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Sexual Preferences vs "Transphobia"

OT I actually arranged a date with a trans woman not that long ago... I thought why not? Then she stood me up ha. I have never been with anyone trans but I am personally am attracted to femininity, and I have seen many attractive looking trans women. I just don't know, and wouldn't until I was in the moment.

Sexuality is a spectrum, innit?
 
Robi said:
Hope you feel better now unloading and expressing your feelings Foreigner.Care or not, I feel for you.
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Thanks. I just don't like being called a bigot when I'm not one. When someone says that to me, I actually stop and consider if it's true... and I've concluded that it's not true, after re-reading all of my own posts. I live my life very above board when it comes to treating other people with respect and decency when I'm out in the world. Yes, I'm outspoken about the politics, but when it comes to 1 on 1 interactions I am kind to people. As for my sex life, it's very private and personal. I only bring it up here because I enjoy the conversations in SLR. This forum is not a cesspool like social media is.

Trying to make somebody feel guilty or ashamed for lacking in a specific sexual appetite is immoral, delusional and perverted. It's also erasure. The lengthy recent conversation about this in SLR has really helped me to figure this out, so I am grateful. It will also help me to choose my words better down the road when this topic comes up again as it always does.
 
Foreigner said:
I wanted to respond to this but the mods have not reopened the other thread. It was a dumpster fire anyway and I'd start a new civil conversation because I think it's important. Whomever decides to partake in this thread, please avoid name-calling and passive-aggressive nonsense.

I don't agree that not wanting to sleep with a trans person makes one transphobic, if the reason they're not sleeping with them is because of genital configuration. Transphobia implies prejudice and hateful discrimination. I'm personally a gay male and I won't sleep with a man who doesn't have a penis. Some other gay males may feel differently. For example, I know gay men who would accept a blowjob from a woman under certain circumstances because "a mouth is a mouth," but I wouldn't. It doesn't mean I hate women. I want everyone to be happy and end up with someone who is into them.

Claiming that because I won't sleep with trans men that I am transphobic is like saying I'm misogynist (or "heterophobic") because I won't consider sleeping with cis women. If I am not attracted to vaginas then why would I have sex with somebody who has one? There is no -phobia involved. It is literally about where my carnal attraction does or doesn't happen. There is no ideology driving it.

I also don't agree that this is exactly the same as refusing to be with someone based on their race. If you are not physically attracted to someone then you're not physically attracted to someone, but if you specifically have ruled out an entire ethnicity then that is racist because people come in all kinds of configurations within an ethnicity. Trans men on the other hand all have vaginas (or fake penises) and if my requirement is a natural penis then that naturally means I will not be able to be with trans men -- anymore than I would be able to be with cis women. It is physically impossible for me to be turned on by a vagina.

Claiming this incompatibility is equivalent to racism is delusional. It is also the erasure of sexual orientations. It's pretending that human nature isn't real.

The double-standard here is interesting. Trans social movements claim that gender and sex are separate issues yet I am not allowed to say that I value trans men as people even though I am not attracted to their vaginas without being called transphobic. To me that is cognitively dissonant and a tell-tale sign that there is something wrong with the politics and psychology driving this.

SJB, I understand your sentiment about how in an ideal world you could be with anyone. I think that is very ideological, and the kinds of people who tend to talk that way are somehow bypassing animal realities. Sexuality is very hard wired and also very personal/individual. A pansexual person who can be with anyone is not more enlightened than someone who has very narrow sexual criteria. They are just different species in the same ecosystem and they are both valid.
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A pansexual person is someone who uses this term to avoid admitting, coming out as, or saying that they are bisexual.

This documentary shows the truth about the trans movement.

 
Foreigner said:
Thanks. I just don't like being called a bigot when I'm not one. When someone says that to me, I actually stop and consider if it's true... and I've concluded that it's not true, after re-reading all of my own posts. I live my life very above board when it comes to treating other people with respect and decency when I'm out in the world. Yes, I'm outspoken about the politics, but when it comes to 1 on 1 interactions I am kind to people. As for my sex life, it's very private and personal. I only bring it up here because I enjoy the conversations in SLR. This forum is not a cesspool like social media is.

Trying to make somebody feel guilty or ashamed for lacking in a specific sexual appetite is immoral, delusional and perverted. It's also erasure. The lengthy recent conversation about this in SLR has really helped me to figure this out, so I am grateful. It will also help me to choose my words better down the road when this topic comes up again as it always does.
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Because you are gay/homosexual, It does not make you a bigot, transphobe, etc.

The gay men I am friends with or have met who have had sex with women, or who were once married to women said how sex with a woman just showed them how they are gay and not sexually attracted to any woman, even transwomen, transmen, and there is nothing wrong with someone being a gay man or woman, or bisexual and not having any sexual attraction to trans people.

 
It is not transphobia to not want to fuck, date, or G-d forbid partner and live with, or marry someone trans. People can refuse to sleep with or date/marry whoever they want for any number of reasons.

A lot of trannies currently are, or have sold their ass, mouth, lady dicks for the T-gurls, or vaginas for the trans 'men' for drugs, and are HIV POZ, have Hep A, B, C, and lots of other STDs.

Back when being trans was super rare as it actually is, a Trans friend made money as a she-male hooker or your typical tranny ho, in her small city where she/he was one of maybe 5-11. In most large cities they are a dime a dozen and now trans "men" are getting into the game, but trans "men" are seen by gay identified bisexual men (these actual bisexual men can claim they are gay/homosexual all they want but if they are attracted to trans 'men' and having vaginal sex with women like this they are not gay/homosexual but are bisexual, as actual gay/homosexual men do not want to have sex with anyone trans) as just another hole to fuck, get sucked by, and dump a cum load into. My bisexual ex had sex with a trans 'man' and when I asked him how it was he said, "It is no different than fucking a woman up the ass, in her pussy, licking her clit and labia, having her lick your ass, and having her suck your cock, only her tits are cut off and not for a valid medical reason such as cancer, there are nasty scars, because you are having sex with a woman." He said being sucked and rimmed by a Transwoman was exactly like being blown and rimmed by a twink or hyper-effeminate man.

Oftentimes both trans 'men' and T-gurls make no secret about how much they really hate gay men, lesbian women, hetero men and women, anyone who is not trans, and how much they hate bisexual men and women who are the only people who just might actually fuck, date, or partner/marry someone trans.
 
Foreigner said:
I'm tired of the hair-splitting over words that is currently the social trend. It's exhausting and I'm not going to cater to it much more.

You know EXACTLY what I meant when I called it a fake penis... which is that they weren't born with it. Just like I can spot breast implants on a woman when I'm at a nude beach, or fake lips full of collagen, or fake anything. Our brains are wired to spot imitations or unnatural features. Or are you going to claim that a 50 year old who has had loads of plastic surgery looks like a natural, young beauty? Nobody would ever say that. It's very obvious when somebody has had work. I personally would not be with a guy who's getting botox or other plastic surgery because I find it vain, but that's another topic. I'm trained in medical so that makes me extra observant of fine details. I have very specific tastes in men and I can't deviate from them despite years of trying. It's just not as exciting, desirous or hot to me.

I've seen plenty of videos of phalloplasty and the outcome, and I've seen a couple in person at men's massage workshops. They don't register in my brain as real penises. As soon as I look at one, before my brain even has a thought about it, something inside me feels, "Something doesn't make sense there." Then I have to think about it and then I realize what I'm looking at. They are approximations that help these individuals match their desired sex as much as possible in an attempt to ease their gender dysphoria; just like how people who have been in accidents or have deformities get reconstruction, and most of the time people can tell there is something unnatural about them but we would never make a big deal about it. Some phalloplasties have pumps attached to them so that they can get hard. I applaud anyone whose mental health is so messed up that they need to go through these transformations to feel close to normal... it can't be easy. That doesn't mean I am going to have sex with them or try to edit my own carnal attractions for them. Straight people have tried to oppress my homosexuality my entire life... it doesn't work. I won't now be dictated to again about who I "should" be into.



My carnal body does not register them as the same. I can socially pretend they are the same so that the person doesn't feel alienated, but I will be privately thinking that they're not identical. You really need to google phalloplasty and look at some pictures before you make such pronouncements.



I'm not going to have a deep, repetitive conversation with you about how phalloplasties are identical looking/feeling to real dicks because they're not. I do not carnally register them as the same. I've seen phalloplastic dicks at the nude beach (which I go to all the time in the summer) and you can spot them a while away.

I also won't cater to a theoretical scenario like comparing two otherwise identical guys because that never happens. If I was with a guy all night and things got hot and heavy, and then he pulled down his pants and he had a phalloplasty, I would lose my hard on immediately. But 9 times out of 10 that could never be a remote possibility because trans men have tell-tale female features that make me not attracted to them in the first place. The trans men I know, who I have had close contact with, smell like women despite being on T and going to the gym, etc. Some part of me is still registering "female" and I can't help it.

Pretending that a phalloplasty is identical to a natal penis is something I will only do in order to validate the feelings of a trans person who wants to match their psychological gender. They deserve that courtesy. I will not pretend they're the same when it comes to who I choose to have sex with. My sexual orientation does not function that way and nobody is entitled to make me feel guilty about that.



I don't know who that is nor do I care.

And good for you, I respect your orientation. For me it's a big nope.
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I personally would be hesitant to fuck a t-lady as I do not like fake silicone breast implants and I want to have sex with a lady with natural breasts and a natural vagina, not a physical and biological surgically altered man with a penis or a fake vagina made out of their lower intestine.

I wouldn't have sex with a trans 'man' as they are physically and biologically a woman or female, do not have an actual penis or testicles that look like, smell like, or taste, or work like an actual biological man's cock and balls, and the cosmetic removal of their/her tits with the scars when it is not for cancer is a major turn off.
 
Of course not wanting to sleep with a trans person does not make you transphobic, even if they are unrecognisable as their original sex (which is basically never) then there’s more to attraction than just visuals. Only those most entitled individuals that are most seriously infected by the mind virus think that it does.

The thing with these individuals is that they profess to be for freedom of sexual preference and for people to be allowed to express their sexuality whatever it may be (something I can entirely get behind) right up until it doesn’t include them, because that isn’t actually what they want they just want to force their personal views on everyone else.

As long as it’s not kids then people should be free to have sex with whoever they desire, be attracted to whoever they like, and exclude anybody they like from that without fear of persecution. Saying people who are not attracted to trans individuals are transphobic is the same logic as saying that gay men are misogynistic or that lesbians are misandristic (I.e it’s complete nonsense).
 
What have weed and cocks in common? I ld love to like them but alas I don t. " And I ve tried, and I ve tried..." Seriously, maybe cos I m 40 and originally from a south italian shithole so I m too sexist & ignorant to understand all the nuances of this debate but to me is a non issue: you like what you like, you cannot force yourself to be sexually aroused by someone you don t like. In my twenties I have tried to convince myself that I was bisexual, I liked the gay scene, I was super insecure so having people hitting on me was an ego boost no matter their sex, with the right amount of drugs and or booze I could kiss a guy but when things were getting serious...Boom, I realized that I was more heterosexual than I thought. Thanks but no thanks is bettter than using people you are not really attracted to in order ti boost your ego or even worse for virtue signalling. I might be old fashioned but homophobia to me means hardcore stuff like the shit my gay cousin had to face in the south italian shithole mentioned supra , transphobia means having trans people killed on a daily basis down here in Brazil etc. It might sound trivial but ffs, homophobia and transphobia are serious things that affect the lives of many people, to call someone " transphobic " because he s not attracted to trans people or homophobic because he-she happens to fancy people of the opposite sex etc is the ultimate BS. Ok. My rant is over PS I ve been with the same woman for almost nine years now so I m not in the game but I m attracted to " biological" women ( horrid term) and to m to f trans if they are super feminine . Which pseudo phobia I m supposed to have according to the current ideological trends?
 
skipjames said:
I might be old fashioned but homophobia to me means hardcore stuff like the shit my gay cousin had to face in the south italian shithole mentioned supra , transphobia means having trans people killed on a daily basis down here in Brazil etc. It might sound trivial but ffs, homophobia and transphobia are serious things that affect the lives of many people, to call someone " transphobic " because he s not attracted to trans people or homophobic because he-she happens to fancy people of the opposite sex etc is the ultimate BS. Ok. My rant is over PS I ve been with the same woman for almost nine years now so I m not in the game but I m attracted to " biological" women ( horrid term) and to m to f trans if they are super feminine . Which pseudo phobia I m supposed to have according to the current ideological trends?
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Whenever did rationality become 'old-fashioned'...

You are absolutely right; and it's a cohort of a certain type of unhinged so-called 'progressives' (who are ironically being extremely backwards) that are screeching xyz-'phobia' about every damn thing. You call a black guy a lazy arsehole because he happens to be one, that's 'racist'. You mention the fact that being 200 pounds overweight is going to lead to serious health problems, bingo you're 'fat phobic'. Say you don't like to see random strangers in fetish gear at a pride parade, you hate gays. Oh and making a clumsy pass at a woman is apparently right up there with sexual assault. All this hysteria is idiotic and it's trivialising the victims of REAL homophobia/transphobia/racism/sexism.
 
I
TheUltimateFixx said:
Whenever did rationality become 'old-fashioned'...

You are absolutely right; and it's a cohort of a certain type of unhinged so-called 'progressives' (who are ironically being extremely backwards) that are screeching xyz-'phobia' about every damn thing. You call a black guy a lazy arsehole because he happens to be one, that's 'racist'. You mention the fact that being 200 pounds overweight is going to lead to serious health problems, bingo you're 'fat phobic'. Say you don't like to see random strangers in fetish gear at a pride parade, you hate gays. Oh and making a clumsy pass at a woman is apparently right up there with sexual assault. All this hysteria is idiotic and it's trivialising the victims of REAL homophobia/transphobia/racism/sexism.
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It s like the abuse of the word " fascism" used as a generic tern.it s not only stupid but also dangerous , when words loose their meaning anything goes. For example If everything is fascism, then nothing is fascism, and now in Italy we have basically a neo fascist prime minister...
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
mention the fact that being 200 pounds overweight is going to lead to serious health problems, bingo you're 'fat phobic'. S
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My wife just mentioned the fact that doing 2 grams of cocaine per day is not good for my well being When I was doing 250 - 300 mgs of oxys per day, I was a victim of the same fascist and oppressive remarks. That s junkiephobia pure and simple, help me out :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
The world is rapidly becoming phobiaphobic. Surely, a society that has an irrational fear of irrational fears isn't going to end well?
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Indeed. I'm a very anxious person and over time I've started to avoid things simply for the fear of POTENTIALLY experiencing anxiety. It's illogical and arbitrary, it really stunts progress.

skipjames said:
My wife just mentioned the fact that doing 2 grams of cocaine per day is not good for my well being When I was doing 250 - 300 mgs of oxys per day, I was a victim of the same fascist and oppressive remarks. That s junkiephobia pure and simple, help me out :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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I've always equated the "fat acceptance" movement to drug addiction. If everyone needs to accept your body for the eating habits you have, then judging people for being addicted to meth or heroin is clearly junkiephobia.

Being overweight is due to food addiction, impulsive behaviors, and lack of discipline. It almost perfectly mirrors drug addiction.

When I made a post on reddit about this I seemed to offend A LOT of people. It's a reality people don't like to think about.

Yes, some people have slower metabolism and body types... well, some people also have different neurologies making them prone to drug abuse.

Beauty is subjective, not objective.
 
I will always defend trans rights at it's core. I believe people have a right to be whatever they want or do whatever they want with their bodies... yet you can't control what other people think or say. But damn it's getting ever more difficult to sympathize with their world view.

Ultimately, I don't believe it's logical or even possible to live in this world without experiencing negativity, contrary opinions, or demanded respect. That's just the nature of reality. Yin and yang. The world has always been a cruel place, and that's not going to change just because you want it to. That's vanity...
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Being overweight is due to food addiction, impulsive behaviors, and lack of discipline. It almost perfectly mirrors drug addiction.

When I made a post on reddit about this I seemed to offend A LOT of people. It's a reality people don't like to think about.
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There absolutely is a parallel. People who compulsively overeat to the point where they're literally eating themselves to death are using food for emotional comfort reasons, same as the type of drug use that gets problematic is generally due to using the drug as a maladaptive coping mechanism. Of course there's also just liking something that bit too much, but 9 times out of 10 real excess is due to someone having some shit they don't know how to deal with. I'm a case in point. I've done just about everything to excess that CAN be done to excess in an effort to distance myself from my troubles. Drugs, drink, food, sex, you name it.
 
Isn't being fat a really roundabout way to get a kick, compared to drugs? Same for many things. I think drug abuse is underrated.
 
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