"tan" mdpv

[x89]

I'm not a chemist but here goes!

I've heard of the tan coloured MDPV that was around in a relatively small quantity before the mainstream pure white and yellowish varieties appeared. It's almost universally seen as a more enjoyable chemical than the newer variety.

If one knew the synthesization process of mdpv and tried to work out what went differently in the process (as has been hypothesized) then working forwards from there (ending up with chemical analogues) I believe I'm right in saying that there would be hundreds of possible alternative forms of the end product.

Could one not then find other chemicals, knowing the synthesization process, which have a tanned appearance as well as drugs with similar effects and using process of elimination end up with a relatively small subset of the chemical analogues that you have from looking at the synthesization of the white mdpv?

I may be entirely wrong, please do correct me if I'm way out!

 

[bluedolphin]

Heh. Couldn't tell you about the chemical differences... but "tan mdpv" was so over-the-top good that I've completely given up on "mdpv" after trying a few batches of white, apparently "real(?) mdpv".

I will say that the tan stuff was 10x as euphoric to smoke, way more addictive and abuseable, and the comedown was also much shorter and easier to cope with. White MDPV gives me basically a 12-hour panic attack for a comedown.

Anyway, I believe this pursuit will probably be fruitless. Trust that a lot of "tan mdpv" former users have searched far and wide for these answers already, once they moved on to try the shitty drug apparently actually known as MDPV.

 

[Ceres]

I'm not entirely sure if I get what you mean, but the only difference between white MDPV and brown MDPV would be how much time/money/effort the chemist synthesizationising it was prepared to spend in the final steps of purification.

 

[greenmeanies]

the idea is, since the white MDPV is probably more pure, then the enjoyable effects of brown MDPV must be from a byproduct. OP wants to know if we have literature on synthesis steps for MDPV, and what the most likely byproduct(s) are so he can get a custom synth of these byproducts sans white MDPV "contamination"

since this is a bit of synthesis talk, it may not be allowed.

 

[TheAzo]

Personally, i question whether this magical tan batch of MDPV was actually MDPV.

It seems like there was _one batch_ of mdpv, that made the rounds everywhere before MDPV blew up, that was so much better.

MDPPP is said to be all around better than MDPV, weaker (so you'd think it was less pure) and more addictive.

MDPBP would be the 4 carbon analog. I'm not aware of testing on it, but i'll bet my bank account that it's a stimulant similar to MDPV/MDPPP. Maybe they mistook the structure of MDPV (i've seen some sources show it as having 4 carbons instead of 5) and prepared this instead?

I do not belive the byproduct theory. Can you suggest any reasonable compounds? I've stared at the structure and thought about how it would be made, and i can't think of how any related compounds that might be active would get in there. I'm sure you could get lots of crap, but it wouldn't be active. The chirality theory is plausible except for the fact that it's ridiculous to think RC vendors would bother with an enantiospecific synth...

 

[fastandbulbous]

It's notthe 4 carbon analogue as it's just a less potent compound than peevee (have tried), identical in most aspects. The tan is, I'm sure, dur to contamination with the dreaded 'amorphous brown tar' from unwanted by products, but for the life of me I can't see anything that'd cross the BBB as they'd all be quaternary amines. Maybe pyrollidine has some physiological effects that combine with peevee (or maybe it's just 'good ol' days' talk, like how MDMA from 20 years ago is better than stuff today. If it's pure compound, it's the same).

Suppose for the chirality thing, the vendors coul;d have started from an optically active precursor ie S or R 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-bromo-1-pentanone, but as that's piss simple to make from optically inactive 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-pentanone, I somehow don't think so

 

[Alcyone]

Can we safely assume that all MDPV batches have been racemic? Or is there a chance that the legendary tan MDPV was optically pure R- or S-MDPV?

 

[fastandbulbous]

I have a little of the tan stuff left and just tried dissolving some in water and playing around with polarized lenses. The tan stuff is racaemic (no light twisting properties, which an optical isomer would have)

Damn will have to plug the soln now or it'll go to waste!

 

[TheAzo]

Damn will have to plug the soln now or it'll go to waste!

Aw, damn, what a pity

Perhaps you can use this opportunity to consider on whether it's still better than the white MDPV. (ie, possibly confirm or rule out the "good old days" explanation).

Have you tried MDPPP? Could the tan MDPV have been MDPPP? (almost everyone says it's better than MDPV, so...)

 

[Ceres]

I have a little of the tan stuff left and just tried dissolving some in water and playing around with polarized lenses. The tan stuff is racaemic (no light twisting properties, which an optical isomer would have)

Damn will have to plug the soln now or it'll go to waste!

Everything recent I've looked at has been racemic but made up of single crystals of either enantiomer and recrystallises to the same. The resolution of it is mentioned as easily done in the usual way, in the old patent, but I've been wondering why it doesn't mention what the point of doing so is. If they knew at the time which was more potent wouldn't they have mentioned it?

I still have some white but "good stuff" from last year I've yet to compare microscopically with more recent examples, but none of the tan.

Can we safely assume that all MDPV batches have been racemic? Or is there a chance that the legendary tan MDPV was optically pure R- or S-MDPV?

if whoever produced it went to the effort chiral resolution, it's likely they would've done a better job of at least decolourising it no?

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Went on something of a shooting spree on the tan stuff, slamming truely insane doses. Been scared to fuck with MDPV ever since. Perhaps in the name of science I'll give it another try. Perhaps if someone has a sample of the tan batch and could have it anayzed that would be a better way to determine if it was really PV tan than whether I lose my fucking mind on the new shit. But that's the problem with PV you often don't stop until it's gone

 

[Alcyone]

if whoever produced it went to the effort chiral resolution, it's likely they would've done a better job of at least decolourising it no?

Agreed. But chiral resolution is not the only way to obtain the optically pure end product. Enantiospecific synthesis of MDPV seems entirely possible.

 

[Ceres]

This is a sample of "white MDPV" bought in early april this year, suspended in mineral oil (a) then heated past it's melting point and allowed to recrystallise (b). Both images are of the same field of view, at the same magnification (100x).
Unfortunately the thickness of the oil layer allows too much space for crystals to grow in 3 dimensions, so they're colourful due to variations in thickness but not much use for spotting angles of light rotation.
In the first image (a) you're looking at fragments of crystals as the stuff comes out of the bag, so don't read too much into the orientation and colour because the same caveat as above applies. At full res though and actually in focus (hah) you can make more presumptions about optical activity of the raw material, but recrystallisation in as thin a layer as possible is the ideal way to observe directions of rotation.

 

[Alcyone]

Those are great images, although I have no idea how to interpret them.
I did polarimetry on synthesis products (mostly triterpenes) back at the uni, but that's more than a decade ago. I never saw anything like this, though. Would you care to enlighten me (us?) on interpretation?

 

[Ceres]

It's the same basic idea as polarimetry really, but melting and recrystallising a substance in that way tends to produce the most typical crystal morphology/growth habit. Sometimes impurities are really obvious too at that point.

This is from the same sample as above, recrystallising out of methanol at room temp and sandwiched between glass. The thickness of individual crystals is more uniform so it's easier to spot a few extra characteristics...especially in the early stages of growth. I'm still learning though.

edit> the green bar is just to highlight the vertical light coloured crystal next to it which becomes extinct after rotating 45 degrees.

 

[x89]

The scientific knowledge in this forum is second to none, I truly am astounded, good job keeping retards like me in the know (to an extent..)
Nothing "of scientific value" was come from the Tan test you did then f&b?

If all MDPV chemicals were racemic (very basic grasp of this after a wiki) then it is indeed only the method of production or some rogue bastard chemical jumping in the mix to throw the world off?!

I would really like to see this proper chemical as opposed to the entirely untested crap now. I believe Dimethocaine is evil!

Will you take me under your wing and teach me the chemistry oh please?!

I love reading the ADD forum, and I hope my posts aren't moronic, I do always put in as much technical information to a post as I can.


Edit: After reading, are any of you likely to make a shot at coming up with this?
Another idea (it's all I'm good for) mix some crap PV with some tan PV and see if you have the tongue / nose / vein to identify the magic.

 

[nuke]

I know someone who has a sample of this original MPDV that was supposed to be amazing, I may eventually ask them for a few milligrams and run 1H-NMR on the sample. But probably not anytime soon.

 

[hugo24]

The original MDPV was white, HPLC/NMR tested and it was pure, great in effects.

I do know however that I once tested alledged MDPV (I think it was different salts) as Diphenylprolinol. Altough it was white (again, color is not telling ANYTHING).

 

[x89]

Are you saying there's very little one can tell about a chemical based on its colour?

 

[TheAzo]

Are you saying there's very little one can tell about a chemical based on its colour?

Correct.

ALL of these chemicals are _supposed_ to be white, with very, very few exceptions.

The brown/tan/yellow is from impurities... the infamous 'amorphous tar' that is the bane of every synthetic organic chemist's existence.

The degree of discoloration varies from batch to batch and chemist to chemist, and has very little to do with how potent the product is, since it takes only a fraction of a % of brown crap to make white powder look disgusting.