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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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shugenja said:
Structural isomers have the exact same mass, and the exact same building blocks -- meaning they may (some absolutely do) look like the same parent and child compounds to a mass spectrometer. (the MS part of GCMS)

Some elute from the column of a Gas Chromatograph at the same time -- meaning the GC portion of GCMS sees them as the same thing.

This is a known issue with certain compounds and GCMS.

6-Methyl-MDA is a structural isomer of 3,4 MDMA -- as is 2,3 MDMA

6-Methyl MDA has an effects profile that matches the 'new MDMA'
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Im back, I can't argue with you anymore about the new synthesis so don't even bring it up with me, because you hurt my feelings...but this is fertile ground for correcting you again

No legitimate analytical lab would choose to not monitor the product ions of the fragmentation, (look up MRM/SIM analysis industry standard for confirming). otherwise like you said there are potentially many things that could give the same mass as mdma. Any lab that put out results and wouldn't monitor MRM fragmentations would have probably been shut down or gone out of business by now.

Therefore 6-Methyl-MDA would be eliminated very easily as a possibility, even with the same retention time as mdma (which is also not much of a possibility to happen).

METH-edrone (not MEPH-edrone) Is a better example that could be confused from MDMA by MRM mass spectrometry. But could be differentiated by color change reagent kits which i believe the OP also used to test no?...although the pills could be a mix of both mdma and methedrone and give the black color.

Sorry thanks for playing though.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Im back, I can't argue with you anymore about the new synthesis so don't even bring it up with me, because you hurt my feelings...but this is fertile ground for correcting you again

No legitimate analytical lab would choose to not monitor the product ions of the fragmentation, (look up MRM/SIM analysis industry standard for confirming). otherwise like you said there are potentially many things that could give the same mass as mdma. Any lab that put out results and wouldn't monitor MRM fragmentations would have probably been shut down or gone out of business by now.

Therefore 6-Methyl-MDA would be eliminated very easily as a possibility, even with the same retention time as mdma (which is also not much of a possibility to happen).

METH-edrone (not MEPH-edrone) Is a better example that could be confused from MDMA by MRM mass spectrometry. But could be differentiated by color change reagent kits which i believe the OP also used to test no?...although the pills could be a mix of both mdma and methedrone and give the black color.

Sorry thanks for playing though.
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I actually haven't performed a reagent test yet. But I still have some of this crap left. Which tests would you recommend and I'll get them.
 
...whichever ones show that cathinones will turn red. I am sure they won't because this mass produced pills would be giving tons of negative results everywhere in the world if that was the case. Doesn't mean they didn't spike it with mdma to fool reagent tests. The only way to disprove my theory on the METH-drone would be to send it back to a lab and ask that they rule out METHedrone as being present, which according to the science literature can easily be confused for mdma on the GCMS or LCMS tests.

If I were you I would write to some university professors that ressearch in this fields, maybe show them this thread....maybe MAPS can point you in the right direction...Its something that even a high volume analytical testing lab might not be catching and will require experimentation and development of new methods not used in routine practice to figure out if this is a real or imagined phenomena.

There could also be impurities present in the final MDMA which somehow change the subjective effects...a lab may not catch these impurities if they don't consider them being there. Its a very complicated problem to solve if it is a real thing....they would have to look at the chemical composition itself and do research on the pharmacology of it depending what advanced analysis shows.

or they could just conclude results with 100% certainty based on theory and other slightly related science thats been done without doing any experimentation....like other posters in this thread seem to believe is possible to conclude something.
 
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except that the mixmag article talks about how great the pills are

and there is not one -- NOT 1 --- reasonable process path that will result in a chiral isomer of MDMA from PMK-glycidate
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
The chemistry may be complicated.

The experienced users subjective experience isn't.
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And the most REASONABLE hypothesis (assuming the r-isomer argument) is that someone found a bunch/made a bunch of r-isomeric MDA (cause there is a published EASY synthesis - and that's the MDA isomer you want) and then decided to make MDMA from it

which would give you r-MDMA

not some BS crap about PMK-gly which has been used in MDMA synth since 2010

the second most reasonable hypothesis is a structural isomer -- (geometric, skeletal, functional)

The least likely is some fanciful glycidic impurity that can "infect" the entire synthesis and cause a chiral excess
 
shugenja said:
And the most REASONABLE hypothesis (assuming the r-isomer argument) is that someone found a bunch/made a bunch of r-isomeric MDA (cause there is a published EASY synthesis - and that's the MDA isomer you want) and then decided to make MDMA from it

which would give you r-MDMA

not some BS crap about PMK-gly which has been used in MDMA synth since 2010

the second most reasonable hypothesis is a structural isomer -- (geometric, skeletal, functional)

The least likely is some fanciful glycidic impurity that can "infect" the entire synthesis and cause a chiral excess
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I would love some mda . As long as this has been going on though , that would have been a large batch of mda they ruined !
 
Interestingly enough, this new type of MDMA much more resembles MDA than it does old-school MDMA. Especially the comedown and the following day or two.

Le Junk
 
Well if the new stuff is R-MDMA, it will be a super easy hypothesis to test. But back to the GC/MS discussion, geometric isomers don't always have a lot in common. For example, epedrine and PMA.
 
1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-2-methylaminopropane.png


EPHEDRINE
 
Aleo, if someone had perfectly good R-MDA, why on earth would they go to the trouble of converting it to shitty R-MDMA?
 
Dresden said:
Aleo, if someone had perfectly good R-MDA, why on earth would they go to the trouble of converting it to shitty R-MDMA?
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Because they didn't know it was r-MDA

Like I said -- it could very well be left over from long ago
 
shugenja said:
The pure MDMA would have to be extracted from the pills as any adulterants would cause the rotation to be skewed.
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Whilst everyone else may complain about your general attitude, I admire your dedication to the subject. What would you suggest we do to try and solve the mystery? Keeping in mind we should work as a team here and not be arguing with each other :)
 
shugenja said:
The pure MDMA would have to be extracted from the pills as any adulterants would cause the rotation to be skewed.
Click to expand...

I had an 8 ball of pure powder of the new stuff. That was what I thought you had.
 
Brenner said:
Whilst everyone else may complain about your general attitude, I admire your dedication to the subject. What would you suggest we do to try and solve the mystery? Keeping in mind we should work as a team here and not be arguing with each other :)
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Treat it as science, and start the process by attempting to falsify the initial hypothesis of pure r-isomer.

This could be done by extracting the MDMA -- testing for purity by melting point, and then using a polarimeter, Mosher's process, or some other low cost but scientifically effective process.

If we made the free base from the purified MDMA -- and then used r-tartaric acid (chiral) to precipitate MDMA-tartrate, if it was only 1 isomer it would all precipitate out, OR NONE WOULD -- if the free-base partially precipitated -- racemic


The next steps could be done in any order. Simply because GCMS says it's MDMA -- does not mean it actually IS MDMA.

Regardless of protestation to the contrary, skeletal, functional, and geometric isomers (that have many functional groups in common) can be very difficult to differentiate with standard GCMS.

5-Methyl MDA and 6-Methyl MDA are both isomers (not stereo) of MDMA , as is 2,3 MDMA

The methyl MDA compounds have a profile of effect that is similar to what is reported.

Just because something is pressed the same -- does not mean it's the same batch.



Le Junk identified that the "mongy" MDMA made him cracked out and high for 2 days -- that is not what r-MDMA does, it has a very slight action (+1) even at 200 mg that is gone in 6 hours

5-APB or 6-APB however, are 2 compounds that are remarkably identical to MDMA in effect -- some people say better a 200 mg dose of an APB would probably make you feel high for 2 days (75 mg can rock you for 12 hours)

the mongy effects sound alot like higher doses of 5-Methyl or 6-Methyl MDA -- wonder if they look like MDMA to a GCMS

They could be slightly different but in the sample noise
 
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