Legalising v decriminalising drugs A half-smoked joint

[poledriver]

I wont to go camping and surfing on stradbroke island some day -

 

[One Thousand Words]

One of my good mates use to dive the Seaway and take blood samples from passing sharks as part of his Thesis into neuroanatomy. After seeing the size of some of the tiger sharks that followed the trawlers in he refused to paddle across to Sth Straddie to surf ever again.

If you want to dump a body and ensure it is never found, that photo is the spot to do it.

 

[poledriver]

Back to the article tho -

But decriminalisation is only half the answer. As long as supplying drugs remains illegal, the business will remain a criminal monopoly.

Yeah, but what government is ever going to make drugs like meth, coke, lsd and mdma legal? Or ketamine, heroin, gbl, etc etc? None.

They might decriminalise it for end users, so anyone caught with relatively small amounts doesnt face any legal action but I really cant see them making them legal and selling them to anyone over 18 or anything like that.

I could see them doing something like letting registered addicts get scripts for a couple of things, like oxy or speed pills, but that wouldnt stop them buying heroin or ice.

The only drug I could see possibly becoming fully legal in the next how ever many decades would be cannabis, and the approach something like Colorado used, but even that wouldnt stop the black market, people would still grow and sell it illegally, like there is still a black market in Colo apparently they just offer it a bit cheaper than the stores.

 

[poledriver]

How the hell do you take blood samples from passing sharks?

 

[neversickanymore]

Right before i swooped into the gold coast I spent a week or so on herion island diving... some of the very best diving I have done. and done a grip of that activity.. but yeah the sharks in aussie land are no joke.. all over the fucking place.. white tips and black tips clearly big enough to eat me.. with the water magnification the biggest white tip looked to be 12 to 14 feet long.

Also got caught in a rip current on a beach on TGC and swept to like twenty feet from the nets.. that was a pretty exhausting swim.

NSFW:

herion island black tip

 

[poledriver]

White pointers and what are the black tip ones? Yeah rips can be fucked, I'd want to be connected to a board personally.

Sharks dont worry me, seems pretty low on what 'might' happen, shark attacks are pretty rare compared to how many people swim and surf all over Aus all yr.

Heroin (heron) island hehe Sounds nice. I'd love to do that too, I did it in Fiji which was awesome on the coral coast there.

 

[neversickanymore]

ROFL... Freudian slip there..

Blacktip shark

The reason though that people on boards get attacked is they more closely resemble the sharks natural prey.

kinda like drug users look like money signs to law enforcement

 

[One Thousand Words]

How the hell do you take blood samples from passing sharks?

They would have two guys with nooses attached to end of pool scoops who would lasso the head and tail while a third nut case would swim in close and grab the samples. They would also catch them and drag them on board a boat to take samples but the bigger ones wouldn't fit. The guy was one of the leading experts in catching and holding sharks in captivity when we were at uni but went back and studied medicine.

I snorkelled with blacktips and rays in Tahiti last year. They are pretty tame. I'd be more worried about bullsharks in the Gold Coast waterways. Plenty of dogs get taken while swimming in those canals.

 

[legalizeall]

Back to the article tho -



Yeah, but what government is ever going to make drugs like meth, coke, lsd and mdma legal? Or ketamine, heroin, gbl, etc etc? None.

They might decriminalise it for end users, so anyone caught with relatively small amounts doesnt face any legal action but I really cant see them making them legal and selling them to anyone over 18 or anything like that.

I could see them doing something like letting registered addicts get scripts for a couple of things, like oxy or speed pills, but that wouldnt stop them buying heroin or ice.

The only drug I could see possibly becoming fully legal in the next how ever many decades would be cannabis, and the approach something like Colorado used, but even that wouldnt stop the black market, people would still grow and sell it illegally, like there is still a black market in Colo apparently they just offer it a bit cheaper than the stores.

Whatever it is that is made legal, the blackmarket for it will implode on itself everytime as the balckmarket will become nonexistent. Like alchohol, how many people that drink get it from their connect. they go to the store. Like someone said earlier, casino revuene has dried up. If their is any of this being sold illegally today, its nowhere enough to make a difference or bankroll a whole cartel. It might take a little time but when its legal, the black market will dry up.

Its gonna be a long road even for cannabis let alone other drugs. My state passed the bill almost two years ago and still no shops. Their worried about supply too when they open so they have to be careful when making it legal anywhere. They have to have things set up before like colorado or else the black market defeat just wont happen. I get so sick of dealing with dealers and their view of time that ill gladly walk down the street to a shop. o

That truly is the only way to stop all the violence and corruption from the drug war, make everything legal and make it pure. But with so much money in it and dirty politicians around the world, along with LE jobs and the prison industrial complex in the u.s., i dont see them taking their hand out of the cookie jar. Plus too, another problem arises is the government will be in control of drugs which comes with its own issues.

Plus with the elites thinking that were too populated on earth, maybe legalizing everything would help cut back on some of the idiots of the world. Ive always thought its a persons body and they should be able to do whatever they want with it. Why is drinking gasoline illegal?

 

[poledriver]

Whatever it is that is made legal, the blackmarket for it will implode on itself everytime as the balckmarket will become nonexistent. Like alchohol, how many people that drink get it from their connect. they go to the store. Like someone said earlier, casino revuene has dried up. If their is any of this being sold illegally today, its nowhere enough to make a difference or bankroll a whole cartel. It might take a little time but when its legal, the black market will dry up.

Yep I see the point with alcohol and do you think that will eventually be the same if Colorado stays the way it is? I mean will Colorado eventually have no black market in weed because everyone just goes to the legal shops? That isn't the case at present is it, people are apparently under cutting the shops prices and still selling, but I guess it is very early days still. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

[neversickanymore]

I would say that the weed that is sold on a grey market in colorado is actually more expensive.. but its of higher quality.. but there was a big thing that went down on the first of july but i haven't looked into the results.. but basically it was something to do with hemp stamps and making it a lot easier for the in house grows to break into the market without allot of red tape.. so basically go buy the hemp stamps, give the gov the money and your set as far as it was explained to me.. maybe need to do a little more research on this.

 

[One Thousand Words]

What are the laws for personal grows?

 

[poledriver]

Interesting NSA, i thought I saw a doco that said BM dealers were selling a bit cheaper. I may be getting it mixed up.

1kw -

It also allows one to possess up to six marijuana plants "with three of fewer being mature, flowering plants," but the growing must take place in an enclosed, locked and non-public space.

That's what the law there was, not sure if that's still the case.

 

[poledriver]

I guess that should say - with three OR fewer being mature,

Taken from -

http://mashable.com/2013/12/31/colorado-marijuana-law/

 

[neversickanymore]

What are the laws for personal grows?

Since the enactment of Colorado Amendment 64, adults aged 21 or older can grow up to six cannabis plants (with no more than half being mature flowering plants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Colorado

So everyone over twenty one in the house can have three in veg and three in bud... when we start talking about medicinal there is allot of grey area at the moment, with some doctors prescribing unlimited plant counts to certain individuals, or edible licenses with higher plant counts for people.. while the law may say three and three for each red license there are doctors who are prescribing 12 and 12 for people regularly.

The commercial ops are licensed to go well over these numbers, but are required to distribute there product to licensed dispensaries, register and track there plants, and they usually have contracts with these venders.

As of july 1st I I think all weed going to a dispensary is required to be tested (and possibly other levels) for thc levels before it is allowed to be sold buy the commercial medicinal or recreational ops. The prices for medicinal disp is quite a bit cheaper than the recreational prices as the dispensaries are separate or split. (though i haven't taken the time to look into why.)

Interesting NSA, i thought I saw a doco that said BM dealers were selling a bit cheaper.

Street prices for little amounts are lower while street prices for bulk are higher when street is compaired to the commercial and medical and suppliers for them. So if this was confusing, an quarter on the street is cheaper, but a LB (or kilo) sold on the street is more expensive than what the disp pay usually pay for it, though this may be attributed to the bulk the disp buys in.

 

[S.J.B.]

I don't know OTW.. you really think that some bikes stand a chance against the real hard hitters called big pharma? I don't think so...

It all depends on the extent of legalization. If access is highly limited and taxes are extreme, then there will still be room for organized crime types.

But in anything close to a free market? The idea of a bunch of bikers or Mafia types competing against Teva or Sandoz is laughable.

 

[drug_mentor]

You have obviously never been in the night club district of Surfers Paradise or Kings Cross. The whole place is run by criminals. Drugs are a major factor but you can't ignore alcohol is the main DOC in these areas. Like I said earlier, following prohibition, the ones who filled the void were the ones who ran the illegal operations during the ban.

The Gold Coast is a perfect location to introduce legal cannabis in my opinion. Not only does it have the great weather, attractions and beautiful beaches, it would also completely change the alcohol fuelled mayhem that currently exists. I'm under no illusions however who will put their hands up to supply the industry.

I don't see how criminals owning some (even if it were a majority, which I highly doubt it is outside of some concentrated areas) establishments that serve alcohol is remotely close to the same thing as organised crime controlling alcohol supply. The drinks sold at these nightclubs are (hopefully) not being adulterated by the criminals selling them, nor do they make up even close to a majority of the total alcohol that is sold in this Country. You can't compare criminals owning a few bars and nightclubs while billions of dollars worth of alcohol are made and sold by legal companies to the illicit drug situation where, with the exception of diverted prescription drugs, criminals handle not only the manufacturing but distribution of the product at every single level.

I don't think anybody has ever made the argument that if you legalise drugs all the criminals will go straight tomorrow, or even that criminals would not be able to put their hand in the trade in any way, shape or form, but it has to be acknowledged that their influence on the drug trade in general, as well as their ability to generate huge profits from it would be severely diminished by drug law reform.

It is a little off topic but I have a friend who does work for the dole, the place he works distribute a lot of plastic jewelry (as well as food) to poor families, I guess to give their kids as gifts or something, I really don't know. Any way, he has complained to me that all they do all day on some days is sit and cross out the barcodes on these packets of jewelry with a permanent marker, the reason the company has to do this because some recipients of this charity will attempt to return the jewelry to stores and get a cash refund. I guess what my point is in sharing this anecdote is it really does not matter at all what you are talking about, there will always be some people out there who are trying to illegally manipulate a situation for profit or self gain. That does not change the fact that when you legalise and regulate an industry you have a lot more power to reduce the rate that this type of behaviour occurs.

 

[spacejunk]

^ and on the other end of things....tobacco corporations knew for decades that their products were lethal, yet their aggressive marketing and official denial continued.
How do you define "organised crime", really?
Ultimately I think the most important outcome should be health, safety and respect for communities.

Prohibition hasn't decreased
- demand for drugs - quite the opposite
- the risks associated with taking them (no quality control or information given to consumers regarding purity/impurity)
or
- social problems associated with addiction (property crimes, violence, incarceration and the many negative outcomes of other legal issues) or trafficking (turf wars, horrific cartel battles, etc).

Drugs can be the cause of many problems - but it is increasingly evident that prohibition creates many of its own - and in many cases is the root cause of the danger of certain drugs.

 

[LearntYoung]

Legalize everything, from heroin to weed.
I have it all worked out:

Governments sell legal and pure products for reasonable prices, getting a small tax for the possible increase in health insurance costs.
The same place that sells the drugs also offers rehab possibilities and has information about the drugs you're going to buy.
That way you have pure products, informed people and addicts are always confronted with a possible rehab if they get their fix.
The bar of buying at a government place is probably higher than buying it from a friend and it's still not a normal thing, because it's not in regular shops (like alcohol and tobacco)

Governments don't have to pay money in fighting drug crimes, instead they earn money from selling drugs.
No more victims by smuggling and the money earned is going to honest tax payers instead of dealing criminals.

I think this would even be less thrill seaking for young people, because it's legal and therefore not that interesting.
I sure as hell would've been happy knowing the dangers of MDMA and alcohol before I started it, because I could've been way more responsible with it.

You can also regulate different drugs for different ages.
Sure, there will be street dealers which buy stuff there and sell it on the street to younger people and that still has to be fought, but at least those young people will be sure to get a pure product.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Purity doesn't equal safety. In fact you will more likely overdose from a pure product, particularly if you are talking about a substance like heroin where peoples tolerance means an average dose varies greatly between users.

No government is in the business of distributing drugs, just as they are not in the business of selling tobacco or alcohol. It is counter productive for them to try and balance a health budget while at the same time being responsible for placing pressures on it. Sick people don't work and therefore can't pay taxes.

You can talk about education all you want but there is a significant proportion of people who still don't wear their seat belts or attempt to do their own electrical work. I'd argue that it is probably the same percentage of people who get into serious trouble with their drug taking today. Legalising all drugs won't stop the idiots dying any more than than it will stop idiots killing themselves train surfing.