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What aspects of the atheist religion do you like/dislike?

I have heard this "Atheism is a Religion" argument for quite a while. I would contend that there is a confusion between what Atheism is (a state of being where belief in god is not present) and the community which has sprung up around Atheists who are seeking a connection to others who share their views. Lets ts ignore the former as it is clearly not a religion.

The latter can be viewed as a religion by some as there are shared views on how the universe operates and a number of activities which resemble religious practice (common arguments, conventions, etc). I find that there is a great leap to calling it a religion in the true sense of the word. This includes; no belief in and worship of a supreme being; no common faith based beliefs; no codified practices, rituals or observances.

personally I've never understood why the religious are hell bent (pardon the pun) on labelling Atheism a religion, as I've never understood why Atheism scares so many people. What I would really like is for people to remember that we all have to inhabit this tiny blue dot in an ocean of true hostility, and the most important thing is for us to continue to live and gather knowledge about who we are and where we live. I don't believe in a god, but for those who do why else would we have intellect and the capacity to acquire knowledge?
 
I think it's funny when people try to accuse atheism of being a religion, it's kind of like they are saying, "atheism is a religion too and therefor also illogical"
 
(Kelso) said:
I have heard this "Atheism is a Religion" argument for quite a while.
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Honestly when I started this thread I never saw anything about the argument, but I heard on NPR that some Washington atheist mega church was splitting up over a disagreement. No matter what you believe even if it is in nothing it is still religion. Drinking good bourbon with good friends is religion to me
 
falsifiedhypothesi said:
I think it's funny when people try to accuse atheism of being a religion, it's kind of like they are saying, "atheism is a religion too and therefor also illogical"
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I believe most deliberate followers can understand doubts about God; but yes, it is an attempt to classify skepticism as a belief system and eliminate the whole concept.
 
The whole thing about atheism as a religion seems to ring true for me. I initially viewed it as something completely counter to religion, but after being taught by a highly experienced professional, I've come to believe that it's a secular religion. It's based off of the whole idea that religion exists. Without religion, there would be no atheism. The same is true for agnosticism.

I don't view atheism as illogical any more than I do many religious beliefs.

Skepticism is, historically speaking, a frame of mind or philosophical viewpoint. Montaigne was an accomplished skeptic, but when it came to belief in a deity he was right in line with many of his religious cohorts.
 
Whether atheism is a religion or not is a matter of intellectual masturbation.

Atheism is nonetheless an existential assertion about the basis of reality, via negativa. Maybe you're not actively believing in something, but when the world is mostly occupied by believers, your non-belief speaks volumes.

Think about centuries ago. Atheists would've really stood out and been persecuted. It's great that they're not these days (mostly), but my point is... atheism is significant enough of a phenomenon that it has an impact on society and culture. It's not just a non-event, no matter how much atheists claim it is.
 
Journyman16 said:
There is a redefining of words going on with Atheists - it's like they have decided that maybe being believers of the antithesis of Theists is sIGodhing no knowledge about something very specific. To anmehow demeaning and they are trying to abrogate the position of Agnostics. An Atheist is 'against God' and in the actual meaning, denies God. If Atheists are not certain they are, again by definition, not Atheists but Agnostics.

So let's not start redefining words as some kind of squib reaction to being found out to be believers, let's stick with the actual meanings and make Atheists decide if they wish to remain God-Deniers or move into the 'I don't know' camp.

I think we have more than enough PC word-changing going on in our world - let's not add more to the mess?
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Say we order a pizza, a pepperoni pizza. It is delievered and you pay for the pizza, thank you, and then bring it to the table, or couch, and upon opening the box, you do not see the pepperoni. It can neither be touched nor felt nor heard. It can't be sensed in any way.

As an atheist, I point out that this is not a pepperoni pizza. That pepperoni that are invisible, odorless, and tasteless are not pepperoni.

So our religious roommate comes in and says, "Oh hey, I see you guys ordered a pep!"; mooch mooch mooch, and we sit down and eat.

I eat my cheese pizza, our roommate eats his "pepperoni" pizza, and you eat some quasi-bullshit-pepperoni pizza. You do not deny being unable to sense the pepperoni, but you think maybe the roommate's theory that the unseen pepperoni is in a timeless dimension and that pizza cannot exist without a pepperoni creator, just might be true?
 
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It really depends on how you define religion and atheist. Atheism to me is simply the disbelief in a god(s), to me it's not a belief system at all. I would define religion as a system of beliefs based around something supernatural or spiritual.
 
Atheism to me is simply the disbelief in a god(s), to me it's not a belief system at all. I would define religion as a system of beliefs based around something supernatural or spiritual.
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But disbelief is a belief.
To disbelieve in God, you believe there is no God.
It's still "a system of (dis)beliefs based around something supernatural or spiritual".

Say we order a pizza, a pepperoni pizza.
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That's some profound shit.
 
ForEverAfter said:
But disbelief is a belief.
To disbelieve in God, you believe there is no God.
It's still "a system of (dis)beliefs based around something supernatural or spiritual".
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Perfect example. Even though it is a non-pepperoni pizza; you still manage to say that no pepperoni on a pizza is a type of pepperoni pizza. Either because you can't comprehend the idea of a cheese pizza or you desperately want it for arguments' sake.

Is non-pepperoni a type of pepperoni? Yes, it is the non type. What is the non type? It is defined as not being pepperoni. It could be anchovies, mustard, rocks, a book. What it is not, is pepperoni. That is what makes it non-pepperoni.

There are two categories ever-y-thing falls into. One of those categories is pepperoni and the other is non-pepperoni. You can't suppose non-pepperoni is a type of pepperoni any more than you could say that pepperoni is a type of non-pepperoni.

The same goes for any non-word. You can't say a non-word is a type of word. A non-word would be a number, a pigeon, some water. A word these are not.

So why then would non-belief be a kind of belief? It is non-sense.
 
Zero is a number.
Disbelief is a belief.

The lack of belief isn't a belief, obviously.
But lack of belief isn't disbelief.

why then would non-belief be a kind of belief? It is non-sense.
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Non-belief isn't a type of belief. But disbelief is a type of belief, because - in order to specifically disbelieve something - you need to have a belief (that it is untrue).

You're getting lost in your pizza analogy.
Take a breath and think about it.

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(I'm not convinced atheism is a belief, for the record.
Just having a discussion.)
 
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I am not lost in my pepperoni analogy. It can be used to represent lots of different stuff.

Can you count to zero?
 
Yes, you can count to zero. What do you think countdown means?
But even if you couldn't, I'm not sure what the point is supposed to be.
You're getting lost in another analogy, now.

The point is, it (zero) is a number (not a letter).
Just as the null set is a set, rather than an aardvark.

I am not lost in my pepperoni analogy. It can be used to represent lots of different stuff.
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Sure, but anything can be used to represent anything.
The question is, should it be used? Does it fit?
It's a pretty poor analogy.

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Let's keep this simple. It isn't hard to understand.
If you specifically BELIEVE that there is no God, that is a belief.
It is not a "system of beliefs". But, it is a belief. Get me?

A non-word would be a number, a pigeon, some water.
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Again: disbelief is not a "non-belief"; it is a belief.
Seriously, take a breath and think about it.
 
I don't like any aspect of the atheist religion.

In India atheism in known as "the religion of belief in the disbelief".
 
This got massively semantic. Break it down some more. Can. It?

The absence of a belief is different to the presence of disbelief. I cannot tell if that statement makes sense.

I think that these sort of discussions demonstrate something fundamental and important about how human brains process information and language.

Is it logical to describe temperature in terms of how hot it isn't? When we talk of religious people and atheists as having the same character of belief, are we committing an equivocation fallacy? The belief that there IS a god is different to disbelief in it. We have to use the same words, but the definitions are definitions.

Although I don't understand the desire to place atheistic belief on a standing with religious belief, as is sometimes done only by the religious. Are they trying to degrade atheism by comparing it to their own views? That's crazy to me. :| Personally, I rather distance myself from those I consider lunatics...
 
^This is one of your posts that I don't like. It would be nice if this was a place that people with religious inclinations could feel free to discuss theology and religion, and - as a moderator - I don't feel like you facilitate that sometimes. The moderators of P&S, in general, have never been religious (since I've been frequenting the site). People shit on Christianity everywhere. Like I said, it would be nice if this sub-forum was different. But, I encounter the same level of stereotyping and pigeonholing and disrespect here as I do anywhere else. It's a shame, I think.

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Anyway, I can't speak for everyone but - personally - I have absolutely no "desire" for atheism to be religious.

It (believing there is no God) is closer to religion than agnosticism.
Religion is "a system of beliefs based around something supernatural or spiritual".
Atheism is "a belief based around something supernatural or spiritual".
There isn't an extraordinary amount of difference.

Although I don't understand the desire to place atheistic belief on a standing with religious belief, as is sometimes done only by the religious. Are they trying to degrade atheism by comparing it to their own views? That's crazy to me. Personally, I rather distance myself from those I consider lunatics...
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I don't think it's necessary or helpful to lump everyone who thinks atheism has religious qualities into one group, define their motives, and call them crazy/lunatics. Are you trying to discredit the argument by discrediting your opposition?

This got massively semantic.
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It was semantic from the get-go.

Atheists argue that the religious are crazy for believing in something that they cannot prove.
Yet, atheists do the same thing. They specifically disbelieve in something they cannot prove.
And they have a fucking church, for fuck's sake!

I find it odd that Buddhists and atheists are so afraid of the word religion, while - at the same time - they behave like a religion.
Again, for the record, I'm not convinced that atheism is a religion. But there are similarities, and what's the harm in dissecting them?

The belief that there IS a god is different to disbelief in it.
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Obviously. But, they are both beliefs.
You could flip it around and say:

The belief that there IS NO god is different to disbelief (that there is no God).
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It's totally arbitrary.
And, either way, both are beliefs.

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What if there was an atheist Bible and there was a "system of (dis)beliefs"?

There kind of is a system.
Richard Dawkins and (the late) Christopher Hitchens preach atheism.
They go around talking to people about the fact that God doesn't exist, and why he doesn't exist.
Religious people go around talking to people about the fact that God exists and why he exists.
Again, there isn't an extraordinary amount of difference.

Would you agree - at least - that some people treat atheism as a religion?
 
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Yes, you can count down, but why not start at 0, if zero is not a unique number? If I told you to count to 1 how would you do it?

Why not count to zero by saying 0, or count to ten by saying 10?
 
i'm a strong christian, so of course i don't like anything about atheism. I guess what i dislike about it is how mind blowing it is to me that someone could think that all of this around you, good or bad, wasn't created by a higher being. Big bang theory, etc. is just idiotic to think that it just "popped up" one day. and to think that when you die, you're just gone or come back as another existence, is not only unsettling, it doesn't make any sense. All of this has to be for something, in my opinion. But what i dislike the most is how people of different beliefs get so in your face about their religion, christians too. FYI not trying to change or dog anyones beliefs, just stating my opinion for the OP's question.
 
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