0mg of Buprenorphine: The Underdose Chronicles)

[thedukeofraoul]

So after countless years of opiates, semisynthetic opioids, and synthetic opioids I've decided to the shit up and continue to build my new life with my wife and child (2mos.)

I'm 29 now and started using opiates and opioids (from here on out I'll refer to as Ops) daily at age 16. I was in a horrible wreck in which I broke my sternum, tailbone, nose, right foot and back. I crushed my L3, L4 and L5 vertebrates, so of course with all this horrible damage and it being almost 15yrs ago most doctors were a lot more friendly with their prescription pads. My first Ops to ever try, minus IV morphine in the hospital were Demerol, Oxycodone and Vicodin (for break-through pain.)

Hella combination for a 16yr old pothead who hadn't even drank but maybe 3-5 times so far in his life and after this I was hooked. I wasn't scared to try pills so I moved onto Barbituates, Tranquilizers and Benzodiazepines. The combo of benzos + ops always caused trouble.

So as of tomorrow I'll be out of Buprenorphine and thank God I'll have enough lorazepam to help me go to sleep through most of the withdrawals.

As far as dosing I am stopping at 8/2mg that was taken roughly Q1D (once daily.)


Wish me luck!

 

[024liakam]

If youve been on all that daily since age 16, and THEN bupe your gonna be in for a hell of a shitty ride man. If I were you id taper a little bit with whatever youd feel most comfortable with, the ativan will for sure make it a little better but its still gonna be rough as hell. You can do this brother! Get past this week or 2 of hell and never look back! Good luck man!

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

are you saying that you were on 8mgs of suboxone maintenance for an extended period of time and plan to simply jump off at 8mgs? that is the same thing as suicide to me...

the withdrawals from that will last very long and be extremely unpleasant

 

[Zerwas]

I agree, DO NOT just quit at that dose (8mg Subs equal about 240mg of Morphine, jumping at that high of a dose is insane)

Get some more Subs (shouldn't be a problem with your doctors, especially if you tell them you want to taper off) and reduce your dose slow and steady until you are at least at 0,5 or better 0,25mg.
Otherwise the WD will probably be so excruciatingly painful that a relapse is nearly inevitable.

For example I quit my Sub habit at 0,5mg after being on lower potent Ops like Tramadol/Codeine/Kratom etc for a few years and I experienced a very harsh withdrawal including constant puking, not being able to eat for about 4-5 days just barely being able to keep water in.
It was the worst experience of my life and took about 2-3 weeks until I felt somewhat normal again.

With your backstory and length of use you really need to take it slow or it could get potentially dangerous because of dehydration due to puking and diarrhea.

PLEASE do yourself a favor and do a medical supervised taper.

 

[Dtresearch17]

I just did this from 4mg a sub a day I am 22 an used opiates since age 14 . it was brutal I couldn't do anything except puke and shower, now I'm back on because it wasgetting worse after 12 days

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Duke, you can't just jump off buprenorphine at 8mgs. You have to taper down. Maybe you can do it quick (reducing your doe over, say, a month).

But jumping off at 8mgs is like jumping off a cliff.

 

[mazda01]

as others have pointed out it's not advisable to just jump off 8mg of bupe per day. how long have you been on 8mg per day? like others i suggest a taper down to at least 2mg per day. that's where i've jumped off on 2 different occasions and it wasn't too bad. just have to keep your mind/body busy. no laying around thinking about your withdrawals, that's the worst you can do because your mind is very powerful and will actually make your withdrawals worse than they really are. gabapentin can help with general aches and pains and can provide a mood boost if stacked at certain dosages throughout the day. ativan will help but is very weak and may only help to relax you slightly. good luck

 

[thedukeofraoul]

* I was only on the buprenorphine for maybe a month, give or take, prior to I was doing hydromorphone and morphine. *



I know people say taper down as far as you can go. I've tried to taper off subs before and I really couldn't manage it cold turkey, this time however I have built up a cornucopia of benzodiazepines to help ease the withdrawals and I do plan to go grab some good dank. So I figure if I drink a night cap, smoke a bowl and take 4-5mg of lorazepam I should be able to sleep, or I would hope so.

Also as far as tapering down lower goes I only have (4/1mg) half a strip left. Also, if it's such a beast to do this why do so many neuroscience doctors give you 10-15 8/2mg to taper off with, one strip daily a week, half a strip daily a week, then ontop quarter of a strip for a week and the leftovers are if it gets tough for you to "take a quarter to help you."

I know buprenorphine at lower doses doesn't have that high of a binding affinity such as doing 8/2mg or 16/4mg daily, but I just think buprenorphine is a gimmick. I've played with so many hardcore ops in my past and if it gets touch I'll go grab up some low end ops (hydrocodone, or another) and take just to sleep. My primary issue with withdrawals is SLEEPING. I cannot sleep after day 1-2. I get so restless, and if I can't sleep it's going to affect my work, which I can't risk, so I don't know if I'm just in a major pickle or what...


~ Duke

 

[crzydiamond]

Bupe wd is not like a dilaudid or oxycodone or (fill in any short acting opioid here). Those,like heroin, are roughly 3-5 day wd...feel like crap but after day 4 or so you start improving

With bupe (like methadone), you don't even really start the wd til about day 3.

That's a big difference. And then, bupe is a long drawn out wd.

Honestly had you planned cold turkey you would've been better off doing that while on the dilaudid. If you can do a short acting opiate for a couple weeks to allow your body to switch back it would be a lot more doable than what you're proposing.


It's not that you can't do it. But it is going to be weeks worth of misery and inability to function normally.

 

[thedukeofraoul]

Bupe wd is not like a dilaudid or oxycodone or (fill in any short acting opioid here). Those,like heroin, are roughly 3-5 day wd...feel like crap but after day 4 or so you start improving

With bupe (like methadone), you don't even really start the wd til about day 3.

That's a big difference. And then, bupe is a long drawn out wd.

Honestly had you planned cold turkey you would've been better off doing that while on the dilaudid. If you can do a short acting opiate for a couple weeks to allow your body to switch back it would be a lot more doable than what you're proposing.


It's not that you can't do it. But it is going to be weeks worth of misery and inability to function normally.

Yeah, that's was going to be the game plan but at the time I did not have a stockpile of benzodiazepines to help me through all of it.. That's why I got fucked with all of this. I have roughly 210mg of lorazepam, but then again my benzo tolerance is horrid also... Seems like I'm screwed off the top like a bottlecap..

 

[thedukeofraoul]

Now that I look back, I wasn't on the buprenorphine for a month, maybe, so what is everyone's standpoint on that?

 

[Znegative]

It's still going to suck, but it won't be as bad as if you were on it for a couple of months. Keep in mind though, just because you take 8mg of buprenorphine every day doesn't mean you're just on 8mg, Buprenorphine has a 36-7 hour half life at high dosages like that, so it builds up like crazy. You probably have closer to 16mg in your system, maybe more. Also, know that the first few days will probably not be so bad, because of this, you might think you're in the clear and then on the fourth day wake up to a living hell, so just be prepared. I'd make sure to have some clonodine on hand too, and maybe get some kratom or loperamide. That shit is going to suck, but good luck.

 

[SS373dOH]

As others have stated, the jump from 8mg will be hell, even with your benzo stash. Then by taking all the benzos, you'll have to wd from those too.. talk to your.doc, and start a taper regiment.


- Hopeless

 

[ImSTILLtrying]

its kinda funny when people come out w/ crazy ideas and really dont now whats to follow.

at least on this board you get the information on what to expect and learn that it just WONT work out, ha. NOT AT ALL, man!

8MG will be one hell of a withdrawal.

 

[Zerwas]

I cannot sleep after day 1-2. I get so restless, and if I can't sleep it's going to affect my work, which I can't risk,

If you jump from 8mg you wont be able to go to work at all, for at least one or two weeks and sleep will be one of the lesser problems.
Puking, diarrhea, dehydration and exhaustion due to not being able to eat. Lethargy, Depression etc. I don't want to scare you, just prepare yourself.

Tapering would make all of this much more manageable and you won't risk a Benzo dependency after that because you won't need that much Benzos to sleep in that case.
Listen to the advise given to you by experienced people. If you have trouble tapering then let someone (friend, doctor) hand you out the doses so you can't take more by yourself.

Believe me, you will regret it if you go cold turkey of 8mg. It is a desaster waiting to happen especially with your drug and medical history.

€: Also get Clonidine, Gabapentin or Lyrica and Loperamide as well as Multivitamins and Minerals. Kratom would be another good option.

 

[adder]

I know love is a beautiful thing, I'd wave good-bye to this shit too (with a proper taper-off though) if I had a family, but really, if you have any chance of getting buprenorphine for a proper taper-off, then do get it, you'll do a favour to both yourself and your family. The withdrawal from such a high dose will be unbearable, so unbearable that you might just relapse on the first opioid you could get your hands on and no love, no family will make sense in such a state of mind, I imagine. Some of us long-term addicts may be accustomed to toughing out extreme pain (on the other hand I'm sure we're already much more sensitive to any type of pain), but everyone's got their limits. Also, jumping off from such a high dose may leave longer lasting post-withdrawal symptoms.

 

[thedukeofraoul]

So after countless years of opiates, semisynthetic opioids, and synthetic opioids I've decided to the shit up and continue to build my new life with my wife and child (2mos.)

I'm 29 now and started using opiates and opioids (from here on out I'll refer to as Ops) daily at age 16. I was in a horrible wreck in which I broke my sternum, tailbone, nose, right foot and back. I crushed my L3, L4 and L5 vertebrates, so of course with all this horrible damage and it being almost 15yrs ago most doctors were a lot more friendly with their prescription pads. My first Ops to ever try, minus IV morphine in the hospital were Demerol, Oxycodone and Vicodin (for break-through pain.)

Hella combination for a 16yr old pothead who hadn't even drank but maybe 3-5 times so far in his life and after this I was hooked. I wasn't scared to try pills so I moved onto Barbituates, Tranquilizers and Benzodiazepines. The combo of benzos + ops always caused trouble.

So as of tomorrow I'll be out of Buprenorphine and thank God I'll have enough lorazepam to help me go to sleep through most of the withdrawals.

As far as dosing I am stopping at 8/2mg that was taken roughly Q1D (once daily.)


Wish me luck!

Just an update; I am currently tapering down my benzodiazepines medication, with supervisor of an addictionologist, however, still on the subs but finally got some strips because logically they're the best to taper with since you can cut almost precision down to certain mg/mg.

I've gone from a tolerance of three 2mg lorazepam daily to 20mg diazepam daily. Once I have lowered my tolerance to where benzos will actually work again I'm going to stay on the subs for a bit more, but once I can dose an anxiolytic and get that relaxing and calm feeling again I think my plan wouldn't be as simple, plus the 8mg jump did suck.

I made it a week, literally and dosed an 8/2 and nodded for hours, but also hadn't slept for 2.5 days prior and spasms and restlessness became so overwhelming, the benzos barely even helped.

So what's BL's opinion on best taper plan with strips?

 

[Tinker55]

Others may have different thoughts but your dr. should be able to do the math. Reduction by 25% per week might be reasonable.

However, you are digging yourself another hole with the benzos. If at all possible, do NOT increase your dose and talk to your doc about getting off them once your sub taper is done.

 

[thedukeofraoul]

Others may have different thoughts but your dr. should be able to do the math. Reduction by 25% per week might be reasonable.

However, you are digging yourself another hole with the benzos. If at all possible, do NOT increase your dose and talk to your doc about getting off them once your sub taper is done.

Oh yeah I'm definitey going to discontinue after my "bupe" taper

 

[Zerwas]

Hey duke, I am glad you decided to do it this way. I am not versed with the strips as they aren't available here but in your case and if getting more is no problem I would reduce 1mg per week until you are at 1mg per day. Then go lower in smaller increments like 0,75/0,5/0,25/-->0. And always try to stabilize on the lowered dose.
It is good you have an addiction-specialist on hand and I guess you can get comfort meds like clonidine and Lyrica etc. Check that out and good luck!