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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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Just read Shulgin's comments on MDPH, and he says it contains "none of the magic of MDMA" and results in a non-rewarding, "stoned" feeling. This was from the Pikhal entry.

Do you think it is plausible that this substance is binding to receptors first, and blocking the action of MDMA? Would this substance show up from non-raman analysis?
 
Also, just checked ecstasydata, and not a single result shows up with MDPH in a pill or powder sold as ecstasy. I see one result with MDPHP, but that is it. And, that product was not sold as ecstasy.
 
Wow, that's interesting, so yours tested for 31% MDPH? Never heard of that being in circulation in any way.
 
Is the molar mass of this compound similar to MDMA's? Maybe it's indistinguishable if you're not looking for it.
 
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indigoaura said:
What are the implications of 31% 3,4-MDPH HCl?
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Maybe a t-BOC deprotection gone wrong...?
...or someone was trying to add a methylenedioxy bridge to Phentermine.

indigoaura said:
Do you think it is plausible that this substance is binding to receptors first, and blocking the action of MDMA?
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I wouldn't presume to write about it. I am a physical chemist - not a neuropharmacologist.
I read somewhere that MDPH interacts with 2-CB, so maybe it interacts with other drugs, too.

indigoaura said:
Would this substance show up from non-raman analysis?
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It would not show up on MS because it has the same molar mass as MDMA and mass spectrography depends on that mass.
It might show up on GC if the chromatography column is good. It would show up after derivatization for sure.
 
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Goodwalt said:
Is the molar mass of this compound similar to MDMA's? Maybe it was indistinguishable if you're not looking for it.
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It is identical, that's why Mass Spectrometry cannot distinguish it unless it is derivatized/selectively fragmented.
I have listed more of these isobaries in post #595.
 
This is a huge development, Glubrahnum. This basically proves that chemicals that are NOT MDMA are being sold as MDMA, but are indistinguishable from MDMA using typical testing methods.

Any idea what this chemical would look like in response to common reagents?
 
Is there a way we can make a shared database where we can upload the product that was tested, how it was tested, the results, and the user report (if any)? It can be hard to dig through all these pages to review all the products that have been tested thus far.
 
indigoaura said:
and from what you are saying, GC-MS is not going to cut it.
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In my opinion MS will not distinguish MDMA isobaries such as MDPH , simple GC-MS will have a difficulty distingushing them (depending on quality of the GC column) and derivatized GC-MS will not have a difficulty.
 
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indigoaura said:
This is a huge development, Glubrahnum. This basically proves that chemicals that are NOT MDMA are being sold as MDMA, but are indistinguishable from MDMA using typical testing methods.
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We do not know how often that happens. This is only one sample!

Also, I'd like to check whether any of the testing centers in Netherlands can detect a potent contaminant added to a sample of pure MDMA.
Me thinks a lethal dose of one of the synthetic opioids would be an eye opener, if the testing centers fail to detect 0.1mg of it in a 100mg pill.
 
Hi everyone, I just typed up a huge response that didn?t freaking post uhhg! So here we go again! I?ll answer your questions tonthe best of my ability. To start I live in a major port city in the Southwest with a fairly recent World Series championship, I?m sure you can guess which one lol. First off, my local supplier gave us an assortment of different colored products. Huge clear white rocks, champagne shards, brown powder, and even some that was slightly pink, and I mean ever so slightly. Smell was as expected, slight root beer, and the taste was absolutely awful, just like I remembered back in the early 2000?s. All of them with the same results, absolutely mdmazing lol. Total euphoria, closeness, dance energy, and super sexual. All the expected side effects, Jaw clenching, eye rolling, heavy deep breaths, body heat, etc. with every roll we would redose once, and the total experience would last around 6-8 hrs maybe even up to 10 at times. Now on to the dark web stuff. No euphoria at all. Very little empathy/closeness, no energy, just want to lay about, and no sexual desire at all. Still all the other effects though, jaw clenching etc. We definitely get ?high? but it?s not overly good, not bad, just not good, which I?m sure makes sense to y?all, which is why I am here lol...wtf! My wife feels the exact same except maybe even less enjoyable, she?s losing the urge to do it altogether, which is disheartening. We have ordered from Germany, Amsterdam, and Great Britain, and all the stuff we?ve been getting lately is domestic US. All with the same damn results. It?s a very sad state of affairs.
 
I?ll also add that the only thing higher doses do is prolong the effect, but we generally only get 4-6 hours out of the dark web stuff.
 
This is very interesting... I remember reading lately that a slight change during production can result in MDPH (or the "phentermine analog" as I recall them saying..) but can't for the life of me remember with what synthesis and/or precursor. I will be sure to keep an eye out and hopefully stumble upon it again..

What I remember is that it is possible to inadvertently produce this analog and that it indeed weakens the product, but not much more..

I'd also agree that this impurity may be culprit, it fits the bill better than anything else we've seen thus far.. Can't be detected by GC/MS, activity is what we'd expect, it very well could compete with MDMA for receptor sites.

-GC
 
Chonciceptor, your experience is so identical to mine it is almost scary. I am pretty sure, from your description, that we are in the same general area as well. Your descriptions are almost identical to what I would write. Did you also find that the DW stuff left you feeling cool or cold moreso than hot?

Except, I have had no luck finding the "classic" MDMA since about 2005. My partner lost interest as well, after the repeated and disappointing experiences. A very sad state of affairs indeed, as those old MDMA experiences were amazing.
 
G_Chem said:
This is very interesting... I remember reading lately that a slight change during production can result in MDPH (or the "phentermine analog" as I recall them saying..) but can't for the life of me remember with what synthesis and/or precursor. I will be sure to keep an eye out and hopefully stumble upon it again..

What I remember is that it is possible to inadvertently produce this analog and that it indeed weakens the product, but not much more..

I'd also agree that this impurity may be culprit, it fits the bill better than anything else we've seen thus far.. Can't be detected by GC/MS, activity is what we'd expect, it very well could compete with MDMA for receptor sites.

-GC
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Interesting. As I'd not heard of this substance before, I checked out the wickipedia entry:

3,4-Methylenedioxyphentermine (MDPH) is a lesser-known psychedelic drug. MDPH was first synthesized by Alexander Shulgin. In his book PiHKAL (Phenethylamines i Have Known And Loved), the dosage range is listed as 160–240 mg, and the duration as 3–5 hours.[1] MDPH's effects are very similar to those of MDA: they both are smooth and "stoning," and do not cause any visuals. They also alter dreams and dream patterns. Shulgin describes MDPH as a promoter; it promotes the effects of other drugs, similarly to 2C-D. Very little data exists about the pharmacological properties, metabolism, and toxicity of MDPH.

I've got some crystal atm that matches this description exactly.
 
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