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The Big & Dandy Salvia Thread - Second iteration

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^ Hmm i agree with orange. The extra sensory input of food is comforting to the mind. Also i love that description of a salvia trip, its almost perfect

Piercing cosmic carnival...
 
I'm always starving within an hour of smoking salvia. It seems to be a subconscious grounding mechanism, prove to yourself you are real kind of thing.
 
Piercing cosmic carnival... I like it :)

I've never noticed this personally, but two caveats to that:

1. I've smoked salvia about a dozen times but only broke through once; the other times I got various degrees of mental intensity (a couple I would even define as 'tripping balls' in their own right) but no overt visuals.

2. Most of my salvia experiences have come midway through a night of heavy pot smoking, so my appetite was already the plaything of my recreational drug use and any subtle effect may have gone unnoticed or misdiagnosed.
 
A random thought I had.. if Salvia was around back in the '50s the MK-ULTRA project would've had a winner on their hands as a truth serum. It would've been like the ultimate torture tool in high dose and I'm sure they could've gotten just about anything out of anyone with it.
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CIA interrogator after administering salvinorin A drip : "Alright you Red bastard, where are you hiding our nuclear scientists?"

Communist spy: "The guys with revolving doors in their Afros and zippers down their torsos? Last I seen they were riding a conveyor belt down the eternally unfolding pant leg of Satan."

I kid, I kid. Seriously though, I had a thought, too. For a victim in the clutches of one of those sadist sex killers lurking out there or a government torturer, salvia makes the limitless supernatural suffering that haunts our most demented theologians' visions of Hell as real a possibility as has ever existed on earth ... Well, happy smoking!
 
It's just fine.

When I first started looking into The Strange Case of Salvia divinorum, a ridiculously low dose of 5x was considered, & found interesting enough (the back of a head & an arm went walkabout for several minutes) for further investigation. The dose was doubled, break through established, & there it was : the Salvia space. Experiments were carried out twice daily for 5 months & never, never was there the slightest menace or fear. This "place" is swarming with entities (as in creatures) & these faery folk would appear to have something to do with the dead. No one actually goes there, although visitors are welcome.., when they're not ignored i.e. when "they" get to know "you". The visions can be breathtaking, beautiful, astounding & a whole gang of adjectives. There may be flight (shamanic flight lessons - cheap at half the price!), voices (not to be confused with thought loops...), gnomic scene shifters, bustling crowds, elven spinners of nowness. But it is, oh, so difficult to bring home any data that your brothers & sisters can relate to. Salvia is a thing you have to do for your notself. Pros & cons. Like anything. Yet it isn't a plant that'll have you trembling in half terrified anticipation à la DMT. No, I consider it safe, do not require high doses, & it can be an excellent way of preparing for the longer, deep, mushroom trance. And If you grow your own plant, it will, eventually, & perchance, give you more than any bought extract possibly could. %)
 
Thank you everybody for the responses!

complacent orange -- "piercing cosmic carnival"! I like it.

egor -- It could be a "subconscious grounding mechanism". That makes quite a lot of sense since eating is one of the most basic things we do as living beings.
 
Salvia divinorum Time Line

Time Immemorable- Salvia divinorum likely has a long history of human usage in entheogenic and shamanic ceremonies in Central America, but how far back its history goes is unknown. Robert Gordon Wasson has theorized that Salvia divinorum may be the psychoactive known to the Aztec as "Pipiltzintzintli", if this is true then the human usage of Salvia divinorum is likely 1000s of years old.

1938 A.D.- Jean B. Johnson reports learning of a Mazatec tea made from the beaten leaves of a "hierba Maria", and used for divination. This is the oldest verifiable recorded use of Salvia divinorum known, while many theories and speculations exist, the human usage Salvia divinorum has never been proven to be more than 100 years old.

1945 A.D.- Blas Pablo Reko reports a "magic plant" called “hoja de adivinación” (leaf of prophecy), used by Cuicatecs and Mazatecs to produce visions. It was probably Salvia divinorum.

1952 A.D.- Roberto Weitlaner reports a "yerba de María" in Oaxaca. It is said to be used by curanderos.

1957 A.D. - Mexican botanist A. Gómez Pompa collects specimens of a hallucinogenic Salvia plant he describes as "Xka Pastora". His specimens cannot be identified at the species level.

1960 A.D.- R. Gordon Wasson collects samples of S. divinorum, but they are inadequate for botanical identification.

July, 12, 1961 A.D.- Wasson ingests Salvia divinorum, and experiences effects.

June, 1962 A.D.- Sterling Bunnel brings the first live Salvia divinorum plants to the United States from Huautla de Jiménez. Cuttings from this sample are widely-propagated and are commonly available to this day sold erroneously as the "Wasson and Hofmann" strain.

October, 9, 1962 A.D.- Wasson and Anita Hofmann, wife of Albert Hofmann, ingest juice of Salvia divinorum in a ceremony conducted by curandera Maria Sabina.

December, 1962 A.D.- Wasson and Hofmann collect flowering samples for identification. Carl Epling and colleagues identify it as a novel species and give it the name "Salvia divinorum".

1963 A.D.- Wasson tentatively proposes Salvia divinorum as a candidate for the unidentified Aztec plant sacrament "pipiltzintzinli". If correct, this widely-contested hypothesis would imply a long history of cultivation and use, yet this remains unconfirmed.

1975 A.D.- Ott and Diaz contemporaneously observe persons smoking dried Salvia divinorum leaves in Mexico City. There is no known report of Salvia divinorum being smoked prior to this time, and it appears to be a novel use of the plant.

1982 A.D.- Ortega et al. publish a paper describing their isolation of a novel compound from Salvin divinorum, which they call Salvinorin.

1984 A.D.- Valdes et al. identify two Salvia divinorum derivatives which they call divinorin A and B. Divinorin A is found to be identical to the Ortega's salvinorin, so the compounds are re-named salvinorin A and B.

1994 A.D.- Siebert sponsors investigation into several possible mechanisms of action for salvinorin A, but finds no evidence that it interacts with any of a few dozen common neurotransmitters and peptides. Several possibilities are eliminated, but its mechanisms of action remain unknown.

Late 1990s A.D.- Salvia becomes available commercially online and its public visibility dramatically increases.

2002 A.D.- Roth et al. report that salvinorin A is a highly-selective kappa-opioid agonist, solving the long time mystery of its site of action.

August, 2005 A.D.- Louisiana becomes the first state in the U.S.A. to ban human consumption of Salvia divinorum, several other states follow.

December, 2009 A.D.- North Carolina passes progressive legislature banning Salvia divinorum for recreational consumption but exempting scientific research and ornamental cultivation from restriction.

Early 2010s A.D.- Many nations world wide have made Salvia divinorum illegal or restricted it in some way including about half the states in the U.S.A. as well as Australia, Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Italy, Japan, Spain, Sweden and many other nations.

??? 201? A.D.- What will be the next big thing to happen to Salvia divinorum? HELP ME FINISH THIS TIME-LINE AND HELP KEEP SALVIA DIVINORUM LEGAL!!!
 
Salvia divinroum Clones

I know there are lots of various clones (also sometimes referred to as "strains") of Salvia divinorum, I'm trying to make a complete list of all of them and their origins and distinguishing characteristics.



Salvia divinorum Clones-

Salvia divinorum "Wasson and Hofmann" or "Bunnell" clone-
The original clone brought back to the United States and distributed around the world. The name "Wasson and Hofmann" was first applied to the clone in 1992 by the now-defunct ethnobotanical company "…Of the jungle". They began listing it in their catalog as the 'Wasson and Hofmann' clone to differentiate it from another clone they introduced the same year, "Blosser" or the "Palatable" clone. As it turns out, the "Wasson and Hofmann" clone is misnamed. This strain was not propagated from Wasson’s specimens—it was propagated from specimens that were obtained by another remarkable man, psychiatrist and ecologist Sterling Bunnell. It is quite clear from Wasson’s correspondence with Epling and others that he never brought live specimens of S. divinorum to the United States. The specimens that he obtained were all dried and pressed in Mexico. This clone is known to be both potent and reliable.


Salvia divinorum "Blosser" or "Palatable"clone-
A clone which was collected by anthropologist Bret Blosser in December 1991 and sold by the now defunct ...Of the Jungle ethnobotanical company.

Salvia divinorum "Cerro Quemado" clone-
A descendant of a Salvia divinorum plant collected by L.J. Valdes,III, (the first person to isolate Salvinorin A, the active chemical in Salvia divinorum) near the village of Cerro Quemado, Mexico in the 1990s.

Salvia divinorum "Luna" clone-
This is an unusual clone was discovered growing in a patch of the "Wasson/Hofmann" clone. It is either a sport of the "Wasson/Hofmann" clone that sprung up from the base of the surrounding plants, or it may have originated from a seed that fell from the neighboring plants. Given that it is extremely rare for Salvia divinorum to produce viable seeds and that any seedlings produced tend to be very weak, it is most likely that this is actually a sport, possibly some type of polyploid. The leaf morphology is distinctive. The margin is more deeply serrated and the leaf is more roundish than ovate. This is a morphologically distinct clone.

Salvia divinorum "Julieta" clone-
A strain collected by Daniel Siebert from a Mazatec shaman in Huautla de Jimenez (in the Sierra Mazateca, Mexico) in 1999.

Salvia divinorum "La Fuerza" (The Force) clone-
A strain collected by Kathleen Harrison, ethnobotanist and former wife of Terence McKenna, in January, 2001.

Salvia divinorum "Owens" clone-
A strain collected by Jack Owens on Cerro Rabon (in the Sierra Mazateca, Mexico) in June, 2003. Jack Owens was a major supplier of dried Salvia divinorum leaves to the US from Mexico. He died at the beginning of September, 2004 and this strain is named in his honor.

Salvia divinorum "Paradox" clone-
A cutting from a seed-grown clone raised by Daniel Siebert in 1994. Salvia divinorum derived from seed grown plants is difficult to find and should contain valuable genetics. Of all of the seed-raised clones known, this is the only one that is visibly unique. The leaves have a slightly mottled appearance. This is a morphologically distinct clone.

Salvia divinorum "Resilience" clone-
A cutting from a seed-grown strain raised by Daniel Siebert in 2002. Salvia divinorum derived from seed grown plants is almost impossible to find and should contain valuable genetics.

Salvia divinorum "Appaloosa" clone-
This is a variegated clone that was discovered by "Sage Student" in 1999. It originated as a sport on an otherwise normal specimen in his collection. The clonal identity of the plant that produced it is unknown because it was purchased from a source that did not identify it (most likely it was the Wasson/Hofmann clone). The cause of the variegation has not been positively identified. It is probably a chimera (an individual containing genetically different tissues) that resulted from a somatic mutation. It does not appear to be caused by a pathological condition. The leaves are marked with patchy white or pale-green areas and the stems have white striping. The amount of variegation is quite variable: some leaves are heavily variegated, while others appear completely normal. Growth of the pigment-free cells is stunted, causing leaf and stem deformations. "Sage Student" describes how this clone was nearly destroyed soon after it was discovered-
"The original plant was nearly destroyed, because when I first noticed it I thought it was diseased. Fearing it would infect my healthy Salvia plants, I hurled it into the woods to die far away from my healthy Salvias. But I then had second thoughts about what I had done, and realized it might not be sick after all but could be a rare mutant worth saving. I had to crawl on hands and knees through poison ivy to retrieve it!"
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This is a morphologically distinct clone.

Salvia divinorum "Phoenix" clone- Ph♀enix (raised from seed in 2006 by Siebert; seed was from Carl's plants)

???

Salvia divinorum "Moon Maiden" clone-

Raised from seed in 2006 by Siebert; seed was from Carl's plants

Salvia divinorum "Jupiter" clone-

Jupiter (raised from seed in 2007 by Siebert; seed was from Jupe's plants)

Salvia divinorum "Aquarian" clone-
This clone was raised from seed in 2006 by Siebert; seed was from Carl's plants.






Salvia divinorum clones collected in the Sierra Mazateca and vegetatively propagated-

Salvia divinorum "Wasson & Hofmann" or "Bunnell" (Collected by Bunnell in 19??)
Salvia divinorum "Palatable" (Collected by Bret Blosser)
Salvia divinorum "Cerro Quemado" (Collected by L.J. Valdés III in 198?)
Salvia divinorum "Julieta" (DS9902 - Collected by Daniel Siebert February 14, 1999)
Salvia divinorum "La Fuerza" (Collected by Kathleen Harrison in January, 2001)
Salvia divinorum "Owens" (Collected by Jack Owens in June, 2003)
Salvia divinorum "Catalina" (KH96 - Collected by Kathleen Harrison July 1996)
Salvia divinorum "Bret Blosser #2" (Collected by Bret Blosser in ???)
Salvia divinorum "Delicious" (DS9901 - Collected by Daniel Siebert February 11, 1999)



Salvia divinorum (Other) Clones-

Echo (#DS9401 - Siebert 1994 seed raised)
Oracle (#DS9402 - Siebert 1994 seed raised)
Paradox (#DS9403)
Enigma (#DS9404 - Siebert 1994 seed raised)
Mystique (#DS9405 - Siebert 1994 seed raised)
Sacred Spring (#DS9408 - Siebert 1994 seed raised)
Hanau (#DS9903 - Siebert 1999 seed raised)
Maka (#DS9904 - Siebert 1999 seed raised)
Ph♀enix
Moon Maiden
Jupiter
Andromeda
Appaloosa
Luna- (#DS9401L)
Resilience
Green Witch Queen
Aquarian


Salvia divinorum "Lost Clones"-

Andromeda
Appaloosa
Valdés #1
Valdés #2


If you have any to add please let me know!
 
It seems so strange y'all merge these thread like this.... nobody is ever going to see this info here.
 
^ I just want to say thanks too. It is appreciated info. I'm glad I found it. :) Good stuff.
 
For those of you that are familiar with DMT and salvia. Which one is more of a mindfuck? I'm more familiar with DMT but haven't blasted off enough to say with certainty that I'ge seen I all because I know I'm just beginning. What I'm really wondering is, if I'm ok with DMT (n,n) and haven't had a bad trip yet, how much will that affect the salvia dimensions? I only have 10x right now. Should I pick up something of a higher potency? Last time I smoked it and just felt really confused and weird for about an hour, tapering off beginning at the 15 minute mark. Any input helps!
 
For what I understand as "mind fuck" and for those who are sensitive to salvia, most likely salvia. However, given your summation of your 10x experience you seem to be in the middle ground between a ride through dimension Q on the conveyor belt and just feeling kind of tingly (I've seen the same dose from the same batch result in radically different effects for different people; I am sensitive to it yet the actual trip doesn't last more than 2 or 3 minutes for me, followed by about 10 minutes of feeling high, whereas Erowid puts the average duration 20 - 45 minutes).

I think there's a decent chance you can still get a full blown trip from one hit if you go for a higher concentration.

Also, check out post 11 on the first page of this thread. That's where I last remember comparing the two drugs to each other (ask if you need help translating!). I think a few others may have chimed in as well.
 
That post did a good job of setting the two on their own separate mountains. Thanks for the referral. The thing with DMT for me is that it seems to not be the 'grab bag' that I feel like salvia could be. I've had similar experiences on it. Salvia seems like it has a wider range of ability but then again I've only had a few DMT breakthroughs. I read a pretty entertaining 10x experience on erowid so I'm wondering now about my little bag. The only thing is, I feel like I NEED to have a sitter based on how I understand the visions to be seen. Which isn't a problem. But it kind of is. *shrugs*.
 
Salvia experiences are extremely diverse even between and individual's experiences, though they tend to share themes. I've come across lots of posts/reports that indicate that the surrounding environment and words that people say to those who are tripping and who are for the most part unaware of what's going on nevertheless manifest themselves within the trip.

For instance, in this thread (I think) one guy reported seeing an open door in his vision and vocalized it. A friend that was trying to fuck with him yelled "close the door!". Within the vision a hand appeared and closed the door he would have otherwise went through. If for most people the salvia trip narrative is half as responsive to language as is indicated by this story, imagine the possibilities for guiding a trip into totally new areas of experience.

I certainly would recommend a sitter. I've been surprised by my body's ability to navigate obstacles like stairs and chairs despite their not really registering as chairs or stairs when I walk around during the trip. However, other people have walked directly into camp fires! Salvia is a legitimately dangerous drug for people who react this way. You won't know what type you are until you have a full trip, and even then, how you react could change. If you don't have a sitter, try to confine yourself within a safe environment where it's hard to imagine hurting yourself (little chance of hitting your head on sharp things, drowning, falling very far, etc). Close the windows!
 
Good info. I'll put it into practice when it happens. I just never seem to be In a situation where I can do it. One day. I'm glad it's so short acting though for I know that it helps to be with DMT anyway. Obviously that doesn't mean the salvia dimesions are as forgiving In the way if time management.

Is there a difference in effects or feeling of the experience like there are in other substances' variety? If so what? I mean how the difference in a MHRB/rue ayahuasca and b. Caapi/psychotria brew is or cubensis shrooms as opposed to cyanescense. They all have different personalities though Idk where/if that possibility Lies with salvia.
As a related note, my current deems feel like a super condensed version of ayahuasca and not like the batch I tried first. Could it be an extract of that prep (psychotria/caapi) or does it just happen that way sometimes?
 
The aspect of salvia that makes it more experientially diverse than other substances in my opinion is that, unlike most other drugs, the content of the trip always manifests itself on a completely immersive level where one's beliefs and identity themselves are building blocks of the trip narrative.

Unlike typical trips from most other substances, you, as a familiar touchstone and arbiter of your perceptions, are taken out as an influential player and point of reference, and thus the trip attains an unhinged kind of freedom. It doesn't revolve around your personality as you are familiar with it now. The lens of your identity is itself recast, and your memories excised and re-written. The color or flavor of the trip isn't so much different between experiences as is your very mode of perceived existence.

In my experience salvia's art is not produced through ego death or dissolution, but through a forced openness to the replacement of my self-concept by seemingly anything. Perhaps I become myself at a younger age, a forgotten co-worker, or maybe a fantastic creature of tangible light parading through the walls, or stranger still, a saw blade making dust of the metaphysical grain of existence. Try to pay attention to the way you come back in stages, to the way the pages fall in the collation of your once-again self . There's insights to be had in contemplating this. Though the resultant understanding may remain a shadow in the periphery of your vision, that shadow's form reaches at you from the furthest spaces of your being.
 
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morbiddoctor said:
What I meant was, all this information about the way drugs work, the Chemistry behind them, etc. Basically the knowledge of them as a whole. By what method has it been accumulated? I research, I read, I take notes. Perhaps I'm just behind.
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Oops, I would've replied sooner, but it looks like this question got mistakenly appended to the "Saliva not working" subthread.

Regarding chemistry and the technical side, I think most people, myself included, do what you do some, and also just glean info from forums like this one. If you really want to talk shop you'll need to read up on neuropharmacology. Advanced drug discussion has a primer here.

If you're more interested in understanding and articulating what these drugs do psychologically then that's more of an individual introspective education. I don't know you, so I'll just give some random tips:

Pay attention to the thoughts and images that seem to pop into you mind at random while you're sober - you'll find that they are frequently influenced by things like simple environmental antecedents and other near subliminal influences. It seems silly, but doing this regularly and consciously will attune you to your own style of thought and help automate self-critical metacognitive habits that will aid in understanding psychedelic experiences both analytically and intuitively. Make a habit of remembering and analyzing your own dreams and the symbols they employ. Describe your thoughts exhaustively in words in your free time. Try to use precise language. Where that won't do, invent new metaphors (avoid cliches - they're too expendable). Start with the banal, things like narrating your day as you go through it, then work up to more difficult experiences. Verbalizing will often clarify your thinking and expose gaps in logic and ambiguities in your reasoning.

I've got to go, but I think you get the idea.
 
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