Gabapentinoids In a pickle here, about out of Gabapentin

[BourbonMac]

Because of some bad days of sleeping I'd been taking gabapentin due to the fact that my doctor had cold turkey cut off my valium supply. I was having hellish horrible withdrawals after 7-8 days or so, finally another doctor was able to fill it.

I'm prescribed 900mg gabapentin, and aside from one weekend I was dumb enough to stagger up to 3g recreationally, I only have 600mg left. Last 2 nights I've survived on that and kava, but this afternoon the withdrawals are coming on, and it's not that far off from kratom withdrawal, feels very similar and I took 7g of kratom.

My idea was to take 600mg Phenibut at midnight, then my 300mg Gabapentin like, 2-3h before bed. Should this work? I'd hate to have to do this 2 nights in a row and I don't really like Phenibut. I realize Phenibut is technically a lot weaker but it has full binding to GABA-B and apparently GABA-A if dosed high enough. On the 21st I can get it re-filled, though my doctor may not. That's 24 or 25 days out of 30 so he'd know I took extra, but it's his damn fault for ignoring me for over a week. I had to take that extra gabapentin or else I probably would've started having seizures. The full body tremors were getting bad.

But yeah I'm sitting here having awful withdrawals. Not that awful but just, very uncomfortable. Derealization/depersonalization similar to kratom withdrawal, slightly reminds me of benzo withdrawal but more kratom. I thought the kratom would help, nah... so I just need to hold on. If my doctor denies the refill request that's when I'm in trouble, because I'd have to take a higher dose of Pheni that night and I hate this shit. I don't want to develop withdrawals from that especially. But Jesus I feel awful. Like I might as well take the 300mg now and the Phenibut later but I just don't think that would enough to not have gabapentin withdrawal.

If you're wondering why phenibut is actually weaker, there are reddit threads on it. Even people who claim 800mg of gabapentin will fuck them up more than a gram of phenibut. They must have weird ass body chemistry then because by around a gram of phenibut I feel like I'm on Xanax and MDMA. High dose Gabapentin is more like just MDMA for me.

Here's one source -- claims α2δ activity is 620x weaker than gabapentin. Apparently it just doesn't bind to the gaba receptors as well as Gabapentin does but... how? It's a full GABA-B agonist and has only A agonism at high doses so probably weakly binds to A as well. Also a weaker VGCC inhibitor. Very shocked I'm having withdrawal this early, I figured the high doses of kava would effectively replace the 300mg I'm not taking and it seemed to.

I just don't really get it. How can a drug that is way stronger be weaker at the same time? I call BS on the guy who said taking a single 600mg tablet of Gabapentin got higher than a gram of phenibut because if you take 600mg Gabapentin all at once, you're absorbing like 30% of the dose. I could get behind 900mg Gabapentin staggered with no tolerance being stronger than a gram of phenibut but 600mg? That's some odd body chemistry.

 

[BourbonMac]

This is getting pretty damn bad, wow. It's true, the withdrawals do really get worse after you've gone off it a few times.
I hate to bump the thread but Reddit is not the place to go and ask about stuff like this without being treated like shit. Bluelight is the only forum where people understand each other, their habits, and don't judge. I need to know if 600mg Phenibut or something and then my 300mg Gabapentin hours later is a good idea, or maybe I should take the Gabapentin and then the Phenibut, I don't really know. I just know 600mg Phenibut feels similar to 900mg Gabapentin but not quite, and it's just similar

I'm astonished I'm having withdrawals akin to opioid withdrawal

 

[Jnowhere]

What is Phenibut?

 

[BourbonMac]

Well you could start by googling it, since asking me what the substance I was going to use in the place of gabapentin isn't really helpful, no offense. But you did bump my thread so maybe someone else can help me out here.

 

[BourbonMac]

I guess I'll just bump it myself because I really am in trouble here. Phenibut is similar to GHB and Baclofen, but is classified as a gabapentinoid. It has full affinity to GABA-B and only A at high doses. Gabapentin binds to both weakly yet is generally considered to be a stronger VGCC. Since I will likely have to take it again tomorrow, possibly even the next day, which is bad, I need to know what the best course of action will be. If I should just take a gram tomorrow night or something. I took around 750mg tonight and don't feel it all that much, proving my existent tolerance to Gabapentin correlates here. It's been 3 hours since I took it and I'm not feeling much more than when I'd taken 600mg the last time I ran out my Gabapentin script. If my doctor doesn't fill that Wednesday I really am fucked, because then I'd likely have phenibut withdrawals.

 

[Jnowhere]

I have a number of scripts including gabapentin. The state of Michigan keeps lowering what doctors can prescribe in terms of opiods and I think he gave it to me to potentiate the oxycodone that I have been on. He tells me he would raise my script if not for the laws they keep passing, lowering what I can have. I have cirrhosis of the liver and pancreas issues. I was told in Dec 2015, I had a year to live without a liver transplant. I declined. Driving to Detroit everyday for six months to piss in a cup to make sure I wasn't still drinking, before I could be put on the organ donor list, seemed like to much of a hassel and well I really didn't want to live anyways. But here I am, trading one addiction for 3
I was horrified when your doctor cut you of your Valium script. I am on 30mg of it a day. I was on Ativan(lorazepam) for 6 years and when I found out how bad short acting benzo withdrawal is I got scared and switched to Valium.
I had no idea, until a while ago that gabapentin even had a withdrawal.

 

[BourbonMac]

I'm in MA. I used to get re-fills on the Gabapentin but I no longer do. I have one for a 100mg capsule but that's disabled from my chart. Maybe I should've just told the guy I'd take 200 3x a day because then I'd get 180 100mg capsules vs 90 300mg capsules, and could use it as I wanted, with refills. Yellows are just so much easier to swallow in one pill.

Yeah, I got the Valium back up but for how long, I dunno. My doctor is scary, I mean the 21st is 24/30 days of the Gabapentin, so unless I come up with something like oh I took an extra here or there (actually did do this by mistake before) or just wanted to fill it earlier. This phenibut is from December 2022 so naturally some potency has dropped. I dumped half a cap out an hour ago about so I'm at like, 1g now and the 300mg Gabapentin I took around 3 hours ago, so I guess I should be OK sleeping tonight but I'll likely have to do this again tomorrow and I don't want to.

I can remember now why I found phenibut so addicting, it does have a nice feel, but still. Gabapentin has a WAY better high and I don't necessarily abuse it, or not normally. Fact is tolerance builds hella fast and if I'm really, really depressed, I'll take a higher dose. This script I definitely made some mistakes with that I won't in the future. Like 2 weeks ago when I took 3g thinking it'd actually get around tolerance, nope. I just wasted a bunch of pills.

Also consuming kava which is more of a gabapentinoid overall. I would say the 750mg of phenibut feels like what 900mg of Gabapentin with a tolerance would be: not much, although one night I was actually high on the gabapentin which made me realize my tolerance must have dropped, that's when I decided to go with 600 the last 2 nights, then 300 tonight and tomorrow, but when I had the awful restless legs earlier, around noon, I knew it had to be the drop. Gabapentin is harder to get off every time you go back on it if you don't taper. And my doc, well... he has attempted to do this on me, to also cut me off this as well. I think there's a 50% chance he won't fill the Gabapentin Wednesday but I REALLY need him to.

Your doctor really gave you this to potentiate oxy? I mean, it is safe overall but damn I ain't never heard of a doc helping a patient potentiate a drug lol. Benzos are more dangerous with oxy, but I always ignored the warnings because when I'd be prescribed it after a surgery or something, I'd take my Valium as normal, smoke some weed and feel heavenly. A pure Gabapentin high is one of the best there is, though. Maybe even my favorite high. DMT is my next favorite, then weed, then kava.

I have profound PTSD, OCD, ADHD and anxiety. DMT squashes them like a bug, but so can Gabapentin. The only pharm drug that has actually genuinely done something positive for me, but I can't take it as prescribed, I need breaks, like 2x a week I can have a higher dose. That's what's good about Gabapentin, you simply can't abuse it, and this last script showed me that more than ever.

 

[BourbonMac]

I do think I'll probably be OK to sleep tonight but it's hard to say. If Phenibut is a lot weaker than Gabapentin structurally, how would 1g compare to 300 or 600mg of Gabapentin? I do feel kind of restless and giddy, on Gabapentin I'd often experience something like this that I called "gaba giddies" but I can't tell if it's that or genuinely just withdrawal kicking up. It's impossible to tell, especially given I drank like 30g of micronized kava which is 2x stronger than regular. I should've saved the Gabapentin until 2h before bed or something, I just thought if I took it at roughly 1am (it's almost 5 now), that the phenibut would help potentiate it, or they'd potentiate each other, or something.

 

[Jnowhere]

I definitely have OCD, and anxiety. However my OCD keeps my prescription drug use in check. I use to drink alot and a few weeks after my mom was found dead of complications of cirrhosis of the liver, I ended up hospitalized for 2 to 3
weeks(seriously)and diagnosed with cirrhosis but I got lucky, because I have a good GP who actually knew my dad before I was a patient of his. He has told he would put me on a higher dose of oxycodone if he could.
You can grow up to 12 Marijuana plants for recreational purposes but the opiod laws suck. I am in serious pain and can barely eat anymore. Michigan is a strange state, but it is home.
I sorry to hear of your situation, I use get alcohol withdrawals bad and would suffer for usually 5 days, no food and barely able to keep liquids down and at times could hardly stand up.
I am terrified of what the withdrawals from benzos, would be like. My doctor also before the more recent crackdown, prescribed me 60mg a day of morphine, which didn't do that much, but I was getting better so I got off it, I really was in pain so not that big of a deal in terms of withdrawals. Now things are getting worse but it is my fault. I shouldn't have abused alcohol but luckily I am now allergic to it. I have tried drinking, but I itch all over(lots of benadryl doesn't help) and I can't keep it down.
I sincerely hope and pray that you can somehow get through this. Hopefully your doctor will be in a good mood when you see him.

 

[BourbonMac]

Your alcohol withdrawal sounds like a lot of what I went through in Valium withdrawal. I mean I wasn't nauseous but I was completely dead. Depressed, restless, no appetite, no desire for water, so weak I couldn't even stand. Struggling to breathe just trying to speak a sentence. Glad to hear you got better. Alcohol was a big problem with me from 19-22, 23 is when I stopped doing it as much or 23 and a half I guess. Once I met kratom I began to dislike alcohol more and more, but I don't need kratom anymore either. Weed or DMT is all I really need.

Dude yeah, same. I was always allergic to alcohol, it's why hungover, my sinuses were FILLED and I couldn't taste or smell all day. This ruined my 20th birthday when I got Pizza Hut and couldn't taste a damn thing. It's a histamine reaction, eventually I started getting a bad headache within an hour of any drink, even a white claw.

Sadly I'm not scheduled to see my doc, all I can do is select refill on Wednesday and then hope he fills it. I don't want to be taking Phenibut for 2, maybe even 3 days in a row. This shit is not to be fucked around with. The worst withdrawals known to man come from Phenibut. I mean the shit when you dose it high enough is like being drunk, on xanax and MDMA, it's completely wild. So it's strange how Gabapentin is actually so much stronger when Phenibut has been able to get me more fucked up than Gabapentin ever has, and has not quite a clean high. I do feel it now but I mostly feel the kava I drank.

 

[Jnowhere]

I don't know what say, until recently I never heard of phenibut. I tried kava, and nothing. I Suppose the stuff at the grocery store is not the best. Alcohol is a lot more dangerous than people will admit too, but it is socially acceptable.
I would have been better off smoking weed and the occasional tab of lsd or shrooms, than drinking

 

[JackARoe]

Mac! I am just glad you are posting. I have to say only once did I mix gabapentin and phenibut and honestly I was getting brain type zaps. I have never had a seizure ever in my life but that felt funny. It could have been all in my head. I got scared and took etizolam just in case and that was the end of my night.

I too, every since I have had gabapentin do not reach for phenibut anymore. Gabapentin feels better for me.

I do think the mix of gabapentinoids and benzos cause issues that may be 3 times worse than what either can do alone. So it is hard to say just what substance is causing the most grief.

I never get derealization from kratom withdrawal. Just lethargy and chills. That is about it. I would have to think it is the mix of other drugs too?

I will say this, if I were messing with some of these prescriptions daily I would need a back up just in case. I hate relying on doctors. Luckly I decided to not take gabapentin daily when I was prescribed it. Although it has been steady for years. I lost a little interest but i think gabapentin and pregabalin are great utility drugs.

Keep us posted on your mixes and matches as well as your lame doctor. Hopefully you get the gabapentin soon. For a good while I think you were saying you did not get withdrawal bad from that until recently. So the whole kindling this is alive and well with this class of drugs too.

 

[BourbonMac]

I got DP/DR bad from kratom withdrawal, but I already have episodes of it related to C-PTSD which is probably why. At the time I'd first withdrawn from kratom all else I did was smoke weed.

Yeah I sure hope I get it tomorrow. I feel like S H I T. I mean, I slept, but my legs still feel restless and I still feel kind of high off the phenibut. This is something I sincerely dislike about it. I'm only taking 2 capsules tonight and waiting until closer to bed to take the 300mg Gabapentin.

It's not even a nice high. I think I only considered it as such because at the time, I was no longer ever abusing Gabapentin. I'd forgotten what a great Gabapentin high was like until last August after I'd gone off it and back on.

But yeah, I only slept due to how insanely tired I was and still am. My legs do feel restless, for sure. But I slept weird. It was like 7am when I fell asleep, woke up at 1pm to piss, got up a half hour ago. Why was I up till 7, I have no idea. I genuinely feel like I blacked some of that out. Maybe taking Trazadone, even just the 15mg I took (10mg below threshold dose but I'm sensitive to it) made me feel even more zombified today. I did also do like 30g of micronized kava which is a fucking lot.

Yeah phenibut + gabapentin is not an enjoyable high. I did this last summer, like 3g Gabapntin and 1g phenibut and I was so ridiculously fucked up. Felt like I was on shrooms and cocaine. The only way I could calm myself down was to smoke DMT and reset my brain.

That was my last night in Omaha, and it was such a big mistake, the phenibut. I thought it'd make me feel less depressed about leaving, no, it just made it worse when I slept for only a few hours and woke up so hungover that I don't even wanna talk about it, leaving was more traumatic last summer than it's ever been and I 100% blame the phenibut. I would've trashed them right away, hell I'm down to 8 capsules but I absolutely am trashing these after the next script. Flushing down a toilet, burning them in a paper bag, I don't know, but I want to see them get destroyed.

Edit: since I may lose insurance end of the month, I think I have a good excuse to have him fill it tomorrow. I have to do a ton of paperwork. Gabapentin has come up at $90 for me before when they didn't have my insurance on file at CVS. Still need to call my old Walmart back one day as my horrible credit from unpaid student loans is likely part of why the 50 or so places I've applied to haven't hired me. If they don't take me back, whatever. The fact they fired me over death in the family makes me not want to see them ever again regardless.

 

[Jnowhere]

Yeah, Went to bed at around 6:30am and got up at 2:30 ish; which was great, I usually only sleep 3 or 4 hours. I am just sitting here trying to kill time, I have a few errands to run. I am waiting at home because there are 2 rush hours that last from about 2:45 to 7:00pm with a slight break in between.
It is a matter of timing and luckily it is winter, so no road work is being done.
They always use the lowest bidder on fixing, what are some of the worst roads in America, and are constantly doing large scale repairs on roads that were not designed to handle this much traffic in the first place.
I had a scare but luckily I can get one of my scripts filled Thursday and see my doctor next week. At the very least I got to get a script for the anti nausea drug, Zofran?
Anyways I really hope you get your script filled tomorrow. Oh well, I gotta go while there is a break in traffic. Later, and best of luck

 

[BourbonMac]

God I've felt like shit all day. So exhausted. I do not want to take Phenibut again but I have no choice if I want to sleep. He'd better fill this tomorrow or I'm screwed. I'm only going to take 2 and then I'll save the last 300mg Gabapentin for 2 hours before bed.

You want the worst roads in America, come to Massachusetts, especially now. People spend all year round fixing the roads from winter and then winter just fucks it all up again because they do a terrible job honestly.

 

[Jnowhere]

God I've felt like shit all day. So exhausted. I do not want to take Phenibut again but I have no choice if I want to sleep. He'd better fill this tomorrow or I'm screwed. I'm only going to take 2 and then I'll save the last 300mg Gabapentin for 2 hours before bed.

You want the worst roads in America, come to Massachusetts, especially now. People spend all year round fixing the roads from winter and then winter just fucks it all up again because they do a terrible job honestly.

I don't know we have the Great Lakes, which really messes with the weather. There can be a foot of snow one day, and the next day it is near 70. Seriously, one day everyone is clearing their driveways and the next day people are riding motorcycles and and people with convertibles with the top down and a couple of days later it is below freezing and people are clearing their driveways again.
Also we have a boarder crossing with Canada and there isn't really a limit to weight of the trucks coming in. At least there wasn't and I am unaware of any changes. That, lousy contractors and bad weather all equal shitty roads. It is weird, you cross into Ohio and the roads are actually nice. But I will take your word for it, I've never been to Massachusetts. But many times infrastructure gets neglected and if your state is like mine: corruption with shitty contractors bribing politicians.
There are countless stories of corruption and some are so petty it is ridiculous.
But then again, I am an Independent who doesn't trust politicians in general.
I really wish I had some advice on your situation, because being cut off from medication that has a horrible withdrawal, that you really need, is a nightmare.
The worst part is, it isn't like they are giving you large doses. They are just doing what the fuck ever, depending on their mood.
It sucks to have serious problems and have your life be in the hands of someone who could care less about you, your situation or the pain that they can cause you. Being at their mercy, is enough to drive anyone nuts.
The worst part is they are trying to teach people in med schools not to give much medication, even if they need it.
Most of these GP's have no time for anyone, well what the fuck are you doing if you hardly ever see patients?
The sad part is there was a time when doctors, not all, actually cared about their patients. But like everything else in this world, it all seems to be getting shittier.
I seriously hope and pray that you can get your script filled tomorrow and hopefully get through the night.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah, doing phenibut 2 nights in a row is not ok. I mean at doses like 750 to a gram I think I'll be ok from withdrawals or anything but still, I've never taken it two days in a row and I'm not trying to get high off it. I'm just trying to get a full night of sleep.

 

[Jnowhere]

Shit, phenibut has me to scared to mess with it. Does smoking weed help at all before you try to sleep?

 

[BourbonMac]

I hit pens mostly, but no, not in withdrawal. It can make things a lot worse like ramping up restless legs, so I don't do it right before bed or if I'm ever withdrawing from anything. I should be OK for the night just from the Phenibut, my last Gabapentin which I should've waited to take, and kava, although I'm short kava because I found out my vendor has been shorting me. I tried contacting people on a kava forum about it and my thread got deleted. They say contact your vendor, I do, but that's not what I made the threads for. It was to know if other's have had the same problem. It's not like telling the vendor will get me anywhere, I know no proof at this point since I've used most of the kava and even if I show them my log of kava use, that's no proof.

 

[Jnowhere]

I have wondered about kava, the stuff from the grocery store was worthless. I don't like ordering stuff, especially from places I am not familiar with. Is there any you can buy at a store that isn't worthless?
I know they drink in some ceremonies in the south pacific, but what does decent kava do?
Anyways, I am trying to figure out what to do about physical pain issues, those fucking politicians, don't care that more people die each year from fentanyl than in the entire Vietnam War. By 10's of thousands at that. So they go after pain patients, I don't give a shit what party they are in, I care about not being in pain so I can fucking eat. So I can sleep and live normally, sorry I am just pissed, that I got a good doctor who like all doctors in Michigan is terrified of the government here, for good reason.
Anyway does the kava really help much and if so how and can it be bought in a store, what you said about your vendor, doesn't inspire much confidence.