Recovery 16 years oxy user working up plan to get off for good please help have questions

[Broken74]

Odd conotation..... re resting my post I realized I said "but p0ke" and it sounds funny when put like that!

Hope I made everyone smile. Lol

 

[P0kemama]

The cold weather has to make it tougher, but p0ke...you got this!!

Happy hump day everyone

Is alcohol bad during recovery? John never had a drinking problem, at most he drank once every few months, never to excess. We did karaoke last night, we as in...john sings I cheer...anyhow he realy over indulged and it started to scare me, thinking about his recovery. It seemed he was drinking to accomplish something in his head, which is scary. What are your thoughts?

My own personal experience with alcohol are going cold turkey off of opioids was scary. I started with one glass of wine to help me sleep, and ended up compulsively drinking large quantities every night. One of the reasons, after thinking and weighing the pros and cons for months that I chose to return to pain management was that I wanted alcohol out of my life. I did quit drinking soon after restarting my medication... I got extremely sick to my stomach. I never drank again, and one of the reasons I am checking out meetings this time around is that I do not want to return to alcohol once I am off the medication.

Broken: I care about you, even though we just met online: please check out an alanon meeting at your earliest convenience. He is going to have his own journey, and you will be so much better off if you have the tools offered through the al-anon type programs to deal with what he, and you, and both of your family members are going through.
Addiction is a family disease... all members are affected. You will be better served to focus on you... how are you feeling, what are your goals for the future... he needs to do his own work. I am speaking as both an alcoholic/addict and as a person who attended al- anon for years after a short and disastrous relationship with an addict when I was clean and sober. You will learn how to respond to what he does and say; you will learn self care... and most of all, you learn what is within your control and what is not. I love that program and it was a gift in my life. The people there can share their experiences of what it was like with their relationships with addicts and alcohol so much better and in more detail than what we share online.

 

[simco]

...
Is alcohol bad during recovery? John never had a drinking problem, at most he drank once every few months, never to excess. We did karaoke last night, we as in...john sings I cheer...anyhow he realy over indulged and it started to scare me, thinking about his recovery. It seemed he was drinking to accomplish something in his head, which is scary. What are your thoughts?

While I don't believe that abstinence-only approaches to recovery are right for everyone, it has been my experience that booze and opiate recovery are a nasty mix. Of the former opiate addicts I know, many of them subsequently developed a problem with alcohol. As I understand it (which, admittedly, is only partially), alcohol operates on many of the parts of the brain that opiates hammer, so drinking can both hinder the brain's efforts to find equilibrium after ceasing opiates and can provide a nice (in the sense of fulfilling, not helpful) substitute for dope.

Keep us posted.

 

[P0kemama]

Hi LD and CD: Well, I guess I will join the proud parent club. Thank God I have two sons who both are engineers... one electrical engineer, the other a chemical engineer... so they are scary smart. Of course they are tech savvy... so I called the chem e son and he explained about the "bot" problem which is what is causing problems here, according to some of the posts on the support forum. My password was actually stolen and was not accessible, hence I could not change it, even after several tries... there was virtually nothing to change. He told me to wait... he said that once it is fixed then there is a lag time for changes to be take effect. He was right. I waited and now this morning all is well again, tech-wise.

I am tapering throughout December, so let's leave it at that. I will share as I go along. Basically, I am out of clonidine and cannot get anymore until next year. I do not want to go into private details on this public forum... my son cautioned me about "too much info" getting into wrong hands. Suffice it to say.... health insurance issues, etc that will be resolved in January 2017. Gabapentin was making me sick and lost effectiveness. Therefore, I am tapering but will not be jumping off anytime soon, for sure. I did call my pain doc and moved my appointment out to 2017. That means I am taking a bare minimum of medication each day since what was supposed to last 28 days now has to last around 47 days.
I still have periods of time each day I spend in mild withdrawals, and shorter times in more than mild withdrawals. I want to get through the holidays with the least amount of distress and the least amount of medication. It is a "one day at a time" experience for me right now.

It is now 8 degrees here... not counting the wind chill, which has pushed temps below zero. it is snowing out and is soo pretty... I do not have to go out until this evening... to the PA meeting, if it is not canceled due to weather, which I doubt it will be.

LD: I guess we have to vicariously enjoy the warm weather through our coastal buddies Broken and CD.... oh, I think I hear a seagull.... lol.

 

[Broken74]

Thx for the feedback p0ke and Sim... I'm definitely getting into some meetings, I work about 75 hrs a week and am a single parent, so when I go home I start that job, having to clean, cook, homework, etc... I've just felt super busy between life and Johns situation. Trying to keep him occupied. Next week I have some time off, I'm looking at finding some meetings to check out then, once I get started it will fall into my routine.

I am a bit depressed today. John made a comment twice now that he will always still need percs, that he's not quitting everything, just the heavy stuff. I know the percs lead to roxy with him, which led him here. I just remind him of the path and how he got here, but it's his choice. I've been neglecting my own pain in my neck for so long that I now have a migraine and it will last sometimes for weeks. It is a recent injury, and I take medication ONLY as needed. Most times that means weeks of not one single pill. I'll still be in pain during that time, but I bear it as long as possible or try other methods, gentle stretching, rest, massaging etc...all the time in the back of my mind is the fear of what my brother went through, and other friends or loved ones. I really don't want to do the surgery the dr recommends of replacing two disk with artificial and fusing the other one. Anyhow....my point is that I'm mending my own pain, so as not to let john see me take medication that might tempt him, and it's upsetting to me that he tells me he still plans to take them. I'm going to ask him to go to a meeting tonight, I think things sound better to him when they come from someone else, even though it's the same stuff I say, lol.

 

[zaramorf]

Thx for the feedback p0ke and Sim... I'm definitely getting into some meetings, I work about 75 hrs a week and am a single parent, so when I go home I start that job, having to clean, cook, homework, etc... I've just felt super busy between life and Johns situation. Trying to keep him occupied. Next week I have some time off, I'm looking at finding some meetings to check out then, once I get started it will fall into my routine.

I am a bit depressed today. John made a comment twice now that he will always still need percs, that he's not quitting everything, just the heavy stuff. I know the percs lead to roxy with him, which led him here. I just remind him of the path and how he got here, but it's his choice. I've been neglecting my own pain in my neck for so long that I now have a migraine and it will last sometimes for weeks. It is a recent injury, and I take medication ONLY as needed. Most times that means weeks of not one single pill. I'll still be in pain during that time, but I bear it as long as possible or try other methods, gentle stretching, rest, massaging etc...all the time in the back of my mind is the fear of what my brother went through, and other friends or loved ones. I really don't want to do the surgery the dr recommends of replacing two disk with artificial and fusing the other one. Anyhow....my point is that I'm mending my own pain, so as not to let john see me take medication that might tempt him, and it's upsetting to me that he tells me he still plans to take them. I'm going to ask him to go to a meeting tonight, I think things sound better to him when they come from someone else, even though it's the same stuff I say, lol.

I really feel for u as he is being selfish and taking the piss.. If he is an opiate addict and he has got clean, taking any opiate is a no no for him, sounds like he doesn't want to give it up, else he wouldn't of said those things.. sounds like u should be paying more attention to yourself gal.. he really is being selfish after you've just helped him get clean.. how is he feeling now? He would be going through the cravings right now.. are you around him all the time to see that he hasn't taken anything? he will need a load of support not just from you but like u said, meetings etc.. and if his work chum is still using and they are together, then he will relapse..

He is a big boy though so let him get on with it, if he's going to do it i'm pretty sure there aint much u can do my dear.. please make sure you're putting u first....

 

[Broken74]

I agree, if he's going to do it, there's nothing I can do to stop him. I said that to his mom also.

As of now, he has not been back to work. He owns a tree service and its temporarily shut down while he cleans up. His worker guy is fired, he won't be working with him anymore. He also has been supervised 100% by myself and his mother, but that will come to an end as of next Thursday. Our schedules will not allow it. And it's up to him.

Zara, I feel what you are saying, that's why I'm depressed. I know that if he is telling me that he will use percs, that chances are...he's going to use percs. And I also know where that will lead. The reason for my depressed feeling is that I will have to remove myself from his life at that point. It just seems inevitable if he is already "planning" this. I guess I'm grieving since I know the outcome of him doing that. When he tells me he feels like taking them and fights it off, I'm understanding to cravings, but to flat out inform me that it's going to happen ...I'm not ok with. So I'll be here for him at this time, but 100% regrouping for myself and how I was handling this. I'm kind. I'm not weak. And I'm not willingly walking this path ever again.

 

[the last dose]

The cold weather has to make it tougher, but p0ke...you got this!!

Happy hump day everyone

Is alcohol bad during recovery? John never had a drinking problem, at most he drank once every few months, never to excess. We did karaoke last night, we as in...john sings I cheer...anyhow he realy over indulged and it started to scare me, thinking about his recovery. It seemed he was drinking to accomplish something in his head, which is scary. What are your thoughts?

Hi kim i dont where he got the energy to do all that and drink when i was on like day 8 i tried a beer and it beat me up really just zonked me im older than him but i havent since but now im starting to finally feel better. NO more bowel issues and i slept 4 hours in a row last night sleep is not overrated.

 

[Broken74]

LD he didn't seem to have any energy at all. I had to literally pack his overnight bag to go from mom's to my house, even then he just seemed "wiped"... finally got him to the car and on the ride to my place he seemed to perk up a bit. Says that getting out and moving about makes him feel better, but makes him feel weak. He drank vodka and took several tequila shots, the more he did the more energetic he seemed. He honestly never left my sight, didn't even use the restroom or else I would have questioned it myself. At his mother's place, she's home all day. Anyhow, none of this matters if in the end he wants to take opiates and plans to.

 

[Broken74]

NO more bowel issues and i slept 4 hours in a row last night sleep is not overrated.

No it isn't! I require 10 hrs to feel completely refreshed! 8 is good. Anything less and I can function, below 4 and I might as well wall through the day in a haze. Glad you got the few hours you did. Solid bowels, solid food, great progress!

 

[the last dose]

I agree, if he's going to do it, there's nothing I can do to stop him. I said that to his mom also.

As of now, he has not been back to work. He owns a tree service and its temporarily shut down while he cleans up. His worker guy is fired, he won't be working with him anymore. He also has been supervised 100% by myself and his mother, but that will come to an end as of next Thursday. Our schedules will not allow it. And it's up to him.

Zara, I feel what you are saying, that's why I'm depressed. I know that if he is telling me that he will use percs, that chances are...he's going to use percs. And I also know where that will lead. The reason for my depressed feeling is that I will have to remove myself from his life at that point. It just seems inevitable if he is already "planning" this. I guess I'm grieving since I know the outcome of him doing that. When he tells me he feels like taking them and fights it off, I'm understanding to cravings, but to flat out inform me that it's going to happen ...I'm not ok with. So I'll be here for him at this time, but 100% regrouping for myself and how I was handling this. I'm kind. I'm not weak. And I'm not willingly walking this path ever again.

Hi kim i do agree with zara any opioids at all leads down the same path right now his tolernace is down so a couple percs do it for him but as tolerance grows he will be snorting roxy 30s then run low on cash and go to heroin again. Ive seen this repeated a thousand times. I myself dont always believe the bad habit replacement theory i think its all individual case. If you are a opiate addict and a alcoholic then it can happen im a two beers three at the most guy and i cant wait to be able to have a couple beers. I guess what im saying is this if you are a very addictive person then maybe stopping one thing could lead to abuse in another but if you only have battled opiate addiction but smoked weed, drank, even did a little coke a couple times a year throughout your life without abusing them doesnt mean now off opiates you will start heavily abusing them. For lots of people i mean alot opiates are their silver bullet and only opiates, theres no denying the rush you get and feeling of power and no denying the fear of withdrawals if stopping. So its all individual everybody is different and yet lots are alike. Actually for me its quite the opposite not having the strength back fully yet to drink a couple beers and smoke weed im not even smoking much makes me tired is hurting me not helping me once i become myself again and able to do those things i'll forget about any other drugs. sorry hope that rambling makes sense

 

[the last dose]

Hi LD and CD: Well, I guess I will join the proud parent club. Thank God I have two sons who both are engineers... one electrical engineer, the other a chemical engineer... so they are scary smart. Of course they are tech savvy... so I called the chem e son and he explained about the "bot" problem which is what is causing problems here, according to some of the posts on the support forum. My password was actually stolen and was not accessible, hence I could not change it, even after several tries... there was virtually nothing to change. He told me to wait... he said that once it is fixed then there is a lag time for changes to be take effect. He was right. I waited and now this morning all is well again, tech-wise.

I am tapering throughout December, so let's leave it at that. I will share as I go along. Basically, I am out of clonidine and cannot get anymore until next year. I do not want to go into private details on this public forum... my son cautioned me about "too much info" getting into wrong hands. Suffice it to say.... health insurance issues, etc that will be resolved in January 2017. Gabapentin was making me sick and lost effectiveness. Therefore, I am tapering but will not be jumping off anytime soon, for sure. I did call my pain doc and moved my appointment out to 2017. That means I am taking a bare minimum of medication each day since what was supposed to last 28 days now has to last around 47 days.
I still have periods of time each day I spend in mild withdrawals, and shorter times in more than mild withdrawals. I want to get through the holidays with the least amount of distress and the least amount of medication. It is a "one day at a time" experience for me right now.

It is now 8 degrees here... not counting the wind chill, which has pushed temps below zero. it is snowing out and is soo pretty... I do not have to go out until this evening... to the PA meeting, if it is not canceled due to weather, which I doubt it will be.

LD: I guess we have to vicariously enjoy the warm weather through our coastal buddies Broken and CD.... oh, I think I hear a seagull.... lol.

Hi sista another two sucessful boys thats great!! i took gabapentin a year or so ago in pain man for nerve pain in my feet it didnt do much so i stopped after six months, maybe its good you stop gabapentin now so maybe you can lose any tolerance then ask for lyrica for withdrawals its a godsend and you take as long as you need to stop. Im not gonna tell you what to do but please dont be so paranoid (alot of paranoia here lately) i was offered gabapentin by someone here that was gonna be nice enough to send me some to help me but got my own lyrica in time. I extended the same offer to broken to send them lyrica to a po box or wherever at my cost i had lots left but they didnt reply and thats fine. There are mostly good people here trying to help each other i fear nothing coming my way on this forum trust me im the kinda guy that would say bring it so i cant tell you what to say or do your judgement is what counts but i received nothing but help here and im only still here to help others. just sayin btw you got snow already oh god ive learned to hate snow over the years.

 

[Broken74]

I didn't reply bcuz I didn't want to do it behind his moms back, also I didn't want to cause any issues in the forum, I think you're not supposed to make that offer so I didn't want to incriminate you anymore than you already had done yourself. But that being said, I did think it was super kind of you to look out for others that way. Just be careful.

 

[Ready2Travel]

TLD: I hear you bro, about the paranoia... lol. My son , though, has spent years online, through playing video games with people around the world, and he just told me to be careful about putting too much out there. He said most people are good people, but it just takes one. Thank you for the part about the judgement... I appreciate it that.
It makes me comfortable to continue to post here. BL does talk about the fact a big piece of their philosophy is harm reduction. I have definitely met that criteria, and then some. However, there are other forums and 12 step meetings that want strict abstinence. So, as long I continue to move downward again... I am at 2 pills a day... one long acting and one short acting.... I will post here. If i go crazy... which I hope to God I do not...I will be honest. I want to get back to one pill but I was useless at that dose.
I could barely take a shower... remember???
AT the two pills, I am a functioning, walking, cleaning and shopping human being. I know I tapered really fast... I am grateful b/c at least I stopped sniffing. So, now I will start to remove fractions of pills when I begin to decrease my dosage in January... not whole pills. Well, unless my doc cuts me off for changing my appointment.
Broken: kudos for being in reality. If he does use, it sounds like you will keep you and your family safe and distance yourself. He doesn't sound done yet, but only time will tell. As I well know, as I do have an addictive personality for some things, not all, I could be sneaky when I had to. But, a person could drive themselves crazy trying to figure out if someone is using or not. Take care of your own pain issues... they sound like they can detract from your quality of life.

 

[cduggles]

A lot happened here!
P0kemama I wish I could share the sun and warmth with you. Hoping you make it through the winter and with current supply. I really do!!

LD, I've basically covered everything but I am happy you are regular and sleeping more. It's time for your body to heal.

Broken74 I agree with everyone here. You need to take care of yourself. Your physical and mental health have been on hold long enough. He needs to own his own recovery. He's an adult and needs to behave like one.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you talked to John about what his goals are? Does he want to stop using? It sounds like he is just as confused as to what is best for him as you and everyone else who is part of the situation is.

I take it John isn't interested in pursuing any kind of treatment for his opioid use disorder? He is an ideal canidate for an opioid use disorder outpatient treatment program (such as one utilizing MAT). Individuals with opioid use disorder similar situations have higher rates of success utilizing such an MAT type program than any other form of treatment, particularly when compared to abstinence only approaches.

Broken74, what you are doing supporting him is commendable, but it is highly inappropriate that he is relying on your prescriptions for his fix. Especially at the cost of your quality of life and ability to manage your own pain/health.

I encourage your to seek professional help for your situation, for John's own well being of course, but for your own in particular.

I apologize for being the harbinger of bad news, but in cases like these things either tend to take a long time to sort themselves out or get worse before they get better.

Good luck!

 

[Broken74]

Toothpaste he dosent rely on my prescription. I may have worded that wrong, I just don't take them bcuz I don't want them around to tempt him. Im definitely doing me after hearing him tell me he will use percs again at some point.

What is MAT?

 

[Jabberwocky]

That is good to hear, that he isn't taking your medications. I probably just misunderstood some of the earlier posts.

Medication assisted treatment. In his case it would probably be buprenorphine/Suboxone treatment, but it also includes stuff like methadone and naltrexone (these two sounds inappropriate given his circumstances).

See this pdf about MAT: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuNdydJNzUmV0hqZjRzd2hYRFk/view

 

[Broken74]

Early on we were talking of a taper method, but his mom insisted cold turkey, so all that changed. So if you were referring to the original posts, then yes, I was offering my meds to help taper down ... although I didn't realize it was fentanyl at the time and I doubt my 10mg percs were going to help wean off an i.v. half bag of fentanyl , multiple times a day habit. I'm glad he's off of that, just have to see how he decides to move forward with his life or if he would prefer to go backwards.

 

[the last dose]

I didn't reply bcuz I didn't want to do it behind his moms back, also I didn't want to cause any issues in the forum, I think you're not supposed to make that offer so I didn't want to incriminate you anymore than you already had done yourself. But that being said, I did think it was super kind of you to look out for others that way. Just be careful.

Its ok i was just showing compassion after goin thru this crap myself, lyrica is schedule V i dont think its that bad anyhow i was willing to take that chance, somebody here offered the same help to me.
If i was to get in trouble for trying to help someone get thru the hell of opioid wd and possibly end the addiction than so be it. thanks for the kind words kim i hope john steers clear of ops he getting too old for that shit trust me it gets tougher the older you are.

BTW ive been lifting weights everyday and doing some cardio feeling pretty good now i lost around 10lbs during wd and i want to keep it off. The best way to beat paws is to beat the hell out of it with exercise, i find myself a little low on energy after work feeling like i cant workout then once i start i power thu it with np its so easy to say i dont feel like it and feel sorry for myself but i already notice im lifting the same even actually had gains in weights so opioids make you weak!. no more bowel issues all im taking is bp med now got some rebound hypertension.