Recovery Replacing a very toxic/neurotoxic addiction with something less harmful.

[RecoveringDude]

So I would consider myself a border line Dextromethorphan addict, I've used for the last 3 years, college is coming up and the side effects have been clearly visible, memory loss, development of a constant essential hand tremor, feeling emotionless (I was diagonosed with ASD as a kid but current pysch says I don't have it.) intelligence loss, common side effects of heavy DXM use, etc..

So with access to "safer," or rather less neurotoxic drugs, is it wise to become addicted or dependent on something else, I need benzos for hand tremors and body shakes any case, but I don't want to end up as a daily 4mg Xanax addict, I've tried herbs with little results as well as working out. When I do cardio my hand tremors worsen for about 30 mins and my body shakes.

I think I'm physically dependent on DXM, when I use my tremors lessen and the next few days they're not as severe but return gradually and worsen..It's fucking bullshit. Doctors in VA won't prescribe benzos to people my age without a very very very severe/good reason. I'm on gapapentin and ambien for sleep and thinking of taking it throughout the day instead ontop of my vyvanse to lessen the shakes. I'm thinking about trying to obtain suboxone as I've heard wonder stories about it for quitting DXM, and in VA it seems rather easy to obtain Suboxone as long as you have opiates in your urine/blood test and present physical symptons.

Fuck, I'm physically terryifying to look at, i stare in the mirror and just fucking want this curse to end today, this isn't some fucking sob story, I was picked on in my last year of highschool for it and nearly flunked all my classes and began self-medicating heavily. I don't want this to happen in college.

 

[simco]

I'm not 100% clear what you're asking. That is, what are you considering in place of DXM?

 

[RecoveringDude]

I'm not 100% clear what you're asking. That is, what are you considering in place of DXM?

Tramadol and muscle relaxers.
Possibly barbiturates weekly.

 

[RecoveringDude]

cross-addiction

I'm not 100% clear what you're asking. That is, what are you considering in place of DXM?

To clarify, I want to stop using DXM as recreational use and "self-medicating" use. I've stopped before but I always go back, and finally decided my only hope is switching to another substance(s) and term up cross-addicted to another substance. I'm asking for advice on what to avoid (etc benzos) and is it wise to try obtaining Suboxone as a treatment along with muscle relaxors for tremors and quitting DXM side-effects.EDIT: I used poppy seed tea and phenzapam to try countering DXM, but the phenezpam ended up in me crashing a car months ago. Opiates work wonders to escape reality, but not my cup of tea for daily use. I also used phenobarbital which helped with the hand tremors a great deal but unluckily it is a barbituate. On the other hand the pills containing it only contain a very small amount of it with a large amount of valerian root.I just need advice on what's dangerous with barbituate use, and poppy seed tea use, etc, and anything anyone might think may be relevant for advice.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Is this simply a matter of getting you through withdrawals?

In alcohol withdrawal, the tremors are thought to be due to NMDA (glutamate) receptor upregulation which does dissipate with time, however GABAergic drugs such as benzos can relieve those symptoms in the short term. There is some research showing that a class of drugs called anti-epileptics/mood stabilizers (oxcarbazepine, depakote et cetera) can help with benzo/alcohol withdrawal and excessive glutamate related activity, not to mention they can help regular mood disorders like bipolar/depression. Its possible that is applicable here.

I wouldn't start taking ambien in the day. Tolerance will be gained quickly. Gabapentin/Lyrica are often used throughout the day for various reasons however, and can help quell excess excitability as well. Barbiturates will be very difficult to get prescribed but are not what you want long term anyways. Tolerance/addiction et cetera

But there may simply be a "tough it out" period if you want to do it full sober (although I would taper very slowly if you choose to do so). Others may want to try something like switching to a very long acting benzo and then tapering with that.

One issue with withdrawing from DXM is that its a very complex drug - if it was just an NMDA antagonist, then withdrawals would probably be different. But its also a bit of an antidepressant, so there could be withdrawal symptoms resulting from multiple receptor systems (particularly the SNRI portion of DXM and metabolites) that may not be completely covered with benzos.

Cymbalta and Amitriptyline are two drugs that may help relieve some of the SNRI withdrawal related symptoms, if those are present. One thing to be cautious of is that they may lower the seizure threshold, and seizures are definitely something to change up your game plan about if you encounter them.

Depakote and Amitriptyline could be fairly cheap meds.

PS: I am not a doctor, seek professional medical help

 

[cj]

The shaking is really worrisome. I think you need to see a neurologist and get that figured out because it could be a bad sign of Nuerological damage. What kind of Dxm dose are you taking everyday?

 

[RecoveringDude]

The shaking is really worrisome. I think you need to see a neurologist and get that figured out because it could be a bad sign of Nuerological damage. What kind of Dxm dose are you taking everyday?

Isn't daily, but there's a been a few weeks this year I've used daily then take a break for two weeks or a month. Seen a neurologist, was prescribed gabapentin 300mg for it at night, thinking about asking for a benzo but I'm on VA's prescription drug monitoring program and have a drug user label in my record, they said it isn't Serotonin syndrome but I've used 100mg luvox multiple times on DXM.Doses are usually 360mg - 560mg. Felt like I burnt out all the serotonin/NDMA whatever reserves as the highs are just more dissociative and less euphoric/feel good. I gotta call my neurologist for my blood work, will post results soon.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

So I would consider myself a border line Dextromethorphan addict, I've used for the last 3 years, college is coming up and the side effects have been clearly visible, memory loss, development of a constant essential hand tremor, feeling emotionless (I was diagonosed with ASD as a kid but current pysch says I don't have it.) intelligence loss, common side effects of heavy DXM use, etc..

So with access to "safer," or rather less neurotoxic drugs, is it wise to become addicted or dependent on something else, I need benzos for hand tremors and body shakes any case, but I don't want to end up as a daily 4mg Xanax addict, I've tried herbs with little results as well as working out. When I do cardio my hand tremors worsen for about 30 mins and my body shakes.

I think I'm physically dependent on DXM, when I use my tremors lessen and the next few days they're not as severe but return gradually and worsen..It's fucking bullshit. Doctors in VA won't prescribe benzos to people my age without a very very very severe/good reason. I'm on gapapentin and ambien for sleep and thinking of taking it throughout the day instead ontop of my vyvanse to lessen the shakes. I'm thinking about trying to obtain suboxone as I've heard wonder stories about it for quitting DXM, and in VA it seems rather easy to obtain Suboxone as long as you have opiates in your urine/blood test and present physical symptons.

Fuck, I'm physically terryifying to look at, i stare in the mirror and just fucking want this curse to end today, this isn't some fucking sob story, I was picked on in my last year of highschool for it and nearly flunked all my classes and began self-medicating heavily. I don't want this to happen in college.

I've had benzodiazepines prescribed in VA at your age. So I don't really believe you; it's probably that they determined you didn't have a good enough reason to receive them, or that the doctor in question is stingy compared to others.

Are you taking vyvanse? That could explain some of your symptoms.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

^yeah I didn't see the amphetamines bit. I'd imagine that more stimulation is the last thing you need.

 

[RecoveringDude]

Is this simply a matter of getting you through withdrawals?In alcohol withdrawal, the tremors are thought to be due to NMDA (glutamate) receptor upregulation which does dissipate with time, however GABAergic drugs such as benzos can relieve those symptoms in the short term. There is some research showing that a class of drugs called anti-epileptics/mood stabilizers (oxcarbazepine, depakote et cetera) can help with benzo/alcohol withdrawal and excessive glutamate related activity, not to mention they can help regular mood disorders like bipolar/depression. Its possible that is applicable here.I wouldn't start taking ambien in the day. Tolerance will be gained quickly. Gabapentin/Lyrica are often used throughout the day for various reasons however, and can help quell excess excitability as well. Barbiturates will be very difficult to get prescribed but are not what you want long term anyways. Tolerance/addiction et ceteraBut there may simply be a "tough it out" period if you want to do it full sober (although I would taper very slowly if you choose to do so). Others may want to try something like switching to a very long acting benzo and then tapering with that.One issue with withdrawing from DXM is that its a very complex drug - if it was just an NMDA antagonist, then withdrawals would probably be different. But its also a bit of an antidepressant, so there could be withdrawal symptoms resulting from multiple receptor systems (particularly the SNRI portion of DXM and metabolites) that may not be completely covered with benzos. Cymbalta and Amitriptyline are two drugs that may help relieve some of the SNRI withdrawal related symptoms, if those are present. One thing to be cautious of is that they may lower the seizure threshold, and seizures are definitely something to change up your game plan about if you encounter them.Depakote and Amitriptyline could be fairly cheap meds. PS: I am not a doctor, seek professional medical help

I cannot do a full sober period with the stresses I deal with, I won't go into detail but I'd rather hang myself then be dry. I was thinking tramadol could be used for SNRI withdrawal, opiods/opiates do relax me but I had a spasm and difficulty breathing on 40mg of pure morphine twice. Barbiturates seem better for me as I eat benzos like candy and get reckless on them, I'm thinking of low doses of phenobarbital (15mg) with propanolol, despite the dangers I think it's better. [/QUOTE]I've had benzodiazepines prescribed in VA at your age. So I don't really believe you; it's probably that they determined you didn't have a good enough reason to receive them, or that the doctor in question is stingy compared to others. Are you taking vyvanse? That could explain some of your symptoms.[/QUOTE]Yeah, 40mg vyvanse a day. Used to be cracked out by a pysch on 100mg for two years without knowing it. Fucking hate vyvanse for the anxiety it brings.

 

[RecoveringDude]

Is this simply a matter of getting you through withdrawals?In alcohol withdrawal, the tremors are thought to be due to NMDA (glutamate) receptor upregulation which does dissipate with time, however GABAergic drugs such as benzos can relieve those symptoms in the short term. There is some research showing that a class of drugs called anti-epileptics/mood stabilizers (oxcarbazepine, depakote et cetera) can help with benzo/alcohol withdrawal and excessive glutamate related activity, not to mention they can help regular mood disorders like bipolar/depression. Its possible that is applicable here.I wouldn't start taking ambien in the day. Tolerance will be gained quickly. Gabapentin/Lyrica are often used throughout the day for various reasons however, and can help quell excess excitability as well. Barbiturates will be very difficult to get prescribed but are not what you want long term anyways. Tolerance/addiction et ceteraBut there may simply be a "tough it out" period if you want to do it full sober (although I would taper very slowly if you choose to do so). Others may want to try something like switching to a very long acting benzo and then tapering with that.One issue with withdrawing from DXM is that its a very complex drug - if it was just an NMDA antagonist, then withdrawals would probably be different. But its also a bit of an antidepressant, so there could be withdrawal symptoms resulting from multiple receptor systems (particularly the SNRI portion of DXM and metabolites) that may not be completely covered with benzos. Cymbalta and Amitriptyline are two drugs that may help relieve some of the SNRI withdrawal related symptoms, if those are present. One thing to be cautious of is that they may lower the seizure threshold, and seizures are definitely something to change up your game plan about if you encounter them.Depakote and Amitriptyline could be fairly cheap meds. PS: I am not a doctor, seek professional medical help

I cannot do a full sober period with the stresses I deal with, I won't go into detail but I'd rather hang myself then be dry. I was thinking tramadol could be used for SNRI withdrawal, opiods/opiates do relax me but I had a spasm and difficulty breathing on 40mg of pure morphine twice. Barbiturates seem better for me as I eat benzos like candy and get reckless on them, I'm thinking of low doses of phenobarbital (15mg) with propanolol, despite the dangers I think it's better. @ Captain HI've had benzodiazepines prescribed in VA at your age. So I don't really believe you; it's probably that they determined you didn't have a good enough reason to receive them, or that the doctor in question is stingy compared to others. Are you taking vyvanse? That could explain some of your symptoms.Yeah, 40mg vyvanse a day. Used to be cracked out by a pysch on 100mg for two years without knowing it. Fucking hate vyvanse for the anxiety it brings.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Fucking hate vyvanse for the anxiety it brings.

Why don't you stop taking it?

 

[RecoveringDude]

Why don't you stop taking it?

School mostly, finding a pysch/doc who would put me back on ADHD meds. I'm thinking about taking modafinil daily and just not taking the vyvanse

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

Hey RecoveringDude, thanks for posting. It sounds like many of the symptoms you experience are resulting from current or previous drug use. It's typically not a great idea to rely on more/different drugs to change or mitigate how you feel. What is your end goal or objective here?

 

[Jabberwocky]

RecoveringDude, unfortunately you're not really going to find another drug like DXM that doesn't have similarly dangerous side effects. And I know how precious a positive DXM experience and mind space it facilitates can be. The good news is that there isn't really a withdrawal syndrome (at least not comparable to alcohol or opioids) for DXM, so your withdrawal will be largely psychological (not that that is all that much easier, but it's a bit more manageable than also having a bunch of physiological symptoms to also deal with).

Two questions, have you ever tried any other possible entheogens (LSD, mushrooms, mescaline/cactus, etc that are not primarily NMDA receptor antagonists)? Are you able to use cannabis?

I found mescaline very helpful in helping to prepare me for cessation from the use of DXM/NMDA receptor antagonists. And cannabis was very useful keeping myself not craving two much, and the cravings got much, much better after two weeks of just cannabis (granted I smoked a lot for my low tolerance, about 1/4 a week - okay, but primarily smoking out of an apple which isn't the most efficient, but I digress...).

The very interesting thing is that I have since tried to use DXM since then, after two weeks of abstinence, and the experience was very unpleasant. The magic was essentially gone, a magic that had hung around for during my a year of sustained weekly to daily use. All that was present was the dissociation, which alone isn't super pleasant it turns out, and the unpleasant side effect (for me it's basically fucked up my GI tract, or rather made a previous condition worse).

I have no desire to use it since then - I appreciated what I got out of it, but I feel like I overplayed that hand. I'm still rather interested in other NMDA receptor antagonists, but it's easier for me to consider the effect their use has on my health, and the importance of my health, when I consider whether I want to use or not (in other words, I'm not really interested in ever using another NMDA receptor antagonist like I used DXM).

I have a feeling a lot of good things will happens when you get a few weeks away from daily DXM use. If you can't just stop, even taking smaller (albeit less pleasurable) doses are a good idea (by the end my tolerance was about 800-1000mg/dose). But the real difference comes once some of the symptoms subside, and those side effects aren't going anywhere until you find a way to stop taking the DXM.

Hence my suggestion for trying cannabis and entheogens. Also, please avoid combining tramadol (or SNRI/SSRIs for that matter) and DXM. It's not a guarantee, but I feel there is a risk of seizure, serotonin syndrome, or other unpleasant/dangerous side effects. I mean, tramadol and/or an antidepressant would be way better than DXM, I'm just suggesting you try avoid combing higher doses of those kinds of drugs.

 

[RecoveringDude]

My end goal here @ Grinders is to get the fuck off all these drugs and medicines I take, but that's in 8+ years, for now, it's finding a drug that I can use (more accurately abuse) for anxiety and paranoia.izI'm not sure if the DXM caused the paranoia or I'm schizophrenic

 

[RecoveringDude]

@toothpastedogI've done true LSD once, half a blotter, unknown dosage. Very intense euphoria but no visuals, no taste under the tongue. Pyschadelics are a double edged sword for me, I'm on medicines which really amplify the negative effects of pyschs and even cannabis.My tolerance for cannabis is SUPER low, I get very high from pot easily it's funny to other people, I smoked half a blunt and could barely drive, albeit I think smoking in a cigarette may be a solution.Currently, opiates are working WONDERS WONDERS WONDERS aaaahhhh for anxiety. I have kratom on the way to steer clear before I become addicted to morphine and PST.

EDIT: Toothpastedog, I think you would understand humans have an understanding of other people that other people don't, spirituality etc. I feel very spiritual all the time and want to suppress that feeling.

Also how are tricyclic anti-depressants for anxiety compared to benzos?

 

[Jabberwocky]

One of the things I learned to appreciate with chronic DXM use was how it lowered my tolerance to pretty much all drugs to like pre-use levels. Now, that did lead to some very unpleasant (and truly unfortunate) experiences, but it has its upsides too. Like, super sensitized me, in lots of ways.

Those psych meds can be hit or miss for anxiety. Often they either work "so well" they leave one rather unable to feel the normal range of emotions or they have undesirable side effects (too much sedation, dry mouth, constipation, etc). But if you want to try something you haven't before, it's worth looking into with a doctor. Some of them can be quite dangerous when misused (and they are sometimes misused, although mostly among folks in prison or likewise shite conditions), so be aware of possible risk with that if you have ever had struggles with suicidal ideation of whatnot.

My main question to you right now would be, if you find opioid use so desirable (and trust me, I TOTALLY get that - I too love opioids), why not use buprenorphine or methadone to stabilize? Have you ever attempted any kind of substance use disorder treatment(s) before? Silly way to put it, but it's what they call it I guess. IME it's FAAAR and away easier to work out one's shit stabilized on the appropriate medication (psych and ORT meds included) than attempting to do so without pharmacological support of some meaningful kind (this of course doesn't go for everyone, but I think you'd be a good candidate).

EDIT: Toothpastedog, I think you would understand humans have an understanding of other people that other people don't, spirituality etc. I feel very spiritual all the time and want to suppress that feeling.

This is very interesting to me, although I'm not really sure what you're saying.

What do you mean when you say you want to suppress that feeling? Can you describe the feeling? Why would you want to suppress as opposed to nurture it?

I guess part of what I'm asking is, what does spirituality mean to you? How to you experience it in your life? How did it make you feel when you experienced it, and how does it make you feel reflecting upon it now?

I know how hard this kind of thing can be to express in words; know I'm not going to criticize you how your experience of this affects you.