a 1970s East German patent shows that the urea can be cyclized into (ring substituted) aminorex simply by heating in concentrated HCl. The problem is that a mixture of products are formed and not all of them can be removed using an A/B (or B/A in this case).

It's a shame because it really DOES offer an alternative to MDA. I would also add that (R) AMT is also a good substitute (as you know, racemic AET was sold AS MDA in the early 1980s BUT since only the (S) isomer of AMT has 5HT2a affinity, resolution offers a great alternative... one isomer is like MDA, the other is like LSD) but if you want the VERY bet, (R) a,7-dimethyl tryptamine (1-(7-methyl-1H-indol-3-yl)propan-2-amine) is ALSO like MDA... but 40mg is a BIG dose and the (S) isomer produces interesting effects. Hart to put into words but I guess 'a psychedelic with no visuals would be the best I can do for you. I'm pretty sure some other compounds have also been described this way. Your thinking is JUST like thinking on LSD but your vision isn't impacted.

Fast&bulbous is the expert in the detailed workings of psychedelics so if you want the details, I recommend you discuss it with them.

As always, if someone has references supporting or diverging from my own experiences, I am always glad to read them.

I didn't realize that the A stood for aminorex. I've long been curious about those compounds but highly suspicious of their capacity to induce heart valve defects, given I already have an arrhythmia and use ephedrine daily I don't want to push my luck too much haha.

Have you tried other alkyl groups on that DMT analog? I bet a DiPT/MiPT version would be fascinating! Did this DMT relative take a normal tryptamine route from indole/tryptophan/I3A or was it made from another starting reagent?

 

[AlsoTapered]

Let’s be real man, when have you ever seen anyone eat a blotter the size of a post it note? The bitterness alone of the mescaline would make that ROA brutal compared to just eating a capsule.

-GC

Yes - I've only ever seen encapsulated escaline (which truly is a LOT better than mescaline & would only require a blotter the size of a bus ticket) and Kokopelli (the Smart Shop on Womerstraat in Amsterdam) grew the appropriate cacti in the window. People bought 1 cm think pieces. The people who staffed the place would simply cut out a 1cm part of the plant and simply place the top part back onto the bottom part and it would regrow within a few weeks.

I never really tried it. One of my friends who worked there let me taste a tiny sliver and a retched.

Yes indeed, escaline is a boon to the world of psychedelics. I believe fast&bulbous noted that if certain cacti are given a diet containing 5-(2-aminoethyl)-2-ethoxybenzene-1,3-diol, they will conveniently produce escaline. Similarly, certain plants that produce DMT & 5-MeO DMT can easily be convinced to produce say 7,N,N-TMT and variants with different amine functions. I believe N-methyl-N-ethyl tryptamine is the most successful.

Esperighanto

The problem (as we saw it) was that aminorex was prescribed to be taken every single day for MONTHS but for 99.9% of MDMA users, their usage pattern is utterly different. I believe MDMA also has significant 5HT2a affinity but I am not aware of the very specific damage such activity causes.

BUT I do remember reading about a family (mother, father, son) who were producing 4MAR. They were caught and all 3 were in the symptomatic stage of heart damage,

They used the infamous KOCN route. They simply made it known that they were willing to pay double the sticker price for unopened boxes of pseudoephedrine. MOST of the people who provided the pseudoephedrine accepted payment in 4MAR and the pattern of supply was one guy with a van filling it with meth addicts and simply driving around smurfing every pharmacy within 100 miles. The son had in place a system by which he received phone calls on an agreed series of public phone boxes many miles from their operation.

By all accounts they had been doing it for over a year before the excess sales of pseudoephedrine were noted and due to him NOT standing around with 50mg wraps of 4MAR it proved impossible to arrest him but he was followed and what do you know - their was a lab in the barn. It wasn't that big because the 4MAR meant that 2 made product while the third slept. I mean it was only a 5l reaction vessel...but 4MAR IS very potent and long-acting.

On a semi-related note a guy was found dead in a mid-west motel room. The police found 45g of 4MAR, 150 phenobarbitone tablets and a 'large' sum of money. I don't think they ever discovered where the 4MAR had come from so MAYBE the farmers were smart enough to employ someone who sold their product far, far from the site of production? I mean, the use of public phones suggests some level of counter-surveillance.

I regret I don't know much about stimulants because the chemistry is mostly simple and if the US producers/distributors are similar to the European producers & distributors, it's not an area which I would ever venture in to. ​

McN5652 & JNJ-7925476 strongly suggest that an MDA-like compound with activity in the DOB range of mass is possible.

Notice that the McN compound uses a p-thiomethoxy while the JNJ uses a p-ethynyl. Well, the Wiki pages USED to have a complete QSAR taken from the patents... but like the 617 drugs whose patents I added, ALL of that information has been removed AND if you look through the older versions... WAS NEVER THERE. Another good reason not to trust Wiki. Evidently part of MTI (Mastering The Internet), a suite of utilities designed to reroute the source of data is devoted to specifically devoted to preventing a whole generation from finding the original data,

I simply use the Japanese site 'Drug Future' which DOES contain all of the correct original patents and papers.

PS sorry the lower part of this post is all in bold. I don't know if it's a fault in the software that runs the BL BBS but after a name, it REFUSES to switch from bold...
​

 

[Rectify]

Escaline > Mescaline.

Really?

 

[Esperighanto]

Yes - I've only ever seen encapsulated escaline (which truly is a LOT better than mescaline & would only require a blotter the size of a bus ticket) and Kokopelli (the Smart Shop on Womerstraat in Amsterdam) grew the appropriate cacti in the window. People bought 1 cm think pieces. The people who staffed the place would simply cut out a 1cm part of the plant and simply place the top part back onto the bottom part and it would regrow within a few weeks.

I never really tried it. One of my friends who worked there let me taste a tiny sliver and a retched.

Yes indeed, escaline is a boon to the world of psychedelics. I believe fast&bulbous noted that if certain cacti are given a diet containing 5-(2-aminoethyl)-2-ethoxybenzene-1,3-diol, they will conveniently produce escaline. Similarly, certain plants that produce DMT & 5-MeO DMT can easily be convinced to produce say 7,N,N-TMT and variants with different amine functions. I believe N-methyl-N-ethyl tryptamine is the most successful.

Esperighanto​

​

The problem (as we saw it) was that aminorex was prescribed to be taken every single day for MONTHS but for 99.9% of MDMA users, their usage pattern is utterly different. I believe MDMA also has significant 5HT2a affinity but I am not aware of the very specific damage such activity causes.​

​

BUT I do remember reading about a family (mother, father, son) who were producing 4MAR. They were caught and all 3 were in the symptomatic stage of heart damage,​

​

They used the infamous KOCN route. They simply made it known that they were willing to pay double the sticker price for unopened boxes of pseudoephedrine. MOST of the people who provided the pseudoephedrine accepted payment in 4MAR and the pattern of supply was one guy with a van filling it with meth addicts and simply driving around smurfing every pharmacy within 100 miles. The son had in place a system by which he received phone calls on an agreed series of public phone boxes many miles from their operation. ​

​

By all accounts they had been doing it for over a year before the excess sales of pseudoephedrine were noted and due to him NOT standing around with 50mg wraps of 4MAR it proved impossible to arrest him but he was followed and what do you know - their was a lab in the barn. It wasn't that big because the 4MAR meant that 2 made product while the third slept. I mean it was only a 5l reaction vessel...but 4MAR IS very potent and long-acting.​

​

On a semi-related note a guy was found dead in a mid-west motel room. The police found 45g of 4MAR, 150 phenobarbitone tablets and a 'large' sum of money. I don't think they ever discovered where the 4MAR had come from so MAYBE the farmers were smart enough to employ someone who sold their product far, far from the site of production? I mean, the use of public phones suggests some level of counter-surveillance.​

​

I regret I don't know much about stimulants because the chemistry is mostly simple and if the US producers/distributors are similar to the European producers & distributors, it's not an area which I would ever venture in to. ​

McN5652 & JNJ-7925476 strongly suggest that an MDA-like compound with activity in the DOB range of mass is possible.​

​

Notice that the McN compound uses a p-thiomethoxy while the JNJ uses a p-ethynyl. Well, the Wiki pages USED to have a complete QSAR taken from the patents... but like the 617 drugs whose patents I added, ALL of that information has been removed AND if you look through the older versions... WAS NEVER THERE. Another good reason not to trust Wiki. Evidently part of MTI (Mastering The Internet), a suite of utilities designed to reroute the source of data is devoted to specifically devoted to preventing a whole generation from finding the original data,​

​

I simply use the Japanese site 'Drug Future' which DOES contain all of the correct original patents and papers.​

​

PS sorry the lower part of this post is all in bold. I don't know if it's a fault in the software that runs the BL BBS but after a name, it REFUSES to switch from bold...​

​

I just really doubt you came across a drug like the JNJ of McN compounds without having it come straight from a pretty wizardly clandestine chemist, those do not seem like simple things to make, though I've yet to read the literature on them.

Have you ever tried 7,N-N-DMT? If so, how is it?

And I'd love to know of the source of the escaline cactus thing, that would be huge if it's true and replicable. You may be interested to know that isoquinolines present in some peyote plants are related to but not crazy similar to that JNJ compound. There's a certain sparkle to peyote compared to mescaline in my two experiences with them that felt like a different, though related drug. Like most things psychedelic, it's tough to articulate.

 

[Esperighanto]

Escaline > Mescaline.

Really?

I could see this being the case though I've never done it (escaline). When people take 80-100mg in trip reports, it seems to be more akin to LSD in intensity than mescaline's notoriously subtle experience.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Who ON EARTH would attempt to produce those compounds in a home lab? They are legal, so hire a 'fine chemical' company to produce a sample
.
If it's a success then employ a chemical engineer to optimize the synthesis and resolution. Then, with the optimized route to hand (i.e. paid for) MANY chemical companies would be able to produce them.

If/when the law changes, slightly modify the product.

I bet the benzofuran (see 5/6 (M)APB would produce very long-lived homologues. Nobody has tried swapping the O of the benzofuran for an S. Given the potency, is MAOI activity LIKELY to be an issue.

When a ring-substituted benzene is swapped for a benzofuran... HOW does on define the scaffold? Even using Markush structures it would be problematic.

But as I have pointed out elsewhere, just get a supplier to provide the inactive an uncontrolled immediate precursors. I even gave U-47700 as an example. ONE STEP, quantitative yield, common solvent, room temperature.

The MOST complex RC I (re)designed was pyrazolam - which is made from phenazepam in 2 steps (amide --> thioamide, acetyl hydrazine to form triazolo ring).

MDAR? The Chinese provide the amino-alcohol so BrCN is 1 step or KOCN to substituted urea then reflux in HCl to product.

NOBODY has EVER produced an RC that required more than 3 steps and in truth, half of mine were 1 step, the other half were 2.

Don't forget that almost all RCs are based on compounds first made in the 1960s or 1970s and organic chemistry has come a LONG way. Much simpler, cheaper, safer and higher yielding routes are now known so FORGET the patent route(s).

I must write proper reports for the others - here it would be too bulky. But never forget that just like ketamine and MD(M)A, AMT, AET and their derivatives are also chiral and like ketamine and MD(M)A the two isomers have significantly different actions.

When I began working for the RC company, one of the very first things I asked a Chinese supplier to do was to resolve AMT. One isomer (the vastly more potent one) is a 5HT2b ligand while the other is a reuptake inhibitor like mild MDMA. Don't forget that racemic AET was sold AS MDMA. The story IS on the web.

But after reading the Upjohn patents from the 1960s they discovered that 7-methyl AET was x10 more potent as an entactgen BUT was an MAOI. But I also noticed that at no point did they resolve the isomers. So, with the knowledge above, it became apparent that a,7-DMT was a good target BUT it would need to be resolved.

I HAVE previously posted ot this at great length but the 7 overlays the para position of a PEA, the N of the indole overlays the meta position.

I PRESUME that is why 5-MeO DMT is so potent. It's overlaying 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine... and JUST like 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine, it drastically increases BP (which is why I do not touch them). But consider taking that 2,5 pattern remembering that the 7 overlays the 4. Now, the space is limited so a methyl or small halogen will fit so -F works (but apparently is neurotoxic), -CH3 fits... and I'm not aware of anyone trying the -Cl.

It's 3AM,I'm so tired. But I HAVE posted ALL of this before with diagrams, references and all the bells and whistles people expect from my posts... so it IS there if you look.