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25i question

Sure, all drugs are dangerous. But all drugs don´t share the same degree of risks.

Comparing NBOMe´s with injecting heroine or cocaine is so totally wrong for so many reasons, they being completely different kinds of drugs for one. Different pharmacology, different method of action, different risks. People that inject heroin or cocaine are mostly self-destructive aswell imo, and taking psychedelics shouldn´t be self-destructive.

Also, if you want to experience injected heroin or cocaine, there really isn´t any safe alternatives that comes close. Not so with the NBOMe´s. There´s plenty of alternatives, and many of them even qualitatively better, in many peoples opinion.

A better analogy would be to say that NBOMe´s are to psychedelics, what PMA and PMMA are to empathogens.

The NBOMe class of drugs are the most dangerous psychedelics we know, that is a fact. (maybe except the dragonfly´s) and basically every other psychedelic out there is safer.

I personally think, that people who think they can take NBOMes safely are conceited and deluded. No one is infallible. Mess up your dosing when you take NBOMe´s and you die. It´s really that simple.


@a12mcmullin, this is a harm reduction site, and when it comes to NBOMe´s the ultimate harm reduction is to disuade people from taking them. But I saw your questions about how to dose it on blotter in another thread, and I must really urge you not to do this. It´s actually very dangerous if you´re not 100% sure what your doing, and you don´t sound like are. Instead you should use volumetric dosing. You can read all about it here: The Big and Dandy Volumetric Liquid Measurement thread

And remember to have some one else to double check your math several times over.

If you´re looking for LSD-like legal RC´s, then 1-P-LSD is probably what your looking for. Otherwise other lysergamides like AL-LAD comes close. Or a low dose of any phenethylamine like 2C-B/C/D/E/P mixed with a low dose of any tryptamine like 4-ho/aco-DMT/DIPT/MIPT/MET can most certainly give LSD a run for it´s money.
 
a12mcmullin said:
Plenty of people die using cocaine man, way more then off 25-i. Plus cocaine will cost you thousands of dollars once the addiction gets bad. Im no dealer anyways, just stating a fact.
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I don´t think this is true, by the way. Think about it. Many, many more people use Cocaine everyday Worldwide, than NBOMe´s, which are still kind of a niche psychedelic for those who know.

It´s obviously impossible to make a statistic like that, because it´s impossible to get the data needed, but I´m absolutely sure that 25I-NBOMe has actually killed more people comparing dose per dose taken, than cocaine has, counting since the time 25I was put for sale the first time in 2010. But my claim doesn´t make sense either, as I said, these 2 drugs aren´t even the same kind, and they are dosed way differently, and have different dangers......

What a nonsensical comparison :)
 
A nonsense comparison? Educate yourself man, according to ww. Drugfreee.org cocaine and Heroin continue to kill 200,000 each year in the United States. You think 25i kills 200,000 each year? As of April 2014 there were seven 25i related deaths, five in the United States and two in Australia. Cocaine and Heroin are by far the big killers in the drug world.
 
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Fagott said:
Sure, all drugs are dangerous. But all drugs don´t share the same degree of risks.

Comparing NBOMe´s with injecting heroine or cocaine is so totally wrong for so many reasons, they being completely different kinds of drugs for one. Different pharmacology, different method of action, different risks. People that inject heroin or cocaine are mostly self-destructive aswell imo, and taking psychedelics shouldn´t be self-destructive.

Also, if you want to experience injected heroin or cocaine, there really isn´t any safe alternatives that comes close. Not so with the NBOMe´s. There´s plenty of alternatives, and many of them even qualitatively better, in many peoples opinion.

A better analogy would be to say that NBOMe´s are to psychedelics, what PMA and PMMA are to empathogens.

The NBOMe class of drugs are the most dangerous psychedelics we know, that is a fact. (maybe except the dragonfly´s) and basically every other psychedelic out there is safer.

I personally think, that people who think they can take NBOMes safely are conceited and deluded. No one is infallible. Mess up your dosing when you take NBOMe´s and you die. It´s really that simple.


@a12mcmullin, this is a harm reduction site, and when it comes to NBOMe´s the ultimate harm reduction is to disuade people from taking them. But I saw your questions about how to dose it on blotter in another thread, and I must really urge you not to do this. It´s actually very dangerous if you´re not 100% sure what your doing, and you don´t sound like are. Instead you should use volumetric dosing. You can read all about it here: The Big and Dandy Volumetric Liquid Measurement thread

And remember to have some one else to double check your math several times over.

If you´re looking for LSD-like legal RC´s, then 1-P-LSD is probably what your looking for. Otherwise other lysergamides like AL-LAD comes close. Or a low dose of any phenethylamine like 2C-B/C/D/E/P mixed with a low dose of any tryptamine like 4-ho/aco-DMT/DIPT/MIPT/MET can most certainly give LSD a run for it´s money.
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Did you bother to check the date when I asked how to make blotter versus the date when I asked about other choices of chems? Im currently exploring other choices right now so the first half of your post is invalid obviously.
 
Kl519 said:
You weren't asking me specifically, so I chose not to answer for him/her. And why are you getting so sensitive about my post when I was trying to be civil? Aka that wasn't a rip at all. I'm just genuinely curious as to why people choose to take nbomes when there are so many other RCs that are safer, and arguably have better effects.

Lsd is one of them, as well as the other lysergamide derivatives from what I've read, but I haven't tried them myself. If you like the 6 hour duration chems, then there are the many different trypts and phens of which there are too many to list.
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I can't find LSD, Im 45 and don't know anybody that still sells LSD. I'm looking for better and safer alternatives now. I puke everytime off morning glory or shrooms so they are out of the question.
 
LSZ and AL-LAD would be too good options in my opinion to be close to LSD. Otherwise 4-HO-MET might be nice. Or 4-AcO-DMT. Although I don't have experience with that personally.

And don't take it too personally. People really are just trying to help you out and keep you as safe as possible.
 
Indeed, everyone in the psych/substance community needs to be as safe as possible and help everyone out with info and experiences. Nobody wants to see someone become a stat.

The above options sound good. Personally, I like 4-HO-MiPT (miprocin) a lot and can't recommend it enough. Plus all of the other 4 sub trypts have good reviews as well. And like Fagott said, the 2Cx phens are praised for their effects and safety profile. You should have a lot to choose from, which is a good thing.
 
Well if he can't get LSD, then he prolly can't find 2c-@

Even 4 subs are getting harder to come by.....everyone is going to bitcoin.....I still have yet to jump on that wagon....I'm still weary of it ......as much as I've researched it I just don't trust it
 
If he can find nbomes, he should be able to find some 4 subs at least. 2Cs...hmm, I did have a difficult time finding some of them, but others seem to get them pretty easily. Just assuming from the sheer amount of user reports on BL.

That 1P-LSD seems to be easily available at the moment, as well as a few other lysergamides. I'd actually want to acquire some of them myself if I hadn't had my fill already. But really, there's no excuse for using nbomes for lack of availability. The number of alternatives are too many to not be able to find at least one or two.
 
a12mcmullin said:
A nonsense comparison? Educate yourself man, according to ww. Drugfreee.org cocaine and Heroin continue to kill 200,000 each year in the United States. You think 25i kills 200,000 each year? As of April 2014 there were seven 25i related deaths, five in the United States and two in Australia. Cocaine and Heroin are by far the big killers in the drug world.
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Sigh 8) You didn´t understand a Word of my post, did you? Read it again please, and think about it some more. Actually.........nevermind, I´m sure most people reading the thread understand why the comparison is nonsense, as I explained it.

Edit: And there actually have been much more than 7 deaths from NBOMe´s, because there is no central place that keeps a score of all fatalities Worldwide, so the body count is currently unknown. I live in a small country in northern Europe and we just had our own local NBOMe fatality here, and that´s not on erowid or any other website, and it won´t be unless some one takes the time to report it to them.

a12mcmullin said:
Did you bother to check the date when I asked how to make blotter versus the date when I asked about other choices of chems? Im currently exploring other choices right now so the first half of your post is invalid obviously.
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8( Okay fine, whatever, sorry you didn´t like the help I tried to offer you. I can promise you it won´t happen again.

You claim to be 45 years old, but behave like a Little kid. Not saying that to offend you, but because it´s true.
 
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Indeed, what's most important is that proportions should be accounted for, as well as ROAs. Although there aren't any hard facts/statistics, just looking at the safety profile of both leads me to believe nbomes are worse.

Iow, I'd snort coke before I'd take an nbome. Even though I swore I wouldn't insufflate anything, I'd still rather do that than get nbombed.
 
Anyone who would try to say cocaine or heroin is either better or safer is crazy. Rehabs are full of cocaine and heroin addiction where people have either overdosed or lost everything. I myself have lost at least 5 friends to these two drugs. Talk about steering people the wrong direction, intentionally or not. As far as 2c is concerned, no my vendor does not carry it, nor does he carry doc. He does carry 1p-lsd though and i ordered some last night to try out.
 
I do think heroin is really dangerous, considering it needs to be IV/IMed and lots of people do die from it, as well as get extremely addicted to it. But nbomes are probably close to its inherent risk of death, especially for people who haven't tried it yet and wouldn't know how they react to it. The sticky on the main page of PD explains a lot, you can't miss it.

Coke should be relatively safer physically. Yeah they might go to rehab and live a crappy life during that phase, but they haven't lost their lives. Taking nbomes are really like playing Russian roulette with your life, even for those who have used them before at higher doses.

This isn't to say people who use nbomes are automatically going to die from normal doses. Plenty of people are doing fine. But after learning about them and what they do inside the body, it is acutely toxic to the cns. 1 out of 3 people have hypertension or are susceptible to getting it, and there's a high chance they could die from just one nbome trip.

Anyway, I don't want to argue about this all day. People here just don't want to see a fellow psych user die. If nbomes were as safe as lsd or a lot of other tryptamines/phenethylamines, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.
 
a12mcmullin said:
Anyone who would try to say cocaine or heroin is either better or safer is crazy. Rehabs are full of cocaine and heroin addiction where people have either overdosed or lost everything. I myself have lost at least 5 friends to these two drugs. Talk about steering people the wrong direction, intentionally or not. As far as 2c is concerned, no my vendor does not carry it, nor does he carry doc. He does carry 1p-lsd though and i ordered some last night to try out.
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I like how you keep on commenting and repeating the same thing, while you clearly haven´t understood the point of what is being said :)

No one is saying that cocaine or heroin is safe. No one is trying to steer anyone in any wrong direction.

oranges and bananas..........end of topic.
 
Grinders Kiefers said:
Sorry, I misinterpreted what you were saying, but those two statements don't really make sense in the same sentence. How is it simultaneously not for amateurs, yet also not for anyone who wants to push the limits? I'm still not sure what you're getting at calling 25I an "advanced psychedelic", you don't have to push the limits by taking insanely high doses of any psychedelic to have an enjoyable experience, and a majority of them come with little to no risk of fatal overdose. 7-14g of mushrooms is a very high dose and nobody without a lot of experience should go that high, but regardless, it will not kill you.
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Yeah, weadazoid is kind of an idiot but enjoys his NBOMe for some reason.
 
a12mcmullin said:
I can't find LSD, Im 45 and don't know anybody that still sells LSD. I'm looking for better and safer alternatives now. I puke everytime off morning glory or shrooms so they are out of the question.
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Real simple. Dark net markets, Bitcoin
 
But it's not simple for non computer savvy folks....bitcoin wallets, purchasing, and laudryong all of that with the fear of losing your money

Plus PGP encryption and learning TAILS is not simple in the least
 
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