Who has run proviron? Questions...

A

AlmostFamous

Bluelighter
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
435
How does it compare to Masteron? Was it beneficial, would you run it again? Any negatives? I've run Masteron @ 600mg and loved it. Only negative I had was slight mood swings/irritability at times, but that stuff will make you look like a sculpted rock if you're at the right bf%. Muscles look lean, but still full. Love the way it enhances your physique

At this moment, I could get a really sweet deal that would make Proviron much more cost effective than Masteron for a cycle. I would run it 12-14 weeks with just Test(600mg-750mg/week). Is it safe to run that long? And from what I've read, 50-75mg is the optimal dose? That is all. :)
 
Proviron itself doesn't really do anything. It acts as an AI, and potentiates other steroids you're running.
And obviously every time you lower estrogen your lipid profile is gonna get worse.
Proviron is not very hepatoxic (maybe it's not at all). So you could run it that long, but I'm not sure about it.
 
Ok mate first a few questions: What is your current Height/weight/body fat % / training experience.

With that being said you need to learn a little bit about Masteron and Proviron.

Masteron: http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/masteron/
"Masteron (dromostanolone propionate, also known as drostanolone propionate) after a long period of time as a rare drug is now enjoying greater popularity, and deservedly so.
Where one does not wish to use a large amount of injectable testosterone and wishes to use either no trenbolone or only a modest amount of that drug, Masteron is often an ideal choice for inclusion in a steroid stack, or in some cases for use as the sole injectable for a steroid cycle.
Masteron Side Effects
Masteron undergoes no aromatization (conversion to estrogen), no conversion to DHT or potentiation by the 5-AR enzyme, and as an unalkylated steroid it poses no liver issues. In these regards and also in overall side effects, Masteron is best compared with Primobolan Depot.
In terms of positive effects in an anabolic steroid cycle, Masteron is at least as effective as Primobolan per milligram for mass gain and for fat loss, and appears better for hardening.
Masteron as an Anti-Estrogen
Dromostanolone has some reputation for anti-estrogenic activity, but in actuality this effect is fairly subtle. If due to use of aromatizing steroids a steroid cycle would produce substantially excessive levels of estrogen, adding Masteron to the cycle will not fix that. Instead, an anti-aromatase such as letrozole or anastrozole should be used. However, where only a moderate amount of aromatizing steroid is being used, Masteron can in many instances be sufficient as the sole anti-estrogenic agent." and excerpt from the above Link

Proviron:http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/proviron/
"Proviron (mesterolone) is an interesting anabolic steroid, though it is not of much value to bodybuilding. It seems that the most common reason for many to consider including it in a steroid stack is for anti-estrogenic activity. In the days before anti-aromatases and the use of SERMs (selective estrogen receptor modulators) such as Clomid and Nolvadex, there was some merit to this.

An amount of aromatizing steroid marginally over the amount that would be tolerable without Proviron became tolerable with the inclusion of it. However, the effect is indeed only marginal, and much better anti-estrogenic agents now exist. When these are used, there is no need for Proviron as an anti-estrogen.

The mechanism by which it has some effectiveness in this regard is from binding weakly to the estrogen receptor without activating it, and to the aromatase enzyme. In the first case, this partially reduces the number of receptor sites momentarily available to bind estrogen, thus reducing estrogenic activity. In the second case, some fraction of aromatase molecules at any given moment are unavailable to bind and convert testosterone, their binding sites being occupied with mesterolone." An excerpt from the above link.

Ok so by now you have read the links and gotten at least a basic idea, of the compounds. Using masteron is great but frankly only worth while if you are in single digit body fat, and are blowing up super lean, or cutting down for a show. It has its uses on heavy long cycles, but frankly that is where Proviron really shines. Not only will it let you squeeze every mg out of your test and other drugs that will bind with SHGB. That being said it will help in a few other areas as well, namely libido and helping you harden up at the tail end of the cycle. The big question to you is what is the goal of the cycle? Because proviron is not a substitute for masteron, or vice versa.

Proviron is safe to run for extended time, I run it 25mg for 20-+ weeks on my long cycle, you can go to 50mg but frankly @ 25mg with .5mg adex EOD on cycle your E-sides should be well under-control. But please by all means mate fire us your stats and goals for this up coming cycle and we can better advise you.
 
A bit more about Proviron:

Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron, but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, the result being a hormone that is 3 to 4 times as androgenic and is structurally incapable of forming estrogen. One would imagine then that mesterolone would be a perfect drug to enhance strength and add small but completely lean gains to the frame. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.

Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.

The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.

Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.

Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.

Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.

Stacking and Use:

Mesterolone is an oral alkylated steroid. If used primarily as an anti-aromatase drug, using it throughout a longer cycle (10-12 weeks) of injectables may elevate liver values a little bit, though much, much less than one would expect with a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid. Even though instead of inhibiting gains, mesterolone may actually contribute to gains. So that's a bit of a shame. Its not quite as toxic since its not alkylated in the same fashion, but at the 1 position, which reduces hepatic breakdown, but not like 17-alpha alkylation. The reason for the change of position I assume, is because alkylating at the 17-alpha position has been shown to reduce affinity for sex hormone binding proteins. This would in turn decrease its ability to free testosterone. Nonetheless the delivery rate is quite good. Its taken daily in 50-100 mg doses.

The best thing to stack it with is testosterone of course. Its most easily bound to SHBG and albumin, and deactivated for up to 98%. Since the DHT can compete for these structures with higher affinity it would naturally lead to a higher yield of whatever testosterone product you stacked it with. Since DHT levels are notably higher now there is also more stimulation of the androgen receptor causing more strength gains, and because of its affinity for aromatase the overall estrogen level decreases as well. This has as a result that gains are leaner, and once again the overall testosterone yield is increased as less I converted at the aromatase enzyme.

It's of course used in other stacks with products such as methandrostenolone, boldenone and nandrolone to reduce estrogenic activity and increase muscle hardness. The addition of proviron makes boldenone a dead lock for a cutting stack and for some may even make it possible to use nandrolone while cutting, although the use of Winstrol or a receptor antagonist in conjunction is wishful as well. The benefit of adding it to a nandrolone stack is that it may also help you reduce the decrease in libido suffered from nandrolone, since the latter is mostly deactivated by 5-alpha reductase, an enzyme that makes other hormones more androgenic.

Proviron is an anti-aromatase, so obviously anti-estrogens would be futile and redundant. Blood pressure medication for those prone to hypertension may be wise, as this DHT can increase the blood pressure. - by Big Cat…
 
Nice find GF I was looking for some thing a little bit technical then what I posted, but the damn ipod screen is just way to small to really delve into a paper. This is the kind of thing that sort of confuses me when you see people that are using Masteron that really have no place in using the compounds because they lack a basic requisite understanding of what they do. I mean it is not a hard thing to really look into, Google and an hour or two and you should have a fair understanding of the compounds you are looking to run, with the exception of some of the more exotic ones and even then it is the real details of those compounds tat are missing not the broad strokes.

From his talks it sounds like he can see mast working which is good, most cats that run it first time aren't ready, it is like Primo in that it should be run when you are at 9%bf and prepping for a show. Though fro some people the % at which you look peeled could be as high as 11% if your a truly massive mountain. But I digress back to the point. Basics people you really need to understand that A) No injectable can really be substituted by an oral. B) There are certain ancillary compounds that handle, things like estrogen control, Anti- Aromatization ( this includes certain suicidal Ai drugs), prolactin control, cortisol control and other various checks and balances for the hormonal side-effects, that are them selves Steroidal Compounds. "Any of numerous naturally occurring or synthetic fat-soluble organic compounds having as a basis 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings and including the sterols and bile acids, adrenal and sex hormones, certain natural drugs such as digitalis compounds, and the precursors of certain vitamins." These compounds can be suppressive, in and of them selves if taken in high dosages, or ove rlong periods of time, and can result in what is know as rebound effects with Estrogen, Estriol and other related compounds. This goes for SARMs, and the OXO compounds. While mild in nature at high dosages and over prolonged periods of use they can shut your HPTA (hypothalamic - pituitary - testicular axis).
 
Neoprimitive said:
Ok mate first a few questions: What is your current Height/weight/body fat % / training experience.
Click to expand...

5'10", 195lbs, around 11-11.5% bf. This is were I'm at. 944140_10151938072134409_397619493_n_0.jpg

My goals, not trying to bulk or cut per se. Want to put on more quality mass. Want to get thicker and fuller. In a perfect world, if I could finish the cycle, and my results are 200lb and still around 11-11.5% bf, I'll be very happy.

I understand Proviron is a very mild steroid and its main claim is it allows your body to use testosterone and other aas more efficiently. That's all I'm really looking for. Also, I'm aware there is a difference between Proviron and Masteron. I used the comparison because they are both dht's that have similar profiles with how they effect the body. I know Masteron is much more effective than Proviron, but with my goals I wondered if Proviron would still allow me to accomplish what I'm looking for.

If I did a cycle, it would be something like this ...

Test E 600-750mg/wk - 14 weeks
Proviron 50mg/wk - 14 weeks
With a pct of clomid(50mg) and nolvadex(20mg) @ 4 weeks.
 
Neoprimitive said:
I mean it is not a hard thing to really look into, Google and an hour or two and you should have a fair understanding of the compounds you are looking to run, with the exception of some of the more exotic ones and even then it is the real details of those compounds tat are missing not the broad strokes.
Click to expand...


I did google an hour or two the past few days. With some substances, there's so many different opinions on its effects and its place and purpose in the aas world. This is one of the substances the information was all over the place. I wanted to post it in here since I value this aas subforum the highest when it comes to getting clarification and advice on aas. I also did a search in bluelight and there was only 1 result for Proviron as a main subject of discussion.
 
Yeah there is not much talk of it here. When having issues with regular Google always try Google scholar. Now it is not that helpful unless you can really make use of the med/biochem or what have you jargon but it can help. I wasn't trying to sound flippant mate, or say that you failed to do your research. But rather just vet a bit, nothing personal. I am glad you posted and asked a nicely worded and though out question, trust me I appreciate the fact that you value this forum.

To your cycle you said Proviron at 50mg/week? as in total fro the week or did you mean 50mg/day?

Trying to go lean, you can achieve your goals with out a doubt. Though this will largely be diet dependent. Cut your cals by 500cal/day, rework your ratios of Protein to fat to carb. DO some thing like this:
2g Protein per pound of goal weight. 1-1.5g carb per pound of goal weight. and finally fat at 1g per 6 pounds of goal weight. You can cut the carbs to .75g per pound if you really want to try and force your body to hit the fat up with out really fidgeting to much with the Keto style diets.

Now If I was you I would do the following:
Drop the Test to 500mg/Week
add in NPP at 300-400mg/week
.5mg Adex Every other day (AI)
25mg Proviron/day

then weeks 1-4
20mg Superdol

Then weeks 9-14
30mg/day Epistane

follow the PCT in the Your First cycle Sticky.

The first 4 weeks with superdrol will give you some size, with nice lean clean bulk. The NPP will aid in size more so then a higher just test will help your joint sand is faster acting the Deca /with less bloat. The Adex and Proviron will keep your sides in check, the epi at the end will dry you out and lean you up a bit get rid of some water and give some size. The Msten will do the same but will give you a very nice strength boost, similar to Var but way less pricy.

Until you are at like 7-9% bf% mast is not for you. Stay away from Primo as well, just adding in proviron wont do much for you either. You really need to dial in the diet and training.And you will see the fat melt off. The cycle I gave you is a intermediate type cycle, but will give you very nice results.
 
AlmostFamous said:
5'10", 195lbs, around 11-11.5% bf. This is were I'm at. 944140_10151938072134409_397619493_n_0.jpg

My goals, not trying to bulk or cut per se. Want to put on more quality mass. Want to get thicker and fuller. In a perfect world, if I could finish the cycle, and my results are 200lb and still around 11-11.5% bf, I'll be very happy.

I understand Proviron is a very mild steroid and its main claim is it allows your body to use testosterone and other aas more efficiently. That's all I'm really looking for. Also, I'm aware there is a difference between Proviron and Masteron. I used the comparison because they are both dht's that have similar profiles with how they effect the body. I know Masteron is much more effective than Proviron, but with my goals I wondered if Proviron would still allow me to accomplish what I'm looking for.

If I did a cycle, it would be something like this ...

Test E 600-750mg/wk - 14 weeks
Proviron 50mg/wk - 14 weeks
With a pct of clomid(50mg) and nolvadex(20mg) @ 4 weeks.
Click to expand...

There are various views on the net regarding Proviron.. Personally I have used end of cycle into cruise to manage estrogen.. Blood tests confirmed E2 was lowered to normal levels.. On your proposed cycle of 600-750mg Test I might be inclined to up the oral dose to 25mg/day to manage E2, and free up more Test bound to SHBG...
I've found it quite effective... In the end its a personal thing on how your body reacts...
 
AlmostFamous said:
5'10", 195lbs, around 11-11.5% bf. This is were I'm at. 944140_10151938072134409_397619493_n_0.jpg

My goals, not trying to bulk or cut per se. Want to put on more quality mass. Want to get thicker and fuller. In a perfect world, if I could finish the cycle, and my results are 200lb and still around 11-11.5% bf, I'll be very happy.

I understand Proviron is a very mild steroid and its main claim is it allows your body to use testosterone and other aas more efficiently. That's all I'm really looking for. Also, I'm aware there is a difference between Proviron and Masteron. I used the comparison because they are both dht's that have similar profiles with how they effect the body. I know Masteron is much more effective than Proviron, but with my goals I wondered if Proviron would still allow me to accomplish what I'm looking for.

If I did a cycle, it would be something like this ...

Test E 600-750mg/wk - 14 weeks
Proviron 50mg/wk - 14 weeks
With a pct of clomid(50mg) and nolvadex(20mg) @ 4 weeks.
Click to expand...

Good starting point, well done. I wouldn't bother with the proviron, that's a bit like pissing in the ocean with regards to what it can do (not a lot, maybe harden you a little) and a waste of your hard earned $$. I'd only give it to a guy in the last few weeks before competing. Aside from ditching the proviron, that's a good starter cycle. If you wanted to play it very safe, you could drop the Test E to 500mg/wk as it's your first cycle. But to be honest (from experience) a lot of black guys I work with seem to be less sensitive to lower doses.
 
Genetic Freak said:
There are various views on the net regarding Proviron.. Personally I have used end of cycle into cruise to manage estrogen.. Blood tests confirmed E2 was lowered to normal levels.. On your proposed cycle of 600-750mg Test I might be inclined to up the oral dose to 25mg/day to manage E2, and free up more Test bound to SHBG...
I've found it quite effective... In the end its a personal thing on how your body reacts...
Click to expand...

Thats a solid set of advice there GF. it comes down to personal feeling in what your body needs. 50mg/day of proviron with that amount of test, is heavy but nothing to crazy it will def help with, controlling all of your side effects from Estrogen fairly well, though still the addition of adex at .5 every other day is advisable.
 
Proviron is hardly a waste man. Trust me I have been cycling for years and blasting and cruising for the last 4. I use proviron, on every long blast. It makes a marked difference in how your body responds to the testosterone, as well as how it deals with the side effects. Will it harden you up maybe depending on your body fat % it will be more obvious. What it dose like GF mentioned is bind to SHGB, there by allowing more of the test to remain in an unbound state, and cutting back on the Aromatization of the test. Ultimately, it allows you to use less test more effectively, with less side effects. And over 14 weeks, there will be a real difference as to the amount of test that will be available to your body to use in an unbound state.
 
I understand how it works. In my experience, which is donkeys years, it's really a very so-so compound for many guys. For that reason, on a first cycle, I think its just a waste of money. Have another 250mg of Test if you're worried about wastage due to SHBG binding, but in the grand scheme of things I really don't think it's something that should be of any concern on a first cycle.
 
Each his own, but your are most likely right on a first cycle. For me, It just made a rather large impact, so I like to recommend it, happens when you are a fan of a certain compound lol. BTW welcome to SD, I like your style man, well though out, and you stick to your position and defend well, I hope you become a regular and stick around.
 
A proviron fan are we? haha. Ok, I admit some guys do love it. But yeah, I was just generally thinking that on the first few cycles guys often get a bit too obsessed with relatively minor details and over-complicate things. Plus, if you use it from the outset, you'll never really know if it's helping or not. In the case of this dude, he probably would notice the cosmetic effect of proviron as he's lean and vascular. Whether it will boost actual gains (which should be phenomenal on a first cycle with a good diet anyway) is questionable, but as you say open to personal choice.

And thanks for the welcome! :)
 
No worries brother. It is nice to see some one that has a nice base of knowledge. You will fit in here nicely; my self and the two other mods really know their shit, Guido ( he is killer at his research as well man looks into every thing) is up on a lot of the new cutting edge stuff, Genetic Freak, really knows his shit too, years of experience, and has a great handle on all of the science, all of us really have a handle on the science, and medical end. I am sort of the middle of the road guy, I approach the PED thing from the science, and medical sides, Im not a bodybuilder but I am active in a few sports, as well as some martial arts, and I am a Private Military Contractor so I shoot for an all around approach of strength/agility. speed. We have a few really good regulars that keep conversation up, and we are trying to really grow this section into what it really should be a great section for all of us in the culture can come and compare notes, training styles, and compare and contrast our cycles. We have some bodybuilders, some athletes, so regular cats just getting ripped. It is a nice mix.

The guys here are good, we bust balls but hey its what guys do. Fell free to contribute, to any discussion, or prompt a few your self. You might want to intro yourself, stats, experience in a lil thread. I am trying to encourage this with new guys.
 
Thanks for that mate. Yeah, I must admit I had no idea this forum had a steroid section until today, I'm sure it will get busier with a bit more activity. I'll make an intro if it helps.

And sorry to the OP for going off his topic a bit here! Hopefully my POV was helpful to the mix! ;)
 
Yeah no worries we go off topic a bit, sometimes seriously off topic lol. and the thread has been sort of dead fro a bit any way, so. Usually by the time me, and GF and cats like Animal Mother and Serotonin begin chiming in with lists of medical studies or protocols, the thread is usually closed. New eyes are always needed mate.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. Started the cycle the other day and settled on 600mg/week of Test E and 75mg/day Proviron. Going to run it 14 weeks.

This isn't my first cycle. This will be my 3rd. I had a major injury 1 year ago. Broken wrist and forearm. Major atrophy in my left arm, and loss alot of overall muscle/mass. While I do have experience with other substances, I want to take it easy on this cycle with a straight forward test cycle, and proviron had been of interest with me for awhile so I thought this would be a good opportunity to give it a try.
 
Give it a shot brother, I know how recovering from a serious injury can be shit gets vicious. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
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