β-phenethylamine - Limited Experience - More Amp than Coke

[Hammilton]

A few weeks ago I decided that there was a disapointing lack of information on the subject of using β-PEA recreationally with an MAO-B selective inhibitor. I decided to rectify this situation by obtaining some selegiline and some β-PEA. When I realized that the β-PEA was only a dollar per gram, I had to give it a shot. Even if it was 1/10th as potent as amphetamine, it was still a massively more economical and legally available intoxicant.

For three days I took just Selegiline sans any β-PEA. Day 1 was 2.5mg, Day 2 5mg and Day 3 7.5mg.

Yesterday I gave it a short trial by adding ~100mg to a glass of apple cider ("Simply Apple" the best fucking apple cider freely available- it seems wrong to call it apple juice because it bears absolutely nothing in common with the from-concentrate sugar added garbage that polutes the market).

Today I have given it a bit more trial, adding about 350-500mg of powder to my cider.

Effects are noticed within 10 minutes, usually 5 if I have an empty stomach. I will notice the onset by a mild sweating of the brow and tingling that covers my head and back.

I will take 1 drink from the glass at a time, wait five minutes an see how high it takes me. Note, though- the effects are almost entirely mental with only a very minor body high.

By 20-30 minutes the intoxication is pretty much over.

I don't think that it's as euphoric as amphetamine, actually. The effects are more pronounced, but much shorter lasting, neccessitating constant redosing. Done carefully, by taking smaller and small swigs I can taper myself down and have nearly no crash.

I'm not a compulsive stimulant user, though, and I feel little desire to redose.

There's little locomotor stimulation, little gabbiness. Very focusing though. Reduces anxiety majorly, too. I wonder if that might be a function of it's activity as a TAAR agonist.

The only negative I've noticed so far is the diarrhea it can cause. I'm prone to this with all stimulants, but maybe because it hits so hard and ends so quick, it seems to be even worse. I mean, I've hit the can so to speak twice in the last 30 minutes (2 swigs worth).

Sexually it's also very stimulating. That may be a function of the selegiline, though, which has stimulated that aspect more than usual.

I actually find it easier to fall asleep at the height of the experience with this than when it's wearing off.

This isn't the most focused trip report you'll ever see, I'm a little disapointed. I thought the β-PEA would have me more focused. Writing this in the middle of it is maybe not the smartest thing.

 

[stirfry]

thanks for sharing. it's good to see reports on drugs that don't have very much anecdotal information avalable.

sounds like it is a dissapointment as a stimulant. what aspects of this chemical would you liken to amphetamine?

 

[Hammilton]

No, it's actually pretty good as a stimulant. It's GREAT at focusing, it has almost no peripheral effect, very little locomotor stimulation (this is unlike amp, but I've barely used dex-amphetamine), comes on really fast with great tingles.

It's too short lasting, doesn't have the euphoric chattiness of the DARIs, and could easily turn one into a fiend.

Mitragyna has posted about his use of it, and I've discussed it with him privately too. He described using it every 30 minutes while awake every day for 3 months. I can easily see doing that. I'm pretty sure he wasn't diluting it in juice first, instead taking a larger dose right away.

I prefer lower dose stimulants, as I'm pretty sensitive to them.

I suppose if I was ever to take a higher dose, I'd probably experience stronger euphoria, at the expense of the missing peripheral jitteriness, though. I'm sure I'll give it a try, see how strong the euphoria actually is at higher doses. I don't particularly feel euphoric as I've been doing it. I get a definite mood lift, but it's not at all like the overriding euphoria I experienced from plugged methylphenidate, either, though. I'm one of the few people who prefer DARIs to releasers, and I'd take methylphenidate over Adderall any day, probably over dexedrine, too. MCAT is wonderful, imho. The DARIs seem to produce a chatty euphoria at doses with lower peripheral effects than amphetamines which are primarily focusing at equivalent doses and raise my blood pressure.

I haven't check to see if PEA raises my blood pressure much because it doesn't make my heart race particularly fast.

 

[shibireru]

It's interesting: Recently I went as high as 60mg on the dex-amphetamine mixed with a bit of clonidine to keep my blood pressure and heart rate low... and I kid you not when I say that absolutely NOTHING happened. When I take bupropion, I feel dysphoric and just... fucking weird. The only dopaminergic substance of those that I have tried that's actually produced euphoria is β-PEA.

The other interesting thing is that β-PEA produced many effects one might not anticipate: it made my whole body numb (especially insensate to extremes of temperature: I covered my body in snow when I started to overheat and felt nothing except pressure); it caused me to get great pleasure from rubbing and touching my body (especially my chest and head); it was extremely entactogenic/empathogenic; it reduced my libido, but paradoxically imbued me with an intense desire to have sex (out of a desire for intimacy), so much so that I would have had sex with almost anyone at the time; and generally just made me feel very euphoric and peaceful; and it only brought about an increase in heart rate and blood pressure when I took extremely large doses of it along with MAO-A inhibiting doses of Selegiline.

All in all, my experience sounds like an MDMA experience more than an amphetamine experience. (I have never tried MDMA, fyi).

 

[Hammilton]

It is actually not very similar to MDMA at all, unfortunately. I've had more time to experience higher doses along with slightly higher doses of selegiline. I'm sticking with the powder-in-cider drinking it method. Snorting it is incredibly painful and it BURNS terribly on the tongue.

I did vaporize some freebase PEA with created an incredible rush but the crash was too much to bear. It was short lived, which is the positive about it, though.

Yesterday I took about a gram and put it in a water bottle with my cider and took sips on the 3 hour drive home. I didn't start having any until an hour into the drive, and by 1.5 hours I felt amazing. Chatty, happy. Usually it's tended me toward introversion and incredible focus. I was still super focused on the drive, but I was also driven to chat more. I don't know how to describe this. When I've been high on various amphetamines, I never felt particularly euphoric or chatty. Only DARIs have ever done this with me, and neither have ever created much of a body high. This time though my skin was tingling, I was hyper focused and chatty all at the same time. It was rather odd, actually.

My heart rate has actually never increased beyond 90bpm at any dose. That's rather benign, it seems.

I wouldn't be surprised if it has some serotonin releasing effect, but if it releases any norepinephrine, it has to be incredibly minor. I checked my blood pressure twice when on this, I have not experienced any increase. Actually, the blood pressure lowering effect of selegiline seems to win out.

I have definitely noticed an analgesic effect; this isn't unexpected, though: amphetamine is equipotent with morphine as an analgesic. That was my main reason for giving this a go actually. With spring coming, I've been throwing boomerangs and working out more, and my muscles (particularly my shoulder) has been in super pain and my elbow (the one with the nerve damage) is much better. All around, this has been great stuff.

 

[dynamo]

I have tried PEA in 500mg capsules i had 8 capsules and for approximately one hour it felt like one massive head rush and everything i was doing had to be done fast and the head tingles were fun then it died strait out almost as quickly as it come on.

 

[Hammilton]

You were on selegiline or another MAOI?

Otherwise, you were experiencing placebo effect. And you're saying you took 4 grams in one go?

No way. You would have stroked. 200mg is a great ride at first.

 

[Damien]

Sounds like they weren't on any type of MAOI.

 

[dynamo]

yeah 4 grams no i wasnt an a MAOI it was phenyethylamine bought from a bulk nutrition store given to me by a friend , im sorry if im talking about the wrong thing ? and i was under the impression that was PEA .

 

[Damien]

You're right. I think Ham just assumed that you were on an MAOI and your account didn't add up according to his experience.

 

[ebola?]

mmm...this is interesting.
any other recreational drugs (or combos) that are short acting DA releasers like that?

 

[Hammilton]

You're right. I think Ham just assumed that you were on an MAOI and your account didn't add up according to his experience.

Right, because eating 4 grams would result in death. Strong effects are noted from 200mg. I think it's fairly safe to say that 20x that dose would result in death.

Phenethylamine is entirely without effect unless an MAOI is administered. There are many studies proving this. It's fair to assume that any effects noticed when someone is not an MAOI are the result of placebo, I think.

ebola?: Short acting releasers? I don't think so. Once you start altering the basic phenethylamine molecule, you start getting more and more RI effect. IIRC, though, the oxazolines are fair releasers but also RIs. I believe that tyramine and/or tyrosine might be, I know they both have DA effects in vitro, but as they're deactivated by MAO-A, not MAO-B (as with PEA- though MAO-A almost certainly fills the role when MAO-B is removed from the picture via selegiline). Neither are viable options as such, because they are strong pressors when MAO-A is inhibited, the reason for "Cheese syndrome."

Here's the table I always look at for this subject. It doesn't have everything, but it's good enough to give a decent idea. I wish pemoline made the list though.

 

[ebola?]

Indeed...I lurve that table. Nonetheless, I hate its oversights.

ebola

 

[dynamo]

yes well in more than one of your comments you say " disapointing lack of information on the subject of using β-PEA " and " It's fair to assume that any effects noticed when someone is not an MAOI are the result of placebo, I think.

Trust me when i tell you that i am 100% on what im saying and that it couldnt have possibly have been placebo due to the fact i had no clue what to expect. So Hamm if u get the chane why not buy some more as you say it is very cheap and gradually increase the dose without an inhibitor and see the results you might be surprised.

 

[Hammilton]

Trust me when i tell you that i am 100% on what im saying and that it couldnt have possibly have been placebo due to the fact i had no clue what to expect. So Hamm if u get the chane why not buy some more as you say it is very cheap and gradually increase the dose without an inhibitor and see the results you might be surprised.

You don't understand what the placebo effect is, do you?

So you just decided to eat 4 grams of something you knew nothing about? I find that hard to believe. Nor can I believe that you didn't know of it's relationship to amphetamine and other stimulants and psychedelics.

Hundreds of reports, even high dose IV administration finding only placebo effect when not administered with an MAOI.

 

[dynamo]

my friend gave it to me and said its sold as a " mood enhancer " and thats all i had to go on was assured the dose wouldnt do harm . Dont believe me im not worried anymore.

 

[Morissey]

You don't understand what the placebo effect is, do you?

So you just decided to eat 4 grams of something you knew nothing about? I find that hard to believe. Nor can I believe that you didn't know of it's relationship to amphetamine and other stimulants and psychedelics.

Hundreds of reports, even high dose IV administration finding only placebo effect when not administered with an MAOI.

There has to be some confusion here. Dynamo and I both had this product: http://www.cognitivenutrition.com/en/pea-phenylethylamine-500-mg-120-capsules.html

"phenylethylamine" 500mg capsules.
I noticed there are a few different spellings (ie phenethylamine). Maybe they are different?

I have tried various doses from 1-5grams on an empty stomach. There is NO WAY IN HELL that this is placebo. At ~4grams I get very light-headed and tingly.

 

[Beenhead]

The only negative I've noticed so far is the diarrhea it can cause. '

Or maybe the apple juice??

 

[Hammilton]

There has to be some confusion here. Dynamo and I both had this product: http://www.cognitivenutrition.com/en/pea-phenylethylamine-500-mg-120-capsules.html

"phenylethylamine" 500mg capsules.
I noticed there are a few different spellings (ie phenethylamine). Maybe they are different?

I have tried various doses from 1-5grams on an empty stomach. There is NO WAY IN HELL that this is placebo. At ~4grams I get very light-headed and tingly.

Phenethylamine = phenylethylamine = beta-Phenethylamine = beta-PEA = PEA

You still don't understand what the placebo effect is, do you?

The fact that you say it wasn't placebo doesn't mean anything. When you experience placebo effect, you cannot tell the difference. This is the reason drugs are administered in a double blind fashion in scientific studies.

This is why bioassays really aren't all that useful. When you have a large collection of them, it may be interesting to comb through them to find similarities.

 

[shibireru]

Wait, how many units of MAO-B are there in the average person's body? Isn't it conceivable that one could take enough phenethylamine that even the body's apparently substantial reserves shouldn't be enough to prevent noticeable psychoactivity.

And you never know, this individual with his somewhat extraordinary claim may have consumed an MAOI without knowing it prior to his ingestion of the PEA.

I lean towards believing his claims. I have heard it said many times that PEA's effects are noticeable without an MAOI if administered at very high doses. (I know what Shulgin et al say on the matter, but presumably he didn't test it on that many people; some may have naturally fairly low levels of MAOs and others naturally high levels. Perhaps Shulgin's were all high end of the continuum in terms of MAO concentrations.)