It can't be pure 3,4-MDMA but have different effects than "traditional" MDMA. Your statement is scientifically not true....
WHY?
MDMA has 7 forms.. EVEN as pure MDMA... We call them polymorphs or in the case of HYDRATES false polymorph... Polymorphs (anhydrous and solvate/hydrate forms) may resolve these bioavailability problems, but they can be a challenge to ensure physicochemical stability for the entire shelf life of the drug product
There are 3 anhydrous and 4 hydrates of MDMA. DO YOU KNOW if you have form 1,2 or 3... or do you know if you have 1 of the 4 HYDRATES? I bet you dont... Do you have a XRD to test which form or hydrate you have?
SO yes you can have pure even WHEN MAPS synth it and it can 3,4-MDMA but have different effects than "traditional" MDMA due to bioavability etc...
For over 100 samples, only one sample was found to contain anhydrous MDMA·HCl. This seized sample had a peculiar appearance as a very fine and dusty powder. It is noteworthy that re-analysis of this particular sample a year after
seizure showed that the MDMA·HCl transformed into its hydrated state as described for model substances in section
3.5. The rareness of anhydrous MDMA·HCl is also depicted in
Fig. 8, where an overlay of randomly selected casework samples (2019 – 2020, The Netherlands) showed that all crystalline samples (
Fig. 8, B) and all tablets (
Fig. 8, C) show the spectral features diagnostic for hydrated MDMA·HCl in their NIR spectrum.
If the bonds or it being hydrate or whatever DIDNT matter...
How come people are putting dutch MDMA in water and having lackluster effects .If Once the compound is dissolved has no effect... Then why has a lot of dutch MDMA been meh. my only guess is there are greater positive and NEG forces within the molecule are at play, doesnt matter if it's water/molly water, doesnt matter if you take it "RAW"in crystals with toilet paper, gel caps etc..
How come my own that was my recrystallized MDMA in dH20 only... that 100% looked like meth and was see thru clear... also caused VERY lack luster effects... It's clear hydrates and the bonds and alike play a greater roll that WE as chemists don't know about..
A possible explanation of this high (almost exclusive) occurrence of hydrated MDMA·HCl in forensic casework in the Netherlands is how MDMA·HCl is produced within clandestine laboratories. The final step in the production process is to convert the MDMA base oil into MDMA·HCl which is typically performed in acetone with concentrated
hydrochloric acid, consisting of a max. 37 % solution of hydrogen chloride in water. Upon MDMA crystallization in the mixture of acetone and concentrated hydrochloric acid, water is included in the crystalline lattice of the MDMA·HCl thus yielding the hydrated form. Anhydrous MDMA·HCl can be produced by using (anhydrous) hydrogen chloride gas to form the MDMA hydrochloride salt. This latter procedure is rarely encountered in clandestine laboratories anymore. Furthermore, when this process is applied, it can be expected that the product will slowly absorb water over time when it comes in contact with ambient moisture.
In materials science, disappearing polymorphs (or perverse polymorphism) describes a phenomenon in which a seemingly stable crystal structure is suddenly unable to be produced, instead transforming into a polymorph, or differing crystal structure with the same chemical composition, during nucleation.
Hydrates have LOWER bioavability...
In most cases, in comparison with anhydrous forms, hydrates are thermodynamically more stable under normal conditions. As a result, hydrates are less prone to dissolve in water and, consequently,
they usually exhibit lower bioavailability, which is an obvious disadvantage in terms of their therapeutic applications [15].Oct 11, 2020
Screening for different crystal properties of an active pharmaceutical ingredient is a crucial part in understanding and evaluating a drug. By crystallizing ritonavir, a drug used to treat HIV/AIDS, from the melt, we were able to grow a new crystal form of the drug at a faster rate than previously reported.The 1998 recall of ritonavir upon the unexpected appearance of the more stable Form II polymorph remains a notorious case of disappearing polymorphs as the presence of Form II inhibited the ability to grow the original Form I.
Thorough polymorph screening is crucial in the understanding of active pharmaceutical ingredients as different polymorphs may exhibit variations in solubility, bioavailability, stability, and other critical properties in the evaluation of a drug.
(1,4,10,11) There are many techniques to induce crystallization for polymorph screening including antisolvent methods, solution-based methods, evaporation methods, high-pressure crystallization, and crystallization from the melt.
(4,11−20) While many recent studies on ritonavir relate to its performance as an amorphous solid dispersion, there have been recent advances in understanding the crystallization of ritonavir.
(4,21−25) After the appearance of Form II ritonavir, two new solvates and an anhydrous form were discovered by Morissette et al.
(4) In 2014, Kawakami et al. published their findings after crystallizing ritonavir from its melt. They detected the appearance of a crystalline form after annealing in a 60 °C oven over a period of several days.
(24) They concluded that the material was Form IV identified by Morissette et al.
(4,24) However, the X-ray powder diffraction (XPRD) patterns labeled as such do not match the Form IV XRPD pattern in the publication by Morissette et al.
(4,24)
Drugs with low water solubility are predisposed to poor and variable oral bioavailability and, therefore, to variability in clinical response, that might be overcome through an appropriate formulation of the drug. Polymorphs (anhydrous and solvate/hydrate ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
EVERYONE CLAIMS... Once the MDMA.HCl is dissolved in solution, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE whether it was hydrated/anhydrous or one crystal polymorph over another. Any intermolecular bonding configurations that were present in the original crystal lattice are broken and replaced with hydrogen bonds with the solvating water molecules. The only difference there could be between these is dissolution time, and that’s negligible....
WIth that
In NIR and FTIR, bands that originate from crystal water are more defined than those originating from bulk water. The reason for this phenomenon is the more restricted energetic distribution of the O -H vibrations of the water that is bound in the crystal lattice [19].
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468170922000674
in the 1930s it was realized that the formation of a hydrogen bond has a profound effect on the frequency of the X-H stretch. This started the infrared investigations of hydrogen bonds, which became the most sensitive and the most widely applied experimental method of studying this phenomenon in clusters and in the liquid and solid phases
When pairs of molecules become associated, the associated molecules are called dimers and the molecular process is called dimerization. Intermolecular hydrogen bonding promotes association and thus has a large effect on the physical properties of a substance. For example, lactic acid has two hydrogen bond donor sites (–OH) and three hydrogen bond acceptor sites (–OH, –OH, double bondO). Intermolecular hydrogen bonding of lactic acid in the vapor-phase causes it to form dimers and this dimerization greatly lowers its vapor-phase compressibility,
When a system possesses multiple hydrogen bonds, cooperativity is a particularly characteristic manifestation, which has important consequences in nanomaterial design [31,32]. While an explanation of the origin of cooperativity is beyond the purview of this review, it is useful to highlight some of the salient features of cooperative interactions. Foremost amongst them is the enhancement of the strength of hydrogen bond. Thus, in water clusters, the average energy of a hydrogen bond progressively increases with an increase in the cluster size. This enhancement of interaction energies leads to a progressive decrease in the intermolecular hydrogen bonding distance and hence significant geometry changes can also be noted. I might not know much admittedly but something is greater at play that I can't quite or have figured out...
I know that Intermolecular hydrogen bonding between drug molecules and biological receptors can be an important interaction for driving potent binding or selectivity. However, introduction of hydrogen bonding motifs into drug molecules can potentially have a deleterious effect on membrane penetration, presumably due to a high water de-solvation penalty. This can have an impact on absorption, cell penetration and brain penetration.
Intramolecular hydrogen bonding (IMHB) can be important for stabilizing a particular ligand conformation, Stahl et al (J. Med. Chem. 2010, 53, 2601–2611) DOI: 10.1021/jm100087s , have completed an extensive search of the CSD and shown the highest frequency of intramolecular hydrogen bonds have planar, six-membered rings stabilized by conjugation with a π-system. A variety of further, far less explored topologies have been identified: Weaker six-membered ring hydrogen bonds containing one sp3 center and, in particular, a number of nonplanar seven-membered and eight-membered ring topologies. Five-membered ring intramolecular hydrogen bonds have the smallest angles and the longest H-bond distances. With N-H as the proton donor, C=O or heterocyclic N appear to be the preferred acceptors.
https://www.cambridgemedchemconsulting.com/resources/molecular_interactions.html
People need to see it as Postive and NEG ions fighting against each other and less as solubility. Hydrogen bonding plays a HUGE role apparently
See? It is not meant as an insult.
