The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine Thread - Part 13: Don't you know? MXE comes from MXE-co

[psood0nym]

I'm neither normal or nontolerant. I get quite a lot of positive from daily MXE use. I do take breaks, but I also enjoy taking it on a regular basis as well. We are all different and what I get out of it may not be what you get from it. I respect your opinion and you've said and offered a lot of great information. However I can't relate to all of your experiences and neither can you from mine.

I will say that I DO NOT recommend somebody follow my lead and live the life I do. But I am doing just fine right now.

The incident with the blood was when I took a long break and took too large of a dose. Currently my tolerance allows me to enjoy the amount of MXE I consume. Last night it was part of my workout routine and I had a blast, sweated out most of it, took a nice shower, calmed down and slept without interuption for the first time in over a year. I usually wake up a few times during the night. I got a solid 7 hours of sleep last night and felt great when I woke up.

Your psychological tolerance to MXE has no bearing on how much your bladder, liver, and kidneys can sustain without incurring injury, though. You're not different in that respect, so the fact that you're doing fine subjectively at the moment is a meaningless consideration in a very critical sense. What you're doing is rationalizing abuse. Sorry, but there's no getting around the limits of your organs.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

Your psychological tolerance to MXE has no bearing on how much your bladder, liver, and kidneys can sustain without incurring injury, though. You're not different in that respect, so the fact that you're doing fine subjectively at the moment is a meaningless consideration in a very critical sense. What you're doing is rationalizing abuse. Sorry, but there's no getting around the limits of your organs.

What proof is out there about the physical damage you think I'm causing myself? As long as I stay very hydrated I never have issues with my bladder. There have been times I will forget to keep drinking water and will have to really try to make my system move and take a piss. So I don't disagree there is possible physical damage I can cause myself. But I also know "M" designed it not to have the bladder issues Ketamine causes. I'm not trying to rationalize my abuse. I'm a drug addict with a very addictive personality and have done more chemicals in my life than I can count. However MXE truly does special things for me and I find it very medicinal. It's changed my life for the better.

 

[Asante]

What proof is out there about the physical damage you think I'm causing myself?

Well these types of drugs are hard on the liver, the kidneys and the bladder. It would further the knowledge about this drug if you, after a week or two of particularly heavy use, went to the doctor and had your blood tested with a broad spectrum diagnostic blood test. Would your liver enzymes be elevated? Would your kidneys still be doing a good job? Mineral balance? Blood Lipids? Creatinine? Since you are toxifying yourself with extreme doses of this alkaloid those results would be welcome. Also let him test your blood oxygen saturation. Thats a 1 minute thing, he puts a clip on your finger and he knows.
DO THIS, after a heavy week or two go to a physician for a general checkup. They want to do one of those a year anyway to any patient, so why not then?
If you get a wide spectrum bloodtest and come out fully healthy then yes, I would be impressed. I'd expect your liver enzymes to be elevated and your kidney function impaired and/or your electrolytes out of whack. You might even have a degree of rhabdomyolysis going on, which is a major reason of people needing kidney transplants in its most severe form. Arylcyclohexylamines may bring that on, even with normal doses.

I also know "M" designed it not to have the bladder issues Ketamine causes.

With the greatest, utmost respect to the creator, he also predicted significant opioid effects to MXE that did not materialize. Just because he designed it that way doesnt mean it actually works that way.

I have had weeks of bladder pain after using a few grams in a few weeks, and actually peed some droplets of blood. Just saying, it might not be as free of bladder effects as the designer intended.

However MXE truly does special things for me and I find it very medicinal. It's changed my life for the better.

It has for me too, but your intensity of usage worries me.

What proof is out there

Please have that physical & blood test done after 2 weeks of heavy use and post the results here. You would actually do the community and the body of knowledge about MXE a big favor, as well as give you insight in your particular situation. You can tell the doctor you feel a bit off for days now. Having used 300-500mg a day in those days makes that not particularly untrue

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

Well these types of drugs are hard on the liver, the kidneys and the bladder. It would further the knowledge about this drug if you, after a week or two of particularly heavy use, went to the doctor and had your blood tested with a broad spectrum diagnostic blood test. Would your liver enzymes be elevated? Would your kidneys still be doing a good job? Mineral balance? Blood Lipids? Creatinine? Since you are toxifying yourself with extreme doses of this alkaloid those results would be welcome. Also let him test your blood oxygen saturation. Thats a 1 minute thing, he puts a clip on your finger and he knows.
DO THIS, after a heavy week or two go to a physician for a general checkup. They want to do one of those a year anyway to any patient, so why not then?
If you get a wide spectrum bloodtest and come out fully healthy then yes, I would be impressed. I'd expect your liver enzymes to be elevated and your kidney function impaired and/or your electrolytes out of whack. You might even have a degree of rhabdomyolysis going on, which is a major reason of people needing kidney transplants in its most severe form. Arylcyclohexylamines may bring that on, even with normal doses.



With the greatest, utmost respect to the creator, he also predicted significant opioid effects to MXE that did not materialize. Just because he designed it that way doesnt mean it actually works that way.

I have had weeks of bladder pain after using a few grams in a few weeks, and actually peed some droplets of blood. Just saying, it might not be as free of bladder effects as the designer intended.



It has for me too, but your intensity of usage worries me.



Please have that physical & blood test done after 2 weeks of heavy use and post the results here. You would actually do the community and the body of knowledge about MXE a big favor, as well as give you insight in your particular situation. You can tell the doctor you feel a bit off for days now. Having used 300-500mg a day in those days makes that not particularly untrue

Thanks for the reply. Good timing as I have a doctor's visit this Friday and planned on asking him to take blood. He usually takes blood from me 3-4 times a year. He's a very very thorough doctor. Probably the best I've ever had in my life and he truly cares about each patient as if you were his family. I used to vend MXE so I'm used to have 100's of grams available to me anytime I want. In the past I have gone to the doctor on MXE and my blood pressure was very good he said. All the tests a typical physical that are done came back with very good "normal" ratings. The results of the blood work in the past have shown I have a very healthy bladder, kidneys and liver. He said the only issues he had some concern about was low vitamin D and magnesium. He prescribed me large 7 day doses of vitamin D. I've since started to take vitamins on a regular basis and try to be as active as I can. For some reason, similar to opiates MXE will get me in the mood to clean the house. So I do feel I get some opioid effects the designer intended. Very similar to OXY actually. My current stash will allow me to continue to take it daily and I will be sure this Friday to ask for blood work even if I don't like needles. I have no issues being honest and sharing the results with the community.

I did have some what felt like bladder pain last year, but after running some tests it was found to be a digestive issue and after awhile it went away. It was pretty painful. But I never had bloody urine. The only urinary issues were when I didn't drink enough water. I needed to drink a ton and take a hot shower to get the pipes working. I've noticed MXE increases my thirst for H20 so I will agree with you it must have some effect on the bladder. But not in the way of urinary tract infections like heavy, long term Ketamine use.

The other thing I remember is sore muscles. The feeling as if I had worked out very hard for hours the night before when all I did was sit around watch some TV and smoke weed. Currently I've started a new workout routine and any muscle pain I feel today is from last nights 90min workout session. Heavy cardio. I turn on a live concert (Phish) for example and dance in my house for a full set as if I was at the concert itself. That was a very rewarding time both on and off MXE.

I'll have him take some urine as well so you can hear about those results. I'm honest with him about my drug use and have no issues admitting what I take that isn't prescribed.

Asante, I want to thank you for being so concerned about me and what I'm doing or may be doing to my body. You seem very wise and I enjoy reading your posts on this forum, especially this thread since MXE is a big part of my life.

 

[closeyoureyes]

On the come up I urinated like 3 times and for all the experience I wanted to pee. In 3 hours I urinated like 5 times. I also pee a lot sometimes but it's only like 4th time when I do MXE and I never exceeded 30mg dosage. Is it my brain telling me to pee like in a subliminal way or I should be worried about my bladder?? Anyways I'm pretty paranoid person, was thinking I damaged my heart after summer full or ravin on stimulants turns out it was anxiety and some kind of spine nerve thing which was eliminated by excersising... Sorry if what I wrote here doesn't make sense, I;m still on mexxxy, the horse mind as I call it

 

[Bone14]

You don't tell us about the frequency on your use?

MXE can work pretty diuretic.

 

[psood0nym]

What proof is out there about the physical damage you think I'm causing myself? As long as I stay very hydrated I never have issues with my bladder. There have been times I will forget to keep drinking water and will have to really try to make my system move and take a piss. So I don't disagree there is possible physical damage I can cause myself. But I also know "M" designed it not to have the bladder issues Ketamine causes. I'm not trying to rationalize my abuse. I'm a drug addict with a very addictive personality and have done more chemicals in my life than I can count. However MXE truly does special things for me and I find it very medicinal. It's changed my life for the better.

Absence of evidence of risk (that is, what you've reported about your subjective experience) does not logically confirm that there is evidence of absence of risk. There was a thread by EyesWideOpen reporting that his renal dysfunction began after heavy MXE abuse. Another thread by phatass that I can no longer find reported a diagnosis of acute kidney failure after extreme MXE abuse. The rational aspect of MXE's "rational drug design" is simply that it is more potent than ketamine. On the assumption that MXE and ketamine are both approximately equally damaging to the same organs, it's rational that a more potent compound would cause less damage since less is taken into the body. But that's it. Such design is notable because it rarely plays into the synthesis of recreational designer drugs, and that's why it gets emphasized, but it doesn't mean much more than that.

We don't really know the full story about exactly how these drugs damage organs, just that users who chronically abuse them heavily have shown signs of damage. It's impossible to design a novel molecule and predict from its structure exactly what damage it will do to the body (at least currently). It's entirely possible that MXE is more damaging than ketamine because of some totally unanticipated mystery factor that trumps any health advantage conferred by its lower dosage. That's just the nature of unresearched chemicals. So there is no proof, just much more evidence that MXE is hard on these organs in high doses than that it's not.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

I plan to bring the wiki page on MXE with printed out for my doctor to read. Are there any other questions you want me to ask of him? He is very polite and understanding and will do as I ask.

So far I plan to have blood taken, piss taken and have my usual physical. Let me know anything else. I'm well aware that with RC's we (I) am the guinea pig. I can be VERY honest with this doctor.

 

[vortech]

Dude, please adibe by recommended MXE dosing and tolerance break regulations! We're just lookin out for ya, man 500mg is extreme high range! Funny y'all mention it, I have bloodwork on order, made me think to wait until next week to get it. I'm starting a week or so cycle tomorrow after a 2 week break.

 

[vortech]

The results of the blood work in the past have shown I have a very healthy bladder, kidneys and liver. He said the only issues he had some concern about was low vitamin D and magnesium. He prescribed me large 7 day doses of vitamin D.

My last work showed me as low in Vitamin D as well and got a script for a megadose once a week. We both either don't get enough sunlight, or there is a potential connection in the way MXE can deplete D levels or inhibit absorption.

People here mostly agree it is a good idea to take magnesium if you take MXE with any regularity.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Dude.....I don't understand what you think the difference of MXE and ketamine are in terms of damge to the bladder, the amount of MXE you do puts you on par with a ketamine abuser...you have the same amount of chemical going through your body as they do pretty much. MXE is only said to be easier on the urinary tract bc it requires less to reach the same high that ketamine would, therefore less chemical is going through your body. There is nothing about the chemical structure of mxe vs ketamine that makes it more safe

 

[Asante]

As to bladder toxicity.. As I see it the culprit is a dehydrogenized ketamine metabolite, which is a substituted cyclohexenone. Alpha-unsaturated ketones and aldehydes are notorious for being toxic alkylating irritants, examples that come to mind are Acrolein, Methyl Vinyl Ketone and of course Cyclohexenone itself. These are severe irritants not unlike tear gas that are toxic. With ketamine these metabolites, particularly dehydronorketamine, all go through the bladder and on the bladder exert concentrated irritant action.

Thing is. dehydronormethoxetamine likely is just as irritant, because the cyclohexenone ring is present, and thus is likely just as toxic to the bladder. A difference is that Ketamine rapidly gives high concentrations while Methoxetamine releases its metabolites to urine over a longer time span, as a longacting drug. In low doses that likely means MXE is less harmful to the bladder, but if you chronically take high doses your bladder will be constantly doused in irritant urine and that will take its toll over time, that may mean that in high doses MXE might even be worse as K.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

Tomorrow is my doctor's visit and I will report back. I plan on taking a break. I'm well aware I shouldn't make this part of my lifestyle. I will report back with the results of all the tests I have done. I thank you all for your concern. Godspeed

 

[Confield]

My last work showed me as low in Vitamin D as well and got a script for a megadose once a week. We both either don't get enough sunlight, or there is a potential connection in the way MXE can deplete D levels or inhibit absorption.

People here mostly agree it is a good idea to take magnesium if you take MXE with any regularity.

Just so happened, I bought some Vitamin D and magnesium citrate supplements today from the drug store

 

[Asante]

Taking a break after such intensive use is highly recommened, all this is concern for your wellbeing, not us being jerks for the heck of it.

I shouldn't make this part of my lifestyle.

If there were no consequences and no tolerance I would honest to God buy a kilo and be a human by day and a disembodied entity soaring through the Hole by night.

But there are consequences, your physical and mental health would suffer, your social life would implode and worse still you'd need ever more until no dose short of an overdose will do it for you.

We have to respect the drug and our own limitations, if we want to keep this a thing we enjoy for years to come.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

Taking a break after such intensive use is highly recommened, all this is concern for your wellbeing, not us being jerks for the heck of it.



If there were no consequences and no tolerance I would honest to God buy a kilo and be a human by day and a disembodied entity soaring through the Hole by night.

But there are consequences, your physical and mental health would suffer, your social life would implode and worse still you'd need ever more until no dose short of an overdose will do it for you.

We have to respect the drug and our own limitations, if we want to keep this a thing we enjoy for years to come.

Well said Asante. I will report back next week with the results of my tests. And a break of usage IS and WILL happen. I never thought you were being a jerk being concerned BTW. It's very comforting knowing that you care. . I hope the holiday season and NYE treats you well.

 

[vortech]

We have to respect the drug and our own limitations, if we want to keep this a thing we enjoy for years to come.

Om Shakti

I could write a whole chapter of the 'MXE User Guidebook' with the subject of balancing use with our own limitations as we pace ourselves. Speaking of I still want to connect with veteran 'mexaholics' who may be interested in contributing to such a 'guidebook' PM me!

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ I consider myself somewhat a veteran 'mexaholic', but I question whether I could really contribute anything of value to a guidebook. I don't have any objective data on MXE; I just got high as hell on a regular basis, and subjectively enjoyed it. What sort of information are you looking for?


I'm really interested in how this whole MXE toxicity issue develops. Like Asante said, toxic side effects are really the only thing that keeps me from using MXE on a daily basis. I'm also a bit surprised, considering MXE's popularity, that reports of worrisome negative symptoms are so rare, considering how it affected me with relatively lightweight usage.

 

[amanitadine]

Some good posts above.....subjectively MXE feels a lot harder on the old renal system and bladder than does ketamine. Extreme diuretic. I also seem to be quite resilient to these effects though, as I went through a period of several years of using absurd amounts of ketamine and never had any bladder or renal issues. But methoxetamine sure feels harder on me! I dont use it much anymore.....all my years of NMDAR bashing have rendered such drugs virtually useless. Virtually

FnB, for all his brilliance, and a dear friend, was off on the MOR affinity aspect of MXE. Theoretically it would undergo 3 demethylation to 3-OH MXE and provide opioid effects like 3-OH PCP but apparently this isn't the case. And we still don't even know exactly what effects 3-OH PCP has on the MOR...just some binding data. In vitro studies and in vivo (I know, I know, scores of anecdotes make data not) experiences make it obvious MXE has no affinity for the MOR. If you "feel" the opioid effects lucky you! The power of suggestion is quite powerful, especially with mind bending drugs! And the whole idea of it being "designed" to have less of an effect on the bladder" was as Psood stated....potency. It is still going to be N- dealkylated and produce a similar metabolite to ketamine. So, 500 mg, 100 mg.....the risk is still there.

Be safe.

 

[ThaDudeAbides]

^^^ If you stay hydrated and drink plenty of water you won't get those symptoms IMO. It's when you get holed out and dehydrated you get yourself in trouble. I've done this before and had to spend 2hours sitting on the toilet trying to piss. If I drink a good bit of water right as I take my dose waiting for the comeup and while I trip I don't have those issues. Another tip is exercise. I find if I do a workout before I call it quits I end up sweating it and other toxins out. I then make sure to rehydrate and usually have a good sleep without interuption.

So I went to the Dr today, gave him the wiki page and explained my long term used and my binges. He is having a full spectrum blood test done on my blood and checking the urine I left behind with him. He will call me this weekend with the results and I will even try to have him fax me the results and will share you folks the feedback and his opinion after he reads the wiki page.

Vortex, feel free to take any of my posts and use them for your guide. I think I can provide good info based on my reports and you can ask me any question about my use. I have been using MXE ever since it hit the scene and have had some very interesting experiences I can share.

Also can anyone give their opinion of Oxy/MXE combo? I've done it before but am curious as I just piked up some OXY.