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EADD Heroin thread v.XXV -- a quarter centuary of threads if not yet a full decade since the 'drought'...

There is also the issue of the Taliban. They at one point destroyed the opium production in Afganistan while in power. They may do it again. They have problems at home and in the region, with their opium production.
The cartels will eventually gain a foothold in Europe and offer cheap, compact to smuggle, stronger, and more addictive fent.
Most of the heroin is from pakistan, but it is smuggled in from Afghanistan and if the Taliban wants to tackle the hugh drug addiction problem at home, then they will eradicate the opium crop. These are religious fanatics and the idea that they are a kinder, gentler Taliban is absurd.
 
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Besides Europe's economy is questionable just like America and Canada. There will be a demand for cheap powerful drugs. I don't trust the EU to have a strong economy decades from now. You even said it seems like someone is going around showing people how to make cheap synthetic drugs.
 
What exactly was it that the Nobel Prize people gave an award for in chemistry in 2023?
 
There is a hugh housing shortage in the world and rent and property is going up. Less disposable income, hence a need for cheaper street drugs, and cocaine will become too expensive and a cheap alternative is going to hit Europe, especially as drug laws are laxed, not in the UK except for Scotland.
 
Jnowhere said:
I was referring to products other than recreational drugs when talking about a smart chemist. Chemists don't have to be criminals to make money or be responsible for more drugs to abuse. There are other products chemists make
Click to expand...

Did you know that the VAST MAJORITY of medicinal chemists never get a single new medicine to market?

And while it does pay well, it's not as profitable as you may imagine. It's a decent career if you are prepared to move around, put up with the marketing department deciding what is the most likely class of candidate will make the COMPANY the most money and projects being cancelled after years of work because a competitor got there first.

It can be a very frustrating path. Lots of politics.

So history isn't exactly LITTERED with medicinal chemists going rogue, but it's been fairly consistent since the late 1970s. Thomas K. Highsmith would be a good blueprint of someone whose career was going nowhere because of office politics and decided he had a decent idea of what would sell.
 
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Why do all these news agencies say the Taliban has killed opium production and prices are soaring. Illegal opium 90% or so came from Afghanistan, now they are stopping it. The Golden Triangle is not producing much. You can't get Mexican heroin anymore. Columbia, not really. New war on drugs in the middle east. Costs up, supply down. Here comes the Fentanyl.
Cocaine is expensive compared to methamphetamine and who controls that, the Mexican cartels and they will bring it to Europe.
AlsoTapered said:
Did you know that the VAST MAJORITY of medicinal chemists never get a single new medicine to market?

And while it does pay well, it's not as profitable as you may imagine. It's a decent career if you are prepared to move around, put up with the marketing department deciding what is the most likely class of candidate will make the COMPANY the most money and projects being cancelled after years of work because a competitor got there first.

It can be a very frustrating path. Lots of politics.

So history isn't exactly LITTERED with medicinal chemists going rogue, but it's been fairly consistent since the late 1970s. Thomas K. Highsmith would be a good blueprint of someone whose career was going nowhere because of office politics and decided he had a decent idea of what would sell.
Click to expand...
 
America's economy is not great, but at least the pound is $1.27. Hmm, for years around $1.60. Not good. But low taxes and cheap housing in the UK, not at all. British love their drugs and meth is easy and cheap to make.
Who brings the coke to Africa? Then to the UK. The Mexicans can make meth cheap and don't have to rely on Peru, Columbia, Bolivia ect...
But at least there will be plenty of cheap, high grade Morrocan hash.
The same problems that plague North America will come to Europe.
Ndrangheta, will likely have fent and meth to supply Europe.
 
Mexicans control coke and coke is expensive and meth is cheap and can be produced anywhere, and it will replace coke
 
Jnowhere said:
Mexicans control coke and coke is expensive and meth is cheap and can be produced anywhere, and it will replace coke
Click to expand...
In the main the mexican catels do not control the European cocaine supply - this is the main reason for the bizarre situation over the last decade or two where unadulterated cocaine is easier to source in Europe than it is in the USA

Vast majority of Europe's coke travels straight from SA via Africa / Caribbean routes
 
I thought the Mexicans owned some of those routes? I guess I was wrong or they lost control. Too much infighting to control the Caribbean routes I guess, because the Columbian Cartels have been weak for a while.
 
AlsoTapered said:
Opioids are just the sideshow, coke is where it's at:

www.statista.com

Infographic: Europe Is Seeing More Cocaine Seizures

This chart shows the rise in the number of stimulant drug seizures between 2010 - 2020.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

Just to repeat - most of the world is NOT the USA.

It certainly doesn't appear that cocaine sales are being hit by demand-side economics.
Click to expand...
Meth can be made anywhere, cocaine needs coca leaves. It is expensive, compared to meth and Europeans are losing more disposable income to higher taxes, prices in general, but most of all the hugh increases in property for sale or rent in so many areas.
Europe is ripe for cheap meth. It lasts longer, is much easier and cheaper to make, and I see cocaine as a rich persons drug(powder) and I believe methamphetamine will become more popular in Europe as time goes on. ( for the record I am not someone who believes America is the whole world) we are collapsing and so is Canada. Canadians got it worse because of housing prices for the average Canadian; among other issues( finance and socially; things here are getting bad here but Canada is becoming a disaster).
 
Well methamphetamine is NOT common in most of Europe and where it is (far north and far east) it's being made IN Europe. It's not 'socially acceptable' in the way cocaine is. For the record, cocaine is not a rich mans drug any more. It's everywhere.

I should add it's easy to make IF you have the appropriate precursors and methylamine and N-methyl formamide are not legal to possess so people have to use pre-precursors. Plain amphetamine is far more common. Yes, it has a user base but I don't think anyone believes speed is a viable alternative to cocaine.

You have to live here to appreciate that a lot of people can still find £50/€50 a week so on a Saturday night they can go to a pub or club and drink and use coke to offset the alcohol with cocaine. It's that HUGE number of users that makes it such a huge profit-maker.

Social acceptability is one of the most important things. Many non-users will still associate with those who

Look at European news sites and you will see how massive the cocaine trade has become.

It's great to state how economics affects peoples drug use but sadly, it simply isn't borne out by the data,

Fentanyl and nitazenes have turned up in Europe BUT while H is available, people will pay for it. It's only when their is NO alternative that people will accept a vastly inferior product.

But I guess the REAL bottom end of drug users are going with Spice which is just £5 a bag. THAT is a huge problem in Europe. But even then, cannabis is still a vastly larger market in spite of it being significantly more costly.
 
Considering the exchange rate, coke is cheaper than in America, especially the farther you are from the Mexican border.
Socially acceptable? Wow, pot is legal in Michigan, yet you never smell it. It is legal to grow up to 12 plants for personal use. Billboards with pot shops, yet it is still iffy socially.

Do you mean people can do lines at bars or pubs?

I thought that Europe was loosing up on drugs but the UK seems to be trying to copy America in the 1980's; Except for Scotland.
Spice? What is it?
Many people here seem to prefer meth.
Afghanistan is going after poppy producers.
I have read that ethedra( mis) plants are being used to make meth there now. Rivaling opium production.
but with exchange rate, that is under $70 a gram. I have never bought or seen what European's expect a gram to be. Here it is less than a gram easily.
So how many normal lines is that?
Sorry for all the questions but there is what the media says and reality.
The social acceptability has thrown me off a little. Mainly because both major political parties in the UK( except for Scotland) seem to be at war with drugs. They are going after drugs and use appears to be increasing?
I wonder if down the road when enough people are addicted if Ndrangheta will raise prices.
One more question, is firing up the crack pipe socially acceptable also and if so in public?
 
A bit of reading of the EMCDDA would reveal that the average age of H found in Europe is five YEARS. While the west was in control of Afghanistan their were record crops after record crops of opium so I think it's reasonable to suggest that it's going to be MANY years before stocks will be exhausted. History shows that the Taliban had to allow opium production since it's almost the sole source of foreign money. What THEY are concerned about is that the years of overproduction saw significant opium use by Afghan people. It's THAT they seek to stop. AFAIK they don't really care if non-Muslims use opioids.

. In addition, Myanmar is now becoming an increasingly large opium producer since it's funding the Shan States in their civil war with the government.

Poppy growing goes on in MANY nations. Don't forget that for the best part of 200 years the British had opium grown in India and sold to the Chinese. It's an extremely well understood business model and for nations for whom imported Chinese chemicals aren't a practical proposition, opium production will remain.

The US had a slight variation of that model from the 1930s until the 1970s in which crude SE Asian morphine was being shipped by Corsicans from Turkey to Marseille where it was converted to H and from their shipped into the US. As time went on the routes varied but I think the KEY point is that H can still be produced for about $2000/Kg. The mark up is simply VAST but the actual material isn't intrinsically valuable.

In the scheme of things, the Mexicans have taken advantage of what is essentially a self-inflicted wound by the US government in that almost overnight millions of people who had been prescribed opioids medically were cut off cold. The Mexicans had become the ONLY source of H in the US so they could dictate the product.

But if H is still being produced, people will choose H. It's not like fentanyl and nitazenes haven't turned up in Europe. I'm absolutely certain that Mexican groups would love to flood Europe with fentanyl BUT buyers simply won't buy if they have a choice.

That's why I said that maybe at the very bottom of the market it might be possible to sell fentanyl, it would be like Spice. A desperate drug only used by desperate people. Their is no shortage of Spice in Europe and yet it still hasn't replaced cannabis...
 
I have a book, Chasing the Dragon; it was first printed in 1996, it is about meeting Khun Sa.
Personally I believe he was a dumb 4th world hillbilly puppet of the triads.
However it is by Christopher R. Cox. Who went to meet him. He claimed to be taxing opium/ heroin for the Shan peoples resistance against the government of Burma. He loved publicity and interviews and eventually disappeared, not killed just vanished. So maybe the golden triangle will fill the void. There is a thread on the shan people on here. Maybe raising an army or something to fight the government of " Myanmar" maybe the golden triangle will make a comeback and destroy more lives.

I am suffering because of the policies of the Biden administration, I at least can get a small amount of opiods, hopefully more if my pain gets real bad. I have cirrhosis and pancreatic issues. This is the fault of Obama, and biden. The there is the democrap governor of Michigan once again telling doctors blindly what they can perscribe. Canada is run by liberals and it is the opposite.
There is something going on and it is ugly in North America. Conspiracy to destroy North America?
Make pain patients suffer and open up the boarders.
Have you seen footage of what is happening to our large cities run by the left. They all are falling apart. In the warm climate, lots of cheap fent and meth and tent cities as real estate prices sky rocket. No middle class in California. Tent cities of drug addicts and rich leftists.
Maybe Europe will not die but North America is dying.
I will not ramble anymore, but something really bad is happening here, just like Europe, you would have to live here to understand.
 
I have a friend who is a lawyer in the US. Their specialist field is defending doctors and pharmacists that the DEA have charged with overprescribing of opioids.

Essentially the DEA were just looking at an 'average' and anyone who prescribed more was OVER prescribing. My friend would generally just have to point to the demographic of a particular doctor or pharmacists patients. If it's in a town where most of the jobs involve hard physical labour then OBVIOUSLY more people will suffer both acute and chronic pain conditions more than 'average' OR a doctor or pharmacist would be slap bang next to a retirement community or even close to a palliative care centre...

But doctors got scared and reduced opioid prescriptions so they would be under the (unspecified) average and a year later the average would obviously go DOWN. In essence, they brilliantly worked out a strategy that was designed to ensure they would ALWAYS have enough medical professionals to charge.

So the cartels suddenly had a million extra potential customers.

I believe that the DEA has now officially recognized the fault in their idea but it will take a decade for doctors to feel confident prescribing any strong opioid...

except methadone if given once a day... because that was excepted from their plan because it's used that way in substitution therapy. It's NOT the way it's used to treat pain. For pain it's taken two or three times a day but I've talked to several US citizens who truly needed opioids to function and all of them were prescribed methadone and all of them are instructed to take the entire dose at once. I'm 100% sure it's wrong medically BUT it's a pattern I see again and again so I'm almost 100% certain it's because their is a DEA loophole.

While the US is making moves at a state level, when their if a federal agency devoted to the control of drugs, their will never be an end to the drug war. I don't mean that DEA officers are inherently bad people, but it's their career.

If only opium were decriminalized. That would save 100,000 lives a year. For it's 4500+ year history it's only been controlled for about 100 years but the deaths and social harm re almost entirely from that same 100 years.
 
[*snip) a little obvious and incriminating

First line I vomited, had snot pour out my nose and my eyes ran with tears. These Nit...... Lab Opiates taste slightly odd but this gear is stronger than the stuff 3 days ago.
 
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I am in pain, I can't eat much and my doctor admitted years ago I would be on a higher perscription. 8 years ago I was given one year to live without a liver transplant.
Driving to Detroit for 6 months every morning to be put on the donor list, if I passed the piss test, I said no.
Here I am, undermedicated. My state and federal government are to blame.
Not my doctor, he agrees but can't prescribe more. According to what I have read, the maximum dose in 24 hours is 8 times higher than what I get. By state law I can't get more.
I should be dead, now I can't sleep, barely eat and when I do sleep it is a couple of hours every 36 to 48 hours.
I am not suicidal, if I was I would be dead. My little sister who was epileptic and had a bunch of medical problems couldn't get pain relief for other medical issues. Her drug overdose was ruled a suicide; I disagree but now am starting to wonder.
If I were suicidal I wouldn't be here.
For those familiar with my posts, I am different person than I use to be. I am miserable, short tempered and angry individual who just wants pain relief. I should be dead. Pain changes a person, my could be easily dealt with. I had a break, no more pancreatitus, so I took my self off 24/7 morphine er.
Now I have other pains and am a completely miserable asshole.
What do I benefit from pain, other than lack of sleep, anger and hopelessness.
Now I am chronically nauseous and hungry but can't eat.
I wanna thank the democrat governor of Michigan for lowering what doctors can prescribed again. Also president biden. Let's see the Chinese and the Mexican drug Cartels smuggle in illegal fentanyl and their solution is to make chronic pain sufferers, suffer more.
Congratulations you have done nothing but make millions of chronic pain patients suffer more.
I was believe it or not a nicer much more compassionate individual till things got bad. Ok fine I did to myself, but it could be helped, it ain't my doctors fault. It is the politicians, sorry but the dems are leading the charge. The liberals in Canada have done the opposite and are proving they only care about their careers in the exact opposite way.
 
@Zopiclone bandit - the stuff i had was quite light - always in rocks cant remember the last time i got powder. I could not detect any change in taste but then I have never smoked nitrazene perhaps its tasteless - but I was nodding out with euphoria not as people say the other shit is like.
 
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