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Addiction Is Not a Disease and Rehab Is Bullshit

Regarding the semantics in terms of labeling addiction/dependence a disease, I agree, strictly speaking, it does fit the criteria for the definition of "disease".

My problem is that, like TPD elaborated so succinctly a couple posts down, labeling it as such seems to be harmful to the sufferer in a number of different ways. Also, substance abuse/addiction/dependence has so many factors that don't exist in classic pathological diseases that have to be taken into account and which complicate matters quite a bit.

A quick example - i had a friend who developed a problem with alcoholism. He couldn't function without having a stiff drink before engaging in any activity, for instance, going to work. Eventually he decided he needed help and enrolled himself in AA. Of course, weeks later, having been able to abstain completely from his DOC, he explained to me his belief that God had saved him and he was powerless without the intervention of the almighty. He promptly relapsed a week or so after that and has been in his downward spiral since. I strongly believe that the AA doctrine that says you have a disease and that you'll always have it no matter what, and the doctrine which requires you to submit to a higher power for recovery, both contributed to my friend losing confidence in himself. I saw it as a self fulfilling prophecy - believe you are powerless and you will become powerless. He couldn't even fathom that the few weeks he had been sober were completely his own doing.

Also, many people think "well, if I have a disease, then I can't overcome it by sheer willpower or any other personal agency I possess - so I'll just maintain the status quo".

The disease model of addiction isn't necessarily WRONG, but it is counterproductive.
 
I love this article. It's funny some of the comments in this thread are calling HIS opinion esentially an "addict mentality" and what's funny is I see it as the complete opposite. Here is a guy that owned up to what really haunts him and doesn't feel sorry for himself by call it a disease. Whether it is a disease or not I honestly don't know if we will ever have a definitive answer, but I don't get how anyoone can completely disregard his theory.
Someone even went as far to say that a gaming addiction can not be as bad as a substance abuse disorder. Um, I have a cousin in Russia who steals to support his gaming addiction, and literally had to be ripped off the gaming controller to be taken to jail. He went to a Gaming Rehab and said his story was light/moderate when compared to other people's stories.
 
Phil.McKeer said:
Regarding the semantics in terms of labeling addiction/dependence a disease, I agree, strictly speaking, it does fit the criteria for the definition of "disease".

My problem is that, like TPD elaborated so succinctly a couple posts down, labeling it as such seems to be harmful to the sufferer in a number of different ways. Also, substance abuse/addiction/dependence has so many factors that don't exist in classic pathological diseases that have to be taken into account and which complicate matters quite a bit.

A quick example - i had a friend who developed a problem with alcoholism. He couldn't function without having a stiff drink before engaging in any activity, for instance, going to work. Eventually he decided he needed help and enrolled himself in AA. Of course, weeks later, having been able to abstain completely from his DOC, he explained to me his belief that God had saved him and he was powerless without the intervention of the almighty. He promptly relapsed a week or so after that and has been in his downward spiral since. I strongly believe that the AA doctrine that says you have a disease and that you'll always have it no matter what, and the doctrine which requires you to submit to a higher power for recovery, both contributed to my friend losing confidence in himself. I saw it as a self fulfilling prophecy - believe you are powerless and you will become powerless. He couldn't even fathom that the few weeks he had been sober were completely his own doing.

Also, many people think "well, if I have a disease, then I can't overcome it by sheer willpower or any other personal agency I possess - so I'll just maintain the status quo".

The disease model of addiction isn't necessarily WRONG, but it is counterproductive.
Click to expand...

I agree that AA makes relapses much worse because the person has been indoctrinated to have no control over his addiction and by and in a sense his life.

I also don't think a support group which is what AA is should be a replacement for medical treatment. If we are going to call it a disease then naturally it should be treated by the medical establishment. But from my personal experience doctors don't want shit to do with treating addiction. There is a hole in the treatment philosophy IMO
 
Ne0

dis·ease

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

Pretty sure that fits the bill. Like I said, its not just a disease. I'm not going to argue semantics.
 
I don't think it's nearly all that cut and drug. According to that definition, the opioid or alcohol withdrawal syndrome would qualify as a form of disease.

I certainly am not comfortable referring to withdrawal syndrome and addiction in the same way. The overarching dynamics involved with withdrawal syndrome result almost entirely from biologically rooted process which end once the body has (re)acclimatized to a new set point. Those involved with addiction are the product of far more conditions than biological alone.

I do agree though that there is only so much to be gained from arguing whether or not the term disease applies to addiction or if so how and how now. As I think has been mentioned, probably the most literal reason most of us tend to understand it has more to do with accounting and the insurance industry than some advancement in medical understanding.
 
Capricious and disingenuous title.
Will write more. But ask yourself this. When did someone from N.A ever knock at your door? Ever seen an N.A fundraiser?

Rehab saved my life. But, unlike the American system, I had to 'earn' my place in a 6 week inpatient NHS facility with 3 months of co-operation with the drug outreach team. I had to turn up 2/3 times a week, spend an hour with a frankly annoying middle aged hack.


Yes we had tennis courts. But we also had 7am to 4pm therapy with 8-10pm AA/N.A meetings every night. And people died during the time I was there. Other people actually turned their life around.

It saved my life, or at least prolonged it. I am willing to answer any questions regarding rehab and the 12 steps.

To say they don't work is in a most prosaic why like saying chemo, diet and exercise, doesn't cure cancer.

It works for some. There are things you should do and EXPECT TO DO for it to work for YOU. It's not the same as having your tonsils removed.

Source, 20+ years active addiction in all opiates, crack and meth. Many dead associates and many successful associates.
 
A disease is a particular abnormal condition, a disorder of a structure or function, that affects part or all of an organism. The study of disease is called pathology which includes the study of cause. Disease is often construed as a medical condition associated with specific symptoms and signs.[1] It may be caused by external factors such as pathogens, or it may be caused by internal dysfunctions particularly of the immune system such as an immunodeficiency, or a hypersensitivity including allergies and autoimmunity.

In humans, disease is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories. Diseases can affect people not only physically, but also emotionally, as contracting and living with a disease can alter the affected person's perspective on life.

Source: wikipedia.

Basically why say its not a disease? I think what your getting at here is when people use the word disease as some sort of crutch or like learned helplessness?





"
#82​

Phil.McKeer "



A quick example - i had a friend who developed a problem with alcoholism. He couldn't function without having a stiff drink before engaging in any activity, for instance, going to work. Eventually he decided he needed help and enrolled himself in AA. Of course, weeks later, having been able to abstain completely from his DOC, he explained to me his belief that God had saved him and he was powerless without the intervention of the almighty. He promptly relapsed a week or so after that and has been in his downward spiral since. I strongly believe that the AA doctrine that says you have a disease and that you'll always have it no matter what, and the doctrine which requires you to submit to a higher power for recovery, both contributed to my friend losing confidence in himself. I saw it as a self fulfilling prophecy - believe you are powerless and you will become powerless. He couldn't even fathom that the few weeks he had been sober were completely his own doing.

I really agree with this
#82​



 
FUCKING VICE Magazine click bait.

OP seriously needs to reacess there position as moderator of a sober living forum if they think this is worthy source material
 
It does fit the definition of a disease but I think that theory is mostly used as a crutch by a lot of people who tout it as justification for drug use.

If you truly want to stop using drugs, you will. It really is that simple IMO. There is a lot of help out there for addicts now, you can't even say that help isn't available anymore
 
Sharapovafistpump said:
FUCKING VICE Magazine click bait.

OP seriously needs to reacess there position as moderator of a sober living forum if they think this is worthy source material
Click to expand...

The article may be click bait but it's produced a good discussion. Maybe you should participate instead of being an asshole. Just a thought.
 
I would confidently, and dispassionately, argue that addiction realizes all of the above Wikipedia classification.

However we are dealing with a critical killer mental illness here. and perception is crucial to how it is percevied and treated.

A paranoid schizophrenic stabs somebody. A drug addict stabs somebody. How do you react to those 2 statements?

If your told that the 'drug addict' had experienced severe trauma and brain damage exacerbated by protracted self medication of impure street drugs.

Do you place them on a par now?

95% of people who use drugs do not ever have to enter rehab.

Those that do tend to have had some serious PTSD or ADHD or other mental disability.

People who dismiss the best/only options we have of treating people in a non-judgemental mental way really annoy me.
 
Two dimensional idiots get wound up over the 'powerless' concept of the 12 steps.

'Oh me, powerless, no fucking way man, I'm in control of everything'

- take a fucking jog you ballbag.

People are powerless. Bill Wilson wanted to introduce LSD to the 12 step program because it manifests ego death, a realization that you really are not in control.

And as much as I believe I am in control of what I'm typing write now, I'm not really, the notions and puntuation are as much a consequence of environment and chemistry as any self determination.

Now extrapolate this to the addict in the depths of addiction- unless you have been there you don't fucking know - the will is purely about getting fucked up. One way or another.

So - 1st step - I can't control my need to get fucked up.

It's basic honesty.
 
Just to throw a reality spanner in the works, I say this now with a drop of drink in me. I've no need with anyone here ffs, just I've loved this life and continue to live it and do not like to see it miss represented.

I was at an N.A meeting tonight and had a great chat with a girl who relapsed the other night, but has been in N.A for 4 years. I've been going for the past 2.5yrs and I've had a drink tonight.

But going to a free, anonymous, organization, where you inevitably make friends but turning up sober is kind of a pre-requisite has saved me hundreds of dozens of intoxicated states.

That's reality.

I'm not so involved that I think I'm letting people down by not turning up with a clean set of clothes and a fresh anecdote. But I enjoy it. It ok. It's cool to give a 65yr old junker a lift home and listen to his prison stories.

Don't shit on what you don't know.

Rehab works. 12 steps works if you work it so work it your worth it.
 
^ I mean I kinda feeling what you saying about not really in control. Its like if someone is raised in a complete shit environment and around gangs, they probably going to be into gang bullshit and end up in jail, and its like did they ever really have a chance? I believe that all of society needs to take responsibility for all of the negativity and bullshit. Its like how we love to blame terrorists, but forget that in many cases we are dealing with people who have seen families annihilated by bombs we dropped. Yet we focus on the terrorist only. Its really about taking the whole picture into perspective and acknowledging that we all play a part. Another good example is children shooting up schools. These people were clearly not protected and were dealing with some heavy duty insane shit that got missed because of society as a whole. We need to take responsibility for people losing their fucking shit. Its a very deep sort of understanding of the nature of life as pattern, and we just are not there yet. Perhaps one day we will be a sort of enlightened race, but not now.
 
I do agree addiction IS NOT a disease , cancer, hepatitis is. Rehab, eh if it helps it helps, some that is.
 
Aye I agree with you d3, but to a point. But, Imo (which is just that) if you're of a mind set where you can extrapolate your your condition to the global macro - then you've no excuse for fixation on your individual circumstance.

What I'm discussing and what I imagine this thread to be about - (thus my utter contempt for the title) is the micro.

When a person has mental, and all to often physical, walls containing their psysice.

Theorizing form an external position, I'm loath to say is a luxury but it's certainly a position not afforded to those in the grip of chronic pathological addiction.

And yes I am not keen to jump on the term disease. Maybe I'm daft (never studied medicene) but to me the term 'disease' implys somthing that is contagious, endemic, an external virus type affliction.

I think illness is more appropriate.
Septisimia is an illness, again likely wrong, but that is an illness that kills more than any disease.

Semantics are incredibly difficult to define within the field of mental health - as the DSM continues to grow exponentially on the basis of symptoms but only a fucking retard would blithely disregard addiction as a chronic condition that's destroys the the life of the of the sufferer and those around them. And to dismiss rehab - unless you have experienced 6 weeks 24/7 drug and alcohol rehab - your talking shite. Unless of course you are doing it for any reason bad yourself.

No amount of rehab can help someone who doesn't want to be there.
 
Thanks Phil, I wouldnt say its 'worked' for me. N.A or A.A 'working' is, in my experience a non-sequitur. It works when i work it, and when I get on with the people involved.

This is a major factor that people don't seem to appreciate. 12 step programs are solely the experience of those involved. People inevitably like to judge it as a single organization - but nothing could be further from the truth. I live in Northern Ireland and I can tell you the 20 odd regulars at one group are very different from the 20, 15 miles down the road.

Crusty washed up folks lol, well we have a barrister, a cruise liner captain a doctor and a person very high up in the penal system among many others. Maybe it's the folk who don't bother to address the issue who might be washed up.

But as a post grad I'm definitely one of the least upwardly mobile who attend.

Who conducts these surveys? What's the mean and standard deviation? I have never heard of a survey.

There is no dues or fees, no pledges to sign the only thing required is a desire to stop using.

Fuck your throwing a 5% figure at me and I'm close with people over 2 years and I don't even know their second name.

How the fuck you think your going to get accurate statistics on that shit when the whole system is designed to avoid exactly that?

Besides, man I'm one of those 95% - as is always said - there's always a seat, of course people breeze through on a whim, some take it real serious, others part-time.

It's a bunch of people who took a fuck load of drugs and realized that, perhaps, life is a little better not fucked up.

You want to hang with people getting fucked 24/7 I don't judge. I did that.
 
Oh and unqualified - but experienced, id say the medical and the social aspects are inseparable. Shit what's therapy? (Apart from a thrash metal band my mates in)
 
Sharapovafistpump said:
Thanks Phil, I wouldnt say its 'worked' for me. N.A or A.A 'working' is, in my experience a non-sequitur. It works when i work it, and when I get on with the people involved.

This is a major factor that people don't seem to appreciate. 12 step programs are solely the experience of those involved. People inevitably like to judge it as a single organization - but nothing could be further from the truth. I live in Northern Ireland and I can tell you the 20 odd regulars at one group are very different from the 20, 15 miles down the road.

Crusty washed up folks lol, well we have a barrister, a cruise liner captain a doctor and a person very high up in the penal system among many others. Maybe it's the folk who don't bother to address the issue who might be washed up.

But as a post grad I'm definitely one of the least upwardly mobile who attend.

Who conducts these surveys? What's the mean and standard deviation? I have never heard of a survey.

There is no dues or fees, no pledges to sign the only thing required is a desire to stop using.

Fuck your throwing a 5% figure at me and I'm close with people over 2 years and I don't even know their second name.

How the fuck you think your going to get accurate statistics on that shit when the whole system is designed to avoid exactly that?

Besides, man I'm one of those 95% - as is always said - there's always a seat, of course people breeze through on a whim, some take it real serious, others part-time.

It's a bunch of people who took a fuck load of drugs and realized that, perhaps, life is a little better not fucked up.

You want to hang with people getting fucked 24/7 I don't judge. I did that.
Click to expand...

I don't really like getting really fucked up but moderate high, my drug use is in cycles, I might go 1-6 months without taking any drugs (beside cafffeine and nicotine). But i don't consider myself to be and "addict", I have strong porn addiction so I know what is addiction and what is not. I was dependable on opium for 3 years, but I don't have any "cravings" like I have for porn when I quit it. I still use it time to time because I really enjoy it, using it years every day it doesn't feel so great anymore, so better to have some use for 1-4 days and then stop, never have I had problems stop using when I take every now and then. With porn when I start I can't stop, I will binge on porn for 5 hours every day for weeks then I get overload of it and have break but then after week I get strong cravings for porn and I start again, I think I watch only one video but it always has ended for many hour binge. Now thats an addiction.
 
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