Ketamine salts solubility

[paracelsius]

^ Too bad you can't patent it.. you'd make million$ for sure. I found those Janssen compounds quite interesting!

 

[AlsoTapered]

Library Genesis

libgen.li

There's the paper on the long-acting derivatives.

One could patent it's use in the treatment of opioid dependence. I'm a medicinal chemist, not a clinician so it's not something I could do.

BTW I think I NEED to say this. The picture you see of a molecule is a diagram, not an image. Complex chemicals are 3D structures and however you do it, if you attempt to display such a thing in 2D it is inevitably an estimation at best. I say this because it's apparent some people don't 'get' optical isomerism much less things like molecular overcrowding that results in multiple enantiomers. That's not an insult - some people have lives... I just have organic chemistry.

 

[Soulfake]

If Tianeptine is a free acid and Desmethyltramadol is a strong base, would they form some kind of salt or ester together? (I'm using Tia, odT and Pregaba in roughly equal doses along with Kratom for withdrawal from Etazenes, works really good, I'd love to know how a triple prodrug of them would feel like, I have no problems with slow onsets if the quality is good)

 

[Pill Clinton]

What technique the wheel filter/micron filter method is that what your talking about? If you know another method please lmk as I'm winging it here lol.

the whole idea of putting it in a nasal spray is amazing to me I've been lol into the scene since 2006 the thought has crossed my mind however I'm not great at science lol. It would seriously solve all my problems if i could just get Dilaudid, Ritalin, Coke & Roxi's all in one nasal spray lol. It's like a wet dream esp. when I can get my hands on pure white mixed with opana.

 

[AlsoTapered]

The stability of solutions is problematic and multiple actives in solution would make things even more complex.

I'm presuming that is why sublingual and buccal administration are favoured if onset time is especially important for that particular medicine.

 

[Echotango]

The stability of solutions is problematic and multiple actives in solution would make things even more complex.

I'm presuming that is why sublingual and buccal administration are favoured if onset time is especially important for that particular medicine.

Ya the stability of the solution is what i need help with deciding the best "solvent" for what i need. I would also be making seperate solutions in separate nasal spray bottles for each "active medicinal ingredient" I put into them.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I think I mentioned that almost every medicine you can think of has been developed as a nasal spray and the methodology patented. I couldn't tell you the best search terms but from what I've seen, people have done the work and patented it.

Preservatives are the rule rather than the exception. It's also worth remembering that they would never use tap water but dH2O because, well, you really need a pure solvent to ensure consistency. Sorry if that's obvious - I didn't intend to patronize you.

 

[Echotango]

I think I mentioned that almost every medicine you can think of has been developed as a nasal spray and the methodology patented. I couldn't tell you the best search terms but from what I've seen, people have done the work and patented it.

Preservatives are the rule rather than the exception. It's also worth remembering that they would never use tap water but dH2O because, well, you really need a pure solvent to ensure consistency. Sorry if that's obvious - I didn't intend to patronize you.

No thank you... that's exactly the kind of helpful HR information I'm seeking by making this post. I did not even think of the purity of my H20 for using it with.

 

[AlsoTapered]

BTW I'm sure people have noted the site all the refs are pulled from.

My methodology is:

1- find the DOI of references
2- Google Scholar to find the name and publication information of the references
3- to use library genesis to obtain the references as .PDF files.

Works 99 times out of a hundred and it's FREE. No magic employed, nothing up my sleeves. I might add that about the only thing I do is work through the hundreds of references to present the most useful. This is obviously subjective on my part but everyone can do it. I do not have Reaxys at the moment - you will be the first to know when I do.

 

[Drag2019]

Just for the record is there anything I should know before attempting to do this with ketamine or similar dissociative substances of it's class?

As I mentioned before I'm obviously going to make each ACTIVE "ingredient"/substance in separate nasal spray bottles for each different 1 I make with whatever necessary inactive ingredients for maximum efficacy.

 

[Skorpio]

Main issue is that these solutions can't be kept indefinately as Someguyontheinternet mentioned. Even if sterile, using the sprays will contaminate them, and the microbial growth clock will start ticking.

Also, not mentioned in this thread, but cocaine is not very stable for long periods of time in water. The water molecules will attack the ester, breaking down the cocaine over time.

 

[Drag2019]

How long do I have before the nasal spray bottle gets to contaminated/risky to continue using and would wiping it off with alcohol wipes or something similar to cleanse any bacteria on it, be beneficial at all?


What would be better than water to use for cocaine and would I want to use a different "solvent" than what is considered preferred to use for Cocaine compared to Ketamine I'd guess would require a different "solvent" but I honestly got no idea lol?

 

[brother'skeeper]

Hi. I found this on an anonymous message board and thought maybe it might be relevant if ridiculous.

"
Sweet Nothings
Anonymous, freely given CC0 public domain

An idiot layman, a hack and a dupe,
loves broadly and deeply, so here is the scoop:
I can't know for certain, but may surely surmise
That among the great learned, some surely are wise.

Preface: I know nothing of chemistry or drug design, but sometimes you got to mix it up and make a fool of yourself. Some of these probably don't work, some of them are probably lackluster and suck, and some will probably have you on a magic carpet ride at the correct dose. Caveat emptor. These are some notes.
I'll start with MDPE the mood lifting decongestant or 2CB-PE, your three am cold medicine (glow sticks not included.)
TMK and DMSK (modelling software showed potential broad range of mostly sweet looking receptor affinity by homology, including cannabinoid receptors, the dosage might suck, but I noticed from trial and error that the SAR in that area was really strange and not PEA-like. Either way, I got some pretty cool results with these two, but I'm not sure what you might have to say.)
*Piracetam with amphetamine tail very well may work, and then also weird stuff like para-chloro-methyl-phenyl-piracetam (maybe new but no big deal) but this (r,s,) with an amphetamine tail instead of the piracetam tail might maybe be pretty cool.
*4-acetoxy-methamphetamine
*4-acotoxy-amphetamine
4-acetoxy-N-pyrrolidone-amphetamine
And has anyone seen 5-HO-MA? 5-HO-EA?
Is there any promise in 4-CL,5-HO-MA?
5-meo-N-pyrrolidone-tryptamine, and the alpha methyl?
Pihkal tryptamine flips, particularly the heavenly half dozen as starting points
Mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxytryptamine)
DOM (2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylalphamethyltryptamine)
2C-B (2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromotryptamine)
2C-E (2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethyltryptamine)
2C-T-2 (2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthiotryptamine)
2C-T-7 (2,5-dimethoxy-4-propylthiotryptamine)

So then what about all the fruitful terminal amine substitutions of the tryptamines, like that fancy Friday night classic 5-meo-dipt and friends, and the above mentioned dipt?
2C-B-Amino-Indane
4-aco-amino-Indane
Tryptamine-FLY? Sort of, but squished but promising looking to my foolish intuition

Di-benzofuran-Tryptamine and Alpha-methylated version, exciting N-Methyl, ethyl, propyl, etc. versions like the pretty looking and pretty hopeful

Di-benzofuran-DIPT and the

Like a fly compound with no 4-sub and the benzofuran rings smoothed together, and plenty of room for modifications to the alpha position and the terminal amines

Got me thinking about
[(7R)-3-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxy-bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
But instead with the smooshed benzofuran rings of a fly compound instead of the bromine and dimethoxies.
Also, the alpha methyl of this is like, has anyone done this? That could be neat. N-methylated? Is this less desirable?
The MD and Heavenly half dozens of these could be good? And what about these?
3-(4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)azetidin
A fly of these two & heavenly half dozen, MD versions, all that.
I would like to call attention to
MDMAMT
The reasonably beautiful sounding MDAET
5-meo-MDAET or
5-methyl-MDAET
And just a host more of these worth looking at from a conceptual view such as
MDAMDIPT
Tryptamine-FLEA
Benzofuran subs.
The previously discussed AMDIPT and friends.
And on and on with the above, like 2C-X-Tryptamine-Mipt,Dipt,Malt,Dalt,so on.
In fact, it's obvious, but you can tryptamine flip a whole lot of pihkal and maybe get some wild and wooly new activity relationships leading to new compounds, new lines of thinking, and new doors opened in human experience.
TMK has a broad receptor activity by homology, and with no SAR clues as to dosage, this sort of medicine tickle the CB1 and CB2 looks kind of, well, smashing!
Has anyone done methoxetamine with a sulfur on the methoxy’s oxygen? And the a TMK with a central sulfonyl thiol thing like aleph?

Has anyone made 2C-B with a beta-ketone? Or Methcathinone DOX or Beta-Ketone-bromo-dragonfly?
What else

Could a tryptamine with an azetidine’d terminal amine be active? I have no clue on synthesis, but might be good? Tryps are good, azetidine'd look promising, both are better or inactive or what?
I like euphoriants- can 4mma be improved ‘till ya’ drool? By gum, I don't know.
What about something like TCB-2 ? But with a 4-methyl instead of the methoxy's and bromine and the with an alpha methyl on the amine chain? Is this my dream of skanky nasty mephedrone you could fit on a hit of blotter or drop of sweet breath? I think it very well could be a little bit better.
Alpha methyl Jimscaline, sure, but can we strip off the methoxies, slap on a methyl on the alpha position, on the amine, and then put a chlorine on that funky fresh four position? Sounds like fun to me.
I guess maybe worth mentioning is 5-methoxy-MD-methyl-Aminorex like MMDA from nutmeg and then what about the DMMDA-2 of this?
…and maybe even, and this one is dumb but hopeful
Bromo-aminorex-fly? I bet that would work pretty good, actually.
Ok, I'm feeling like I'm embarrassing myself enough here. I have no idea about all this and what works and what doesn't in synthesis, but I figured most of this sort of plenty obvious work here is worth mentioning because maybe some of these could help people feel love, give love, get love better.
Also beta-ketone-amt

Last of all, Jimscaline looks great, and ZCB looks awesome, too. So what about bridging the amine chain of Jimscaline like ZCB? Sounds good! What about changing it's position to the tail most junction of the Indian ring, like the tail of a kite? I would be interested in pursuing Jim-ZCB or MD-Jim-Z whatever and also Dibenzofuranyl-Jim-Z or Jim-Z-Fly whatever. I will try to figure out a more accurate.
1, azetidine,phenyl,____indane
These a mess! I don't know chemistry!
1, azetidine,4,bromo,dimethoxyphenyl,indane
1, azetidine,phenyl, 3,4methylenedeoxy-indane
1, azetidine,phenyl, dibenzofuranyl indane
And I want to make a fool of myself even more here, but here is the compiled list of the hamfisted dancing in the dark done today…
There are probably a bunch more that I could figure would maybe work, but here they are, with a star next to the ones that I particularly like.
BIG EMBARRASSING LIST OF SILLY NONSENSE
MD-Pseudoephedrine
2CB-Pseudoepehdrine
Trimethoxetamine
Trimethoxetamine with the oxygen of the center oxygen replaced with a sulfur
Piracetamphetamine
Para-chloro-phenylpiracetamphetamine
para-chloro-methyl-phenyl-piracetamphetamine
Para-chloro-methyl-n,methyl-phenylpiracetam
4-acetoxy-methamphetamine
4-acotoxy-amphetamine
5-aco-MDA
4-acetoxy-N-pyrrolidone-amphetamine
3,4,5-trimethoxytryptamine
2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylalphamethyltryptamine)
(2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromotryptamine)
(2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethyltryptamine)
(2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthiotryptamine)
(2,5-dimethoxy-4-propylthiotryptamine)
2C-B-Amino-Indane
4-aco-amino-Indane
Di-benzofuran-Tryptamine
Di-benzofuran-dimethyl-Tryptamine
Di-benzofuran-DIPT
Alpha-methyl-di-benzofuran tryptamine
Alpha-ethyl-di-benzofuran tryptamine
Dibenzofuran-bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
Dibenzofuran-bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine Alpha-methylated
Dibenzofuran-bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine Alpha-methylated, N-methyl
3,4,5-trimethoxy,bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylalphamethyl,bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethyl,bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthio,bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
2,5-dimethoxy-4-propylthio,bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine
Dibenzofuranyl,4-Br,phenyl-azetidin
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)azetidin
2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylalphamethyl,phenyl)azetidin
2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethyl,phenyl)azetidin
2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethyl,phenyl)azetidin
2,5-dimethoxy-4-propylthio,phenyl)azetidin
MDMAMT
MDAET
5-meo-MDAET
5-methyl-MDAET
MDAMDIPT
Tryptamine-FLEA
Benzofuran -MDMAMT
AMDALT
4-aco-AMDIPT
2C-B-Tryptamine
2C-B-DIP-Tryptamine
Trytpamine-DOB
BK-2C-B
BK-DOX
BK-Bromo-Dragonfly
[(7R)-3-methyl,bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]alpha-methyl, N-methyl,methanamine or something like this
1, azetidine,4,bromo,dimethoxyphenyl,indane
1,azetidine,phenyl,3,4methylenedeoxy-indane
1, azetidine,phenyl, dibenzofuranyl indane
Alpha-methyl-jimscaline
Alpha-methyl,N-methyl,phenylaminoimdan
5-methoxy-MD-methyl-Aminorex
Bromo-aminorex-fly
5-HO-MA
4,FL,5-HO-MA
5-HO-EA "

 

[unodelacosa]

This Synthetic Outline Cleverly Avoids The Harsh Reaction Conditions (either H+ or -OH with heat in reflux) Which Could Destroy The Acetal But Which Are Required For The Reaction Of An R-Cyano Functional Group To An R-CO2H Functional Group.

Looks like it could be finicky near the end, but I like what's going on here.

 

[PharmaTrain]

So we all know not all generics are equal. I have tried all Clonazapam generics and even brand name. The Teva brand always worked best for me and lasted the longest besides Brand name. Now without notice CVS has switched manufacturers to Advagen Pharmaceuticals (Indian) company. So since I had these once before, I excepted them due to the new rules that I would have to contact the doctor to write a new script saying "dispense Teva brand only". This is when I ran out keep in mind. Now I researched into the chemical composition of this type of Clonazapam and to my surprise it's a new designer drug made differently besides inactive ingredients. Lets take a look at the difference in these 2 generics:

DESCRIPTION​

Clonazepam Tablets, USP, a benzodiazepine, is available as scored tablet with debossing Λ containing 0.5 mg of clonazepam and unscored tablets with debossing Λ and Λ containing 1 mg or 2 mg of clonazepam respectively. Each tablet also contains lactose monohydrate, polyethylene 66 67 69
glycol, microcrystalline cellulose, croscarmellose sodium and magnesium stearate, with the following colourants: 0.5 mg-FD & C Yellow 6 Al Lake, D & C Yellow 10 Al Lake; 1 mg-FD & C Blue 1 Al lake and FD & C Blue 2 Al lake


Chemically, clonazepam is 5-(2-chlorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro-7-nitro- 2H -1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one. It is a light yellow crystalline powder. It has a molecular weight of 315.72 and the following structural formula:
That was Alvagen. Now look at the 5 formulas Chemically:

https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/clonazepam.html

‘New/Designer Benzodiazepines’: An Analysis of the Literature and Psychonauts’ Trip Reports

NPS belonging to the benzodiazepine (BZD) class, e.g., ‘legal/designer BZDs’/‘research chemicals’, have recently emerged in the drug (mainly online/virtual) market. While certain NPS belonging to the BZD class possess ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This shows that the name on the bottle called Clonazepam is not what were used to with Teva chemically speaking but a crude cheap novel designer knock off without proper testing backed by trials long term on humans. One the first link you'll see the 5 formulas and the 2 which have been on the books since 1971. The other 3 are applied patents pending. Now look at the Teva generic formula:

DESCRIPTION​

Each tablet, for oral administration, contains 0.5 mg, 1 mg, or 2 mg of clonazepam USP, a benzodiazepine. Each tablet also contains corn starch, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and povidone. Clonazepam tablets USP, 0.5 mg contain Yellow D&C No. 10 Aluminum Lake. Clonazepam tablets USP, 1 mg contain Yellow D&C No. 10 Aluminum Lake, as well as FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake.


Chemically, clonazepam, USP is 5-(o -chlorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro-7-nitro-2H -1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one. It is a light yellow crystalline powder.
IF you have looked at the 2 formulas and used the links provided , you'll see the difference and the risks of these new untested designer drugs using research chemicals and saying it's Clonazepam when it should be labeled "Clonitrazolam". Your pharmacist won't tell you this even if they know. They are putting sneaky Pete in our meds without notice. On Reddit concerning this Advagen clonazepam most people hate it due to lack of potency and they say it doesn't last. I took 1 tablet to see and it was strong at first but dropped off quickly. It lingers but not like the Teva's.
Since these pharmacies are keeping patients in the dark like CVS , I'm going to get the brand name Clonazepam which is the same formula since 1971. This is why going with the brand name is more trusted than these generic companies. Also no more CVS. They have pulled this swiching of preferred generics too many times. I undershand there are shortages but not the TEVA Clonazepam 1 or 2 mg tablets. If we can't trust a pharmacy to be honest we should not be taking anything from them. If they are ignorant of what's going on they shoulf not have that job. We need to hold these places accountable especially at the local level. THIS IS WHERE CHANGE STARTS. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I don't see a difference between the chemicals you posted, I believe the "o" is for ortho which designates a position on the ring, which may be the 2 position

 

[Skorpio]

I'm not quite sure how you are making the inference that the Advagen pills contain clonazolam (aka clonitriazolam).

The rhodium link shows that clonazepam is a precursor in the synthesis of clonazolam, but I am unsure of why you think they are in the Advagen pills. Due to the additional steps for synthesis, clonazolam will be more costly per mg. As it is more potent, I am not sure if industrial production of the finished product would be cheaper than clonazepam in a per-dose manner.

Clonazolam is also much more potent then clonazepam. I am not into benzos myself, but from what I have heard, the two feel rather different (anybody experienced please chime in though).

Generics can often feel different due to different forumulations of inactive ingredients, but it would be extremely surprising (aka near unheard of) for a generic drug to simply use a different compound. Generic drug manufacturers still go through regulatory approval, and this kind of thing would get them shut down. I do not think that clonazolam's cost per dose is low enough compared to clonazepam to justify the potential financial risk of getting caught swapping these.
If you were buying clandestinely pressed pills however, they could easily not have what they say is in them.

 

[Antares]

Did you see the part in your own link that said clonitrazepam is whatever "6-(2-chlorophenyl)-1-methyl-8-nitro- 4H-s-triazolo(4,3-a)-(1,4)-benzodiazepine" is? To me, that looks very different from the two near-identical ones you posted for the clonazepam generics, and in multiple places. The numbers literally at the start are different. Where's the "methyl" part? Where's the entire triazolo bit? Clonazolam/clonitrazepam kinda requires that, being a triazolobenzo, no? Neither of your generics look similar to this.

The pharmacy is not going to give you RCs unless some pharmacy staff straight up swapped the pills out to illegally pocket something (which seems like a completely different scenario from what you're claiming). It's actually probably cheaper for them to just give you real clonazepam tbh. If it's not working as well for you it's either you tricking yourself into thinking it won't work, or your body just doesn't process that particular generic's filler ingredients as well.

 

[PharmaTrain]

All of you make great points and myself not an expert in chemical engineering, I see where I went wrong. Thank you for showing me my error. It must be the inactive ingredients in the Advagen generic clonazepam. I'm so used to the Teva's and it's formulation besides my sensitivity to some chemicals, my anger ran deep in the treatment of these new techs at the pharmacy. They could've serviced me better but since their treatment I will be switching to another pharmacy. Thanks again all of you.

 

[Jnowhere]

Hey, pharma train they, let me back