1=0 or God is Everything and Nothingness

Void, I think you were asking Transcendance, but let me give you what I believe to be the answer to your question.
All the empirical evidence we can gain from the world is a result of our five senses. Unfortunately, the senses are faulty. (For example, seeing one thing from a distance and realizing upon a closer look that it is something else entirely)
Because of this, all we can know is what is probable. It is probable that I exist, because I think, I feel, I wake up in the morning. But it is not provable. I could be someone's dream.
So when we want to realize what is most likely true, we take the information we can glean from our senses and we apply logic to it. I have seen the sun every day of my life, therefor it seems most likely to me that when I wake up in the morning the sun will rise once again.
When applying this to matters of religion, we really don't have a lot to go on. My opinions for why there is a God and that God is Everything in existence, may seem the most logical conclusion, but to someone else it all appears as coincedence.
All we can do is come up with our own personal set of beliefs and try not to infringe on others rights to believe as they want.
Hope that helped.
Love,
Pure
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Intelligence is not best measured by the answers you have but by the questions that you ask
 
sorry to be the ignoramous but what
does 'pantheistic' exactly mean?
all-encompassing?
(sorry i only own a french dictionary)
also your personal definition would be relevant to this discussion.
in regards to the original subject heading 1=0, wouldnt what you are saying be more appropriately described by infinity=zero?
i've toyed with this concept in regards to the finite universe with no boundaries introduced to me by hawking's book
luv
~
redface.gif
 
BTW -puristlove - i like your post - i am busy for the next couple of days and can only give knee jerk reponses - when i have more time i will respond in a thoughtful manner
 
Bluelight is acting Funny, so if this shows up three or four times I am sorry: ),I did make one addition this time before I sent so check the paragraph on supraconciousness.
Panthiesm is a belief that God is everything that exists.
Panthiest thought is divided into two schools. One is that God is an energy or force pervading all things. Like the force in Star Wars.
The other school believes that God is physically everything in the universe.
My personal belief is a combination of both. I believe that all matter,at its most basic form is made of energy that is God's thought... (Play with that idea a little while)
I also believe that we exist with several different levels of awareness all happening at once.
The first level of awareness is conciousness. This level makes the choices we realize we make, for the reasons we realize we are making them. I choose to go to the library because I want to borrow a book.
The second level of awareness is the subconcious, at this level we make choices without realizing we have made them, or for reasons we are not aware of conciously.
I go to the library because something in my past has conditioned me to desire a book at this time.
The third level of awareness is superconciousness, also known as the soul. This level of awareness makes choices about things in our life that we dont even realize we have control of.
I go to the library because at an early age my superconciousness chose for my mother to take me to the library once a week and made a habit out of it.
(The rabbit hole gets deeper, pause, ponder and continue with a deep breathe: ) )
The final level of awareness is supraconciousness or God Awareness. This is the All Is One experience. It is God creating the universe perpetually so that God can experience being through Godself.
(Say that three times fast)
So I chose for my mother (who is part of myself) to go take me to the library once a week so that I would desire to go later, so that thinking I wanted a book I would go to the library because as God I wanted to experience wanting a book and going to the library. (Whew! fun huh?)
Anyways bare in mind that all of this is my speculation based on personal experience and is really quite unprovable.
Enjoy the mind games
Love,
Pure
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Intelligence is not best measured by the answers you have but by the questions that you ask
 
Any complex task is subdivided into smaller tasks that, when their results are taken together, lead to an understanding of the whole...or something CLOSER to that understanding.
 
thanx kewl and puristlove
this all seems very logical,
if i skew it to my personal viewpoint.
puristlove, have you had trips
that inspired these thoughts or aided them
in some way?
if so, id love to here them.
(hope i havent derailed the train)
~:b
 
Wurm, I believe we should always "skew" things to fit our personal belief system. We all walk down different paths, for the very reasons I've been talking about here, and those very paths are influenced by the beliefs we hold.

This past year has been the period during which I have really fleshed out my spiritual and philosophical beliefs, and during this past year, except for one failed attempt at morning glories I havent done any drugs.

But drug experiences of the past have definitely influenced where I am now.

I began meditating around the age of 16. A couple of times I felt on the verge of breaking through, leaving the level of awareness i was, but every time just one the edge i would think about it and basically screw it all up.

I had started meditating because I have severe insomnia and it helped me relax enough to sleep. Weed also makes me sleep so usually if I had weed I wouldnt bother meditating (yes i was a lazy mystic: ) )

One night, though the weed was some very very good skunk and instead of knocking me out it made me more lucid.

I had tests or somethingn in the morning so I lay down and started doing my meditation, trying to bring sleep's sweet nymphette to me. The weed let my thoughts flow more clearly than ever before and I watched them all melt away until it was just me, my breathe and I. then my body dissolved and I felt myself rise up from it. The next thing I knew I was participating in some kind of Native Ritual deep in the jungles of South America. It was far too real to have been a dream.

That really woke me up to the fact that there was more to the universe than meets the eye.

The second influential experience was on ecstasy. I was going through a time in my life when I was selling drugs, and doing so had stopped trusting anyone at all. Everybody was either out to jack me or **** on me. I had no friends and didnt know what love was. That night I experienced true forgiveness and unconditional love for the first time in my life.

It didnt matter if these people were using me, stealing from me, I loved them all the same. and well it might not have been very practical it let me know that such a thing could exist after all.
The third, and most important experience was on 5 sugar cubes. I dont know how many hits were on each cube but I do know that by the time I had them all chewed up i was feeling the effects. We immediately smoked a blunt and I was TRIPPING. Everyone was being silly, wigging out, and as is always the case with a lot of people tripping together who arent too close there was a lot of tension. I had a nickname in those days I was called Captain America, because like the superherom when it came to bad trips i always "saved the day". The people I was with were all hard core thugs, and had never really been exposed to rock. Without saying a word I popped a Pink Floyd tape in the VCR. At first there were cries of "What is this white people shit?" Who r these old guys? etc. It was a tape of a live concert and soon there was synesthesia of the lasers and the music. within thirty seconds not a sound was heard in the room besides the music. I let myself melt into the couch, I remember I got all sweaty and slid down into the floor. Everybody else did also. We were just a big mass of flesh writhing on the floor watching the colors spread from the screen into the room, infiltrating us and astonishing us with their beauty. My body slowly dissolved, and the next thing I knew I was the entire mass of skin on the floor. we were all thinking as one being. Slowly we spread from the room throughout the universe until we were the entire universe. Then we were "nothing" because like this post has said, when there is nothing to be concious of, conciousness cannot exist.

It didnt last long objectively, but subjectively it was just shy of infinite.

I've had similar experiences since, mostly as the result of daily meditation. But it has taken this past year of heavy duty reading and thinking to really sort it out. And there is still so much fucking mystery to the universe. I hope I always have more to figure out.

Love,
Pure
If your interested in reading more about my beliefs, they are woven throughout my novel which is for sale at www.literaryclearinghouse.com/ericwest.htm
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Intelligence is not best measured by the answers you have but by the questions that you ask
 
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PL - why should we skew things? - they are what they are.
to me - if you fight against skewing things - you can come closer to perceiving things for what they are - if you do this you can approach seeing how your actions effect the environment around you.
when you act through a template of beliefs you may propogate things you never intended to propogate - especially if you skew your perceptions around those beliefs and judge benefit by them.
now it is true that you have to have "some" methodology to judge benefit - but why not just let it be the depth and complexity of your experiences and the experiences of those around you?
beliefs definitely help to stabilize your energy- they can also help to flesh out your apreciation of your experiences and communicate these experiences with others in a way that they can share.
it just seems to me if you skew things you run the risk of limiting your possible experiences.
 
When I said skew things, I didn't mean lie to yourself, which is what it seems you interpreted. I believe in complete honesty, with others but most especially with yourself. To deny evidence, or warp that evidence, to personally fit into your belief system, destroys any validity that your belief system has, and ultimately destroys your faith in it.
What I meant was that, when I come across ideology that makes a lot of sense to me, but doesnt completely mesh with my personal system, I play with the idea until either it, or my beliefs change.
At the same time, I'm not going to drop my entire belief system, simply because I found something else to be true that runs contrary to it. I will work with it, until I find what seems to me to be the most true. Often paradoxes arent as paradoxal as they appear at first glance.
For instance, I read ecclectily, from all the earth's religions. One of the religions I have found the most good advice and truth in was the Christian Bible, however I could not believe in a judging god, or that one must accept Christ as their savior to get to heaven. The idea that one could spend their entire lives in devotion to god, and then burn in hell because it was the wrong idea of god, just really didnt make any sense to me. So I did a lot of reading in the bible. I played with some of the passages, and I found a whole new meaning in it.
I believe that every word we here, every experience we have, is a personal message to us, promoting our growth in the direction that we have chosen to grow. My life is my bible. Being such, I have to interpret the things that come into my life, in a way that fits logically with the other things that I have "read" in my life.
Hope that makes sense, I been up long time: )
Love,
Pure
www.literaryclearinghouse.com/ericwest.htm
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Intelligence is not best measured by the answers you have but by the questions that you ask
 
ahhh - the word skew fired my guns! - thanks for the clarification!!
BTW - this is the def of skew i tend to take
----from www.webster.com--------------
: to distort especially from a true value or symmetrical form
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[This message has been edited by kewl (edited 21 January 2001).]
 
im sorry kewl, i suppose a more fitting word like _adapt_ would have been more appropriate.
i just felt that skew would fit more what i wanted to say.
i meant to adapt to my views using my experience as a base. so it would fit into my worldview w/out really changing the meaning, but for puristlove to read his words back as i would've changed them, they would not be what he meant.
The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis supports this use in part, but instead of language its our base of experience translated through word usage. So I 'skewed' his words to say essentially the same thing, only so that i could interpret them.
Puristlove, if i wasnt a broke student id pick it up right away. maybe my aunt will get it (coniving youth i am... )
~:0
 
im sorry kewl, i suppose a more fitting word like _adapt_ would have been more appropriate.
i just felt that skew would fit more what i wanted to say.
in one sense i meant to look at it from a skewed angle but more descriptively i meant to adapt to my views using my experience as a base. so it would fit into my worldview w/out really changing the meaning, but for puristlove to read his words back as i would've changed them, they would not be what he meant.
The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis supports this use in part, but instead of language its our base of experience translated through word usage. So I 'skewed' his words to say essentially the same thing, only so that i could interpret them.
Puristlove, if i wasnt a broke student id pick it up right away. maybe my aunt will get it (coniving youth i am... )
~:0
 
im sorry kewl, i suppose a more fitting word like _adapt_ would have been more appropriate.
i just felt that skew would fit more what i wanted to say.
in one sense i meant to look at it from a skewed angle but more descriptively i meant to adapt to my views using my experience as a base. so it would fit into my worldview w/out really changing the meaning, but for puristlove to read his words back as i would've changed them, they would not be what he meant.
The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis supports this use in part, but instead of language its our base of experience translated through word usage. So I 'skewed' his words to say essentially the same thing, only so that i could interpret them.
Puristlove, if i wasnt a broke student id pick it up right away. maybe my aunt will get it (coniving youth i am... )
~:0
 
Everything = Nothing
How so? Try this:
Think of everything that exists (the concept of everything...obviously you can't "list" everything). Now think of nothing (again, the concept). Now, it should be self-evident that there can be no concept of nothing without there being everything. They exist at the same time...but even nothing is something, so to include nothing is to think of everything, so in fact nothing cannot exist. But, if nothing DOES exist (and it does, because otherwise, how could you think about it?), then everything CANNOT. But they both do exist, so they must be one and the same.
 
Lets see if i can put a spin on things a little....There is no god, no omnipotent or multi-faceted being or consiousness gaining experience about its own creation through us. If god created the universe and everything in it, why would god need to experience anything within it. for it to exist in the first place, it would have to be a part of the dream, and therefore a creation of god. Being a creation of god therefore, He already knows all there is to know about the creation, for he created it originally......(am i going round in circles)
There is only consiousness, and thought. the concept of an all powerful entity or power is just a nice way to protect ourselves from the chaotic nature of existance, and the entropic forces that destroy our bodies from the moment of birth. It is this fundamental fear of death that led to the creation of heaven and hell in our own minds. "religion is the opiate of the masses" by belief in a power greater than ourselves, it is easy to live life in ingnorance that the power is in our own self, the power of true thought and consiousness, the ability to comprehend things which we cannot see and have no immeditate physical control over. Why we have this and other living things do not, i dont know, however, the fact remains that humans have access to the many levels of consiousness only when we agnoledge that the power is in ourselves, and not a gift bestowed my some external entity.
 
another spin on my theory: there is no GOD, however, we are individually our own "god" in terms that we have the ability to grant ourselves the power of true thought, and to gain access to the many levels of consiousness that are within us....i guess i detest the word "god" for all the stigma attatached, and the fact that one word cannot possibly describe the intricate nature of consiousness.
 
There is no god, no omnipotent or multi-faceted being or consiousness gaining experience about its own creation through us. If god created the universe and everything in it, why would god need to experience anything within it.
Click to expand...
That makes the assumption that God made the universe instead of the Universe making God.
My thought: that the Universe is just the ordered FORM that God takes, rather than being God's CREATION.
In other words, Universe=God.
 
but if god is the universe, then the question of why He would need to experience it through our individual experience still stands.
 
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