The Big & Dandy Natural vs. Chemical / Synthetic Psychedelics Thread

[EntheoDjinn]

It's just that these differences don't mean anything more than just that, unspecified differences. There still is no ground to say that one is better than the other.

I quite agree with you on both points. I was just refuting that it was a meaningless distinction. There is meaning of a sort

 

[EntheoDjinn]

Well, IMO the false distinction between natural and synthetic is something that has got to go before we can finally achieve acceptance and legalization of drugs in general. Sure, it's a very long way off, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be working as hard as possible for the cause.

This is a good point. At present in the UK, the "natural" versus "lab created" is used to discriminate between substances like herbal cannabis/hash and cannabis oil. The extraction counts as "processing" and is used as justification to grade hash oil as a class A substance.

Conversely, in the Netherlands, "natural" substances are generally decriminalised. Last time I was there you could buy coca leaves, and I believe you can still purchase fresh magic mushrooms.

 

[Carsick]

^ Right now you can, but that will change soon enough.

 

[inSaMity]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have experienced the spirit of the plant/fungus while tripping on it, and I believe the same applies to synthetics.

I often wonder if the intent of the chemist (and probably the distributors) has any bearing on the effect of the drug.

All that I'd like to say on the matter pertains to this^. When I read that I was knocked back.

The first few times I tried 2C-E it was from the same large batch that came from an unknown source. Everytime I did it, I would feel these aweful feelings/vibes towards my friend "Joe". Like, I envisioned him in my mind, laughing maniacally, or I would just feel raw hate towards him for no apparent reason (other than the fact that I was tripping nuts...) and everytime I kept it to myself because I felt like it was abnormally crazy. I though that it was schizophrenic-type delusions and paranoia, like my friend was out to get my other friends and I, or that he had alterior motives of ill-intent.

Cut to about two or three months after that batch was long-gone and I had the chance to have other encounters with that drug and other psych's without that effect in the least bit:
I was in mid-conversation with a mutual friend of mine and "Joe"s when the 2C-e came up. It turned out that "Joe" had ordered supplies and cooked the 2C-E up himself locked in his room!!! All I could think of was how intense that feeling was about "Joe" and it was almost as though I was experiancing "JOE" in the drug. To this day, that is the only reasoning that I can come up with for the way that batch effected me... as no other batch I've had since has been the same. I'm convinced that he put some of his being into that drug when he made it, which if you ask me is pretty fucking amazing, and interesting, and crazy all at the same time.

And actually now that I think about it putting your being into the product, and the spirit of the creation being a diciding factor in the outcome and quality... aren't those very solid ideals of alchemy??? I was just reading about it not too long ago (which is sort of strange, that this would come up in the wake) and what I was getting was that the final product (in alchemy anyway) would be tainted, or not turn out at all if the alchemist who created it did not focus his attention and his mind on whatever he was doing during certain steps of the process.

 

[nanobrain]

intent of the cook, morphological contamination of the drug's field as well as the geomorphology of the place of manufacture / harvest and karmic charging have more noted effects on the end users' experience, weighted avg against nat/synth. say it with me, 'acacialoids' and repeat as required.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

A chemical is a chemical is a chemical, be it 'synthetic' or not. Personally, I would rather have the synthetics, as they are by definition 'cleaner,' single-entity and much more enjoyable to ingest than plant material. If we have the technology, why not use it to our utmost advantage? I mean, I could do arithmetic and statistics on paper, longhand; but why would I when it is easier and far quicker to pull out a calculator?

 

[PsyGhost]

^That would mean that these plants have a much different purpose then providing a psychoative treat, as they existed long before the human mind did. So saying 'It is the genetic information that allows psychoactive chemicals to be synthesized by the plant or fungi" is kind of implying that the sole purpose of these chemcials in the plant is to interatct with a 'psyche' of sorts.

As to the environemntal tests- well, lets assume that these plants evolved with no relationship to human beings, which is most probably true (besides perhaps salvia)....then it is safe to say that the plants are 'meant' to exist in their current form, but that in no way implies that their function is to bbe eaten for the effects on the mind. We see the alkaloids in these plants/fungi as being the most important aspect....thats our perspective.

For something to pass the evolutionary test, doesn't existence kinda imply that? Synthetic chemicals exist because human minds can make them, therefore they have passed the first "environmental test"- whether they can be real or not.

Lol, I have no idea if my post made sense. Lets pretend it does.

The plants or fungi are not meant to be anything as evolution has no end point product. The plants aren't meant to have psychoactive properties, only that they do as a result of evolution. Humans have had interaction with plants for as long as we have been roaming around the planet. 500,000 thousand years is enough time for potential co-evolution or adaptation. After all, Cannabis spread across the globe wherever humans went. Something the species could not have done by itself. So there is mutual benefit for the plant and the human.

Anyways, my original message was that molecules can carry information, since thats what DNA/RNA do.

 

[swilow]

Well, IMO the false distinction between natural and synthetic is something that has got to go before we can finally achieve acceptance and legalization of drugs in general. Sure, it's a very long way off, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be working as hard as possible for the cause.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude, I was just poking fun at the use of the term 'preaching'.

I think a lot of people are getting confused on this issue. Its not enough to say that because humans are 'natural' (REALLY???? ) that anything that comes from human hands is therefore part of nature. Unfortunately, that argument cannot be applied to plastic bags. Are they natural or synthetic? Well, their natural, therefore their intensely long degradation periods whereby they ruin entire eco-systems is also natural. Also, so is pollution (we're just freeing up the carbon maan) rape, genocde, nuclear bombs, paedophile rings, bad music, Adolf Hitler...etc.

Most people seem to be actually suggesting that natural IS better, because your all pretedning that synthed chemicals are natural becuase of the maker. So where does we all stand?

Personally, I know that mushrooms and DPT are very different. One is an organic compound that evolved its lifecycle (presumable) on earth, another is the result of specific manipulations to aqcuire that chemical. Natural and synthetic I rather use as adjectives then nouns, as I don't see that they do more then describe one aspect of something.

The plants or fungi are not meant to be anything as evolution has no end point product. The plants aren't meant to have psychoactive properties, only that they do as a result of evolution. Humans have had interaction with plants for as long as we have been roaming around the planet. 500,000 thousand years is enough time for potential co-evolution or adaptation. .

Can I ask why 500,000 years? That, for starters, is a tiny drop in the evolutionary scale- very little would have changed since then, had humans not meddled.

Anyway, I do see evolution as a process of things drawing closer towards either a perfection or karmalessness. I don't see lack of purpose on earth.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

................. If we have the technology, why not use it to our utmost advantage? I mean, I could do arithmetic and statistics on paper, longhand; but why would I when it is easier and far quicker to pull out a calculator?

I could make an incredibly tasty, nutritional and aesthetically pleasing 3-course meal for me and my friends: by why would I when it's easier and far quicker to nip down to McDonald's and buy a shitburger

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Well touche, but then again, most of the synthetic psychedelics I have experience have been way, way better than a shitburger. Does that come with shit fries and a large diet crap?

 

[Ugster]

I often wonder if the intent of the chemist (and probably the distributors) has any bearing on the effect of the drug. I mean, if you're a psychedelic evangelist who simply believes that everyone should be able to have the psychedelic experience if they wish, is that not better than someone motivated only by profit? While this is most certainly not a logical explanation, neither is the experience of a plant spirit logical. The first time I tasted a chemical of my own making, it was an experience beyond explanation. I thanked the cacti for their inspiration, Shulgin for his sheer brilliance and creativity, and the universe for simply being, making it all possible.

I just wanted to comment on this, I've had these same thoughts before I definitely think it's true to a certain extent... I've had a few different batches of lsd where I was aware of the approximate dosage, and even though some of them were completely similar microgram wise I would definitely get a much better feel off a specific kind, which normally happened to be the ones I knew came from more authentic and less profit driven sources. Perhaps this simply had to do with purity but for some reason I kinda doubt it...

It's kinda like people who really know how to cook food well because they put their heart and soul in it.

 

[inSaMity]

^^^ Hell yeah, that's a GREAT example... it's the same with food! Some people can just cook, and some people just can't. The peopel that can usually enjoy it and definately focus a different sort of attention into it than those who don't. And the taste reflects that.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

So many people have described the phenomenon of having either "really good" or "mediocre" acid; I wonder how much of a role set and setting play in the perception of quality. Realistically, LSD == LSD == LSD, it all should be the same chemical as long as the overall dose is the same--the side products (iso-LSD, l-LSD, iso-l-LSD) formed during synthesis aren't thought to contribute all that much psychically, right?

Then again, since it almost impossible to know the exact dose of LSD being consumed, I assume most doses are simply estimates +/- a std. dev. of ~30-50 ug. So a dose reported as 100 ug could actually be 150 ug (and perceived as great), or 50 ug (perceived as threshold).

 

[takerefuge]

ever get the feeling?

just a general query into something i think about ....

ive taken acid and magic mushrooms a few times in my life mushrooms a lot more than acid ... for the reason that when i take acid it can be awesome but i always slip into a bad trip but with mushrooms i have never not even on my first time had a bad experience

i came to the complete conclusion that its because mushrooms are organic they grow from the earth and i always feel so close to nature when i take them where as acid makes me feel like im disrespecting nature as if its a false trip its hard to describe

anyone else get similar feelings??

 

[theotherside]

No....I get the best trips of my life where I connect to nature and feel one with the universe from LSD and 2c-e much more so than mushies or mescaline. Mushrooms feel "dirty" to me and can be a bombastic short trip that doesn't teach me much.

 

[Stoner Witch]

No, not at all.

 

[takerefuge]

hmmm maybe i take them round the wrong type of people

2c-e was a strange one for be i felt amazing on it at some points but id been tricked into taking it by these scumbags who told me it was like mdma
i mean its my own fault for being so ignorant
but i think if the chance came back i would enjoy it a whole lot more

i

 

[theotherside]

They are all keys to the same door if you know what I mean. If mushies work for you, than there is no need to try 2c-e again.

 

[cosmic charlie]

2c-e was a strange one for be i felt amazing on it at some points but id been tricked into taking it by these scumbags who told me it was like mdma

I like 2c-e more than MDMA personally , but I'm more into psychedelics than empathogens

LSD is a much smoother ride for me than mushrooms have ever been. The peak of a high dose mushroom experience can make me extremely anxious at times. While I can take high doses of LSD and handle it very well. I love them both though honestly , they each serve there on purposes. I find that mushrooms are ideal for when your looking for the type of trip that can destroy your ego. Ive come to many profound realizations about myself while under the influence of mushrooms.

 

[takerefuge]

yeah i defintly know what you mean its just so beautiful to be so close to nature

i always feel sad the day after and you walk past people who drop litter and trample over everything with disregard
i wish everyone could experience the love and happiness that being with nature can create