When will my MDMA Hangover end?

[hungryjack]

hey guys,

for the third time in my life i had a mdma pill 5 weeks ago and i still feel bad. it was the first time that i felt the comedown and i was very shocked and afraid of myself. for round about a week i had an optical disturbance like i was a bit drunk and had a massive thinking barrier. since that day i still dont feel normal. i got a light thinking barrier with some concentration problems and i forget sometimes words which is maybee caused by my anxiety. i feel like i lost a lot of self confidence, im nervous and got a headache everyday.
went already to 2 doctors. the first one gave me St Johns Wart and the second one recommends that i should take 5htp pills. before the comedown started i felt generally very good. any ideas? should i take the 5htp or wait and hope that i will feel better soon?


looking forward to positive answers

 

[JWills20]

hey guys,

for the third time in my life i had a mdma pill 5 weeks ago and i still feel bad. it was the first time that i felt the comedown and i was very shocked and afraid of myself. for round about a week i had an optical disturbance like i was a bit drunk and had a massive thinking barrier. since that day i still dont feel normal. i got a light thinking barrier with some concentration problems and i forget sometimes words which is maybee caused by my anxiety. i feel like i lost a lot of self confidence, im nervous and got a headache everyday.
went already to 2 doctors. the first one gave me amber and the second one recommends that i should take 5htp pills. before the comedown started i felt generally very good. any ideas? should i take the 5htp or wait and hope that i will feel better soon?


looking forward to positive answers

Hi Hungryjack, it sounds like you've been rather unfortunate with ecstasy. Remember that if you're taking a pill labelled as 'ecstasy', you don't actually know what's in it unless you test it. Testing pills is common round here to stay safe. If you did not test it, then it's hard to provide advice as to how to recover as we have no idea what you actually took.

I agree that you should start taking 5-HTP. This is because 5-HTP helps the brain to make serotonin. MDMA depletes serotonin. So if you did take MDMA and your problems are because of serotonin, 5-HTP could well help. As for amber - i've no idea.

I'd also recommend exercise. There is lots of growing support toward exercise as a potential cure for depression/anxiety and also for improving cognition. Considering that you feel like your memory (cognition) is worse & you're anxious, exercise could definitely help you recover. I would recommend running, but whatever you're most comfortable with is fine.

I'd also suggest supplementing multivitamins. If your problem is because of enzymes/genes, then multivitamins may help to offset the problem.

Basically, live a healthy lifestyle: exercise daily, eat heathily, supplement 5-HTP & multivitamins. With some luck that will provide you the speediest recovery.

Welcome to Bluelight!

 

[hungryjack]

thank you so much for this great reply! me and two friends took each a half of the purple lamborghini pill. they felt fine after 2 days.

 

[JWills20]

thank you so much for this great reply! me and two friends took each a half of the purple lamborghini pill. they felt fine after 2 days.

No worries - feel free to read around the forum and make yourself at home! However, it's very important that you don't spend all your time reading this forum. Get out there - running, eating healthily, supplementing 5-HTP/vitamins and update us as to how you feel over the next few weeks.

 

[ShytK]

I am on my 3rd month of comedown and feeling a lot alot better. I had the head pressure thing last for 2 months. It is still there but only a few seconds a day so it is like the least of my problems now and I would be happ yenough even if it were like that for life. However, the last 2 months the head pressure wasn't as fun.

It gets better and a lot of my symtoms have decreased a lot by now.

I wouldn't recommend 5HTP even though many recommend it here. It seems to work for many that have short term (normal) comedowns. But if you are past 4-5 weeks, if I were you I'd stop taking it. Also, I'd stop taking any supplements. When I discontinued all supplements (with exception of a multi vitamin, Vitamin C, Omega 3/6/9, and lastly a Magnesium right before bed time), I started to get a lot better. And that happened about 2-3 weeks ago. This has been my best recovering weeks (other than first two weeks which were absolute hell).

THat's just my take on it. This is with no scientific facts. But I think many will agree here that after weeks or months of 5HTP usage it'd probably be best to lay it off for a while and let your body do the healing naturally.

Fact is no one really knows why these long term comedowns happen or what even happens in your brain/body that causes it. There is NO valid explanation out there. None, zilch, nada. So when people tell you to take 5HTP it's just based on either their personal experience or just repeating what others have been saying..

 

[hungryjack]

which symtoms did you have? are they all nearly gone and do you feel pretty much normal ?

 

[edgeofsanity]

a 3 month comedown? holy shit

 

[angeleyes]

Based on experience @ShytK, I can't recommend 5-HTP enough, you'll be feeling better from day 1 with definitely noticeable repair by day 7, try it out and get back to me I can guarantee you won't regret it.

Having said that we must realize this is month 3 not the day after, but I can assure both of you it will help.

 

[ShytK]

I have used it for the first 4 weeks or so. Haven't noticed any difference other than better sleep when using it before bed time.

To hungryjack: My symptoms included blurry vision, brain shivering feeling, extreme fatigue, bad sleep/waking up every hour, head pressures, brain fog, noise sensitivity that increased during the evening/night, and ofcourse anxiety at the very beginning when I didn't know what was happening with me. However, no depression as many have reported.

Having said that what is left now is slight brain fog (sometimes there sometimes not) and noise sensitivity when I get tired. The fatigue and sleep is improving.

The blurry vision / retardedness /brain shivers was the first thing that went away. The head pressures second. The rest seems like it's slowly improving..

 

[its.euphoric]

The drug itself is fairly nontoxic, but that's not where the damaging effects of drugs start from.
It's the stress. A lot of people will take drugs be it mdma, lsd, amphetamines, even weed, and have a "bad trip", or some will even have a very good time, While the drug itself is relatively non toxic that is not what causes all the problems, drugs like MDMA, especially in a rave setting, very little food or drink, dancing past the point of normal exhaustion is EXTREMELY stressful on the body. People take the drugs and then think "it must have caused brain damage and that's what's causing my problems" but that's not really the case.

It's the high stress that is caused to the body. This throws the body out of homeostasis. When your body and your stress response system, your hpa axis, are driven too far from resting point it becomes very hard for your body to return to normal. Not only this but once it's driven too far out of balance it becomes a negative cycle because your body becomes even more sensitive to stress. Most people's stress responses are robust and can recover from it but then there are many others that aren't. The same thing can, and I've seen it happen with other types of highly stressful situations. A person has a traumatic experience, rape, loss of loved one, victim in war etc..

If you look up HPA axis dysfunction you'll find lots of information on it.
Hpa axis dysfuntion you will feel very apathetic, usually hyper-vigilant but at the same time very tired. Most have anxiety and derealization and depression. Your HPA axis is the center for your emotional well being and happiness, every time you are excited or experience a positive feeling or emotion, your hpa axis is activated. When this is thrown out of balance the world can seem very black and white and you'll feel almost a detached feeling to the world around you.
There's also some speculation of amygdala trauma, but I won't go into that.

Pretty much to get your body's stress response back to normal, you need to cut out all forms of stress and keep stress to a minimum. Try your very best to get up and go to sleep the same time every day, get a good amount of exercise, don't overdue yourself. Avoid stressful situations or scary situations, Eat well, balanced meals. Meals should be:
1) Eat before 10:00 a.m.
2) Eat frequent, small meals: 6-8 am (breakfast), 12 noon (lunch), Snacks - 10am, 3pm and Bedtime
3) Eat 30-40% whole grains, 30-40% Vegetables (50% should be raw), 10-15% Beans, seeds & nuts, 10-20% animal foods, 5-10% fruits
Of course avoid all drugs, unless you can't sleep and need to take something for sleep.
Also.. try to get a good magnesium supplement, preferably citrate, NEVER oxide. As well as a high quality omega 3, like krill oil.
I would also avoid foods like milk and gluten. Other things that could help are low dose hydrocortisone, or licorice.

If you follow these things for a few weeks and I KNOW you will feel better. It may take some time to feel 100% better, but I know that you will feel a great deal better.

 

[J_has_L]

I kinda feel like after i had the experience of coming down on a roll i kinda had a higher understanding of sadness and depression altogether. Ocassionally i feel a little bite of those same feelings throughout the day. I guess i would prolly say its a feeling of anxiety. Thats why i manage myself closely on molly and make sure not to do to much. Its a lot of fun to roll, but it never works out well to do to much. And lets face it..... some kids are doing tons of that shit. Its good not to let yourself fall into that category.

 

[ShytK]

The drug itself is fairly nontoxic, but that's not where the damaging effects of drugs start from.
It's the stress. A lot of people will take drugs be it mdma, lsd, amphetamines, even weed, and have a "bad trip", or some will even have a very good time, While the drug itself is relatively non toxic that is not what causes all the problems, drugs like MDMA, especially in a rave setting, very little food or drink, dancing past the point of normal exhaustion is EXTREMELY stressful on the body. People take the drugs and then think "it must have caused brain damage and that's what's causing my problems" but that's not really the case.

It's the high stress that is caused to the body. This throws the body out of homeostasis. When your body and your stress response system, your hpa axis, are driven too far from resting point it becomes very hard for your body to return to normal. Not only this but once it's driven too far out of balance it becomes a negative cycle because your body becomes even more sensitive to stress. Most people's stress responses are robust and can recover from it but then there are many others that aren't. The same thing can, and I've seen it happen with other types of highly stressful situations. A person has a traumatic experience, rape, loss of loved one, victim in war etc..

If you look up HPA axis dysfunction you'll find lots of information on it.
Hpa axis dysfuntion you will feel very apathetic, usually hyper-vigilant but at the same time very tired. Most have anxiety and derealization and depression. Your HPA axis is the center for your emotional well being and happiness, every time you are excited or experience a positive feeling or emotion, your hpa axis is activated. When this is thrown out of balance the world can seem very black and white and you'll feel almost a detached feeling to the world around you.
There's also some speculation of amygdala trauma, but I won't go into that.

Pretty much to get your body's stress response back to normal, you need to cut out all forms of stress and keep stress to a minimum. Try your very best to get up and go to sleep the same time every day, get a good amount of exercise, don't overdue yourself. Avoid stressful situations or scary situations, Eat well, balanced meals. Meals should be:
1) Eat before 10:00 a.m.
2) Eat frequent, small meals: 6-8 am (breakfast), 12 noon (lunch), Snacks - 10am, 3pm and Bedtime
3) Eat 30-40% whole grains, 30-40% Vegetables (50% should be raw), 10-15% Beans, seeds & nuts, 10-20% animal foods, 5-10% fruits
Of course avoid all drugs, unless you can't sleep and need to take something for sleep.
Also.. try to get a good magnesium supplement, preferably citrate, NEVER oxide. As well as a high quality omega 3, like krill oil.
I would also avoid foods like milk and gluten. Other things that could help are low dose hydrocortisone, or licorice.

If you follow these things for a few weeks and I KNOW you will feel better. It may take some time to feel 100% better, but I know that you will feel a great deal better.

Just wondering why citrate and not oxide?

Your theory sounds in line. Had a cortisol test and was very low. Lab actually said my HPA axis was off balance. And I did have a bad trip.

Anyway don't want to hijack the OP's thread but your theory probably is correct. It's just that it's strange that it takes so long to get back to normality of things. This is not like physical exertion type of stress that's for sure.

Also alot of people say exercise. When I exercise I feel BEAT in a bad way. Brain fog also increases after exercise. I don't think exercise is the right thing to do. If you Google HPA axis off balance which is linked to chronic fatigue, it says nothing more than very mild exercising. Intense exercise = more stress on the body and mind.

 

[its.euphoric]

Just wondering why citrate and not oxide?

Your theory sounds in line. Had a cortisol test and was very low. Lab actually said my HPA axis was off balance. And I did have a bad trip.

Anyway don't want to hijack the OP's thread but your theory probably is correct. It's just that it's strange that it takes so long to get back to normality of things. This is not like physical exertion type of stress that's for sure.

Also alot of people say exercise. When I exercise I feel BEAT in a bad way. Brain fog also increases after exercise. I don't think exercise is the right thing to do. If you Google HPA axis off balance which is linked to chronic fatigue, it says nothing more than very mild exercising. Intense exercise = more stress on the body and mind.

Because oxide is extremely low bio-availability, you'd be better off just eating magnesium rich foods. I say get a good amount of exercise, but I also say don't overdue yourself. So don't do it to the point that you feel exhausted, but just an amount where you feel slightly tired.

Yes Hpa hypofunction is very common in CFS, and chronic fatigue... period.

Why do I think that it takes so long to recover? Well, the way I see it is, the body was pushed way past it's normal homeostasis, this stressful response downregulates the hpa axis. So your body is going to overreact to every little thing. By reducing stress as much as possible this helps the receptors to become re-sensitized again.

There was this article I found about correcting the hpa axis. There have been studies with a drug called mifepristone, on those with PTSD and have positive results. Mifepristone reduces cortisol. This article makes sense of how reducing cortisol temporarily, would help upregulate the body's stress response.

Recalibrating 'fight or flight'
A Canadian/U.S. research team has reported a novel approach to stimulating recovery from chronic stress disorders. Details of the therapeutic model, which exploits the natural dynamics of the body's "fight or flight" system, are published January 23 in the open-access journalPLoS Computational Biology. In contrast to conventional time-invariant therapy, the researchers propose a well-directed therapeutic push delivered according to an optimal treatment schedule. The hypothalamic, pituitary, adrenal (HPA) axis constitutes one of the body's major control systems, serving to maintain body homeostasis with hormone feedback regulatory loops. If the HPA axis is driven very far from its natural homeostatic rest point, it may be unable to fully recover the healthy physiologic state. Under such conditions, the HPA axis dysfunction may become chronic. HPA axis dysfunction has been characterized in disorders including Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), depression, post- traumatic stress disorder and Alzheimer disease.

The research team, used a relatively simple mathematical description of the HPA axis to show how the complex dynamical behavior of this system could accommodate multiple stable resting states; some corresponding to chronic loss of function characterized by low cortisol, a hormone that modulates immune function. A robust treatment strategy was designed to take advantage of the body's existing homeostatic mechanism, using a short-duration intervention to assist the HPA axis in re-asserting homeostasis about a healthy equilibrium. Akin to pulling back a slingshot, temporarily reducing the bioavailability of cortisol pharmacologically causes the HPA axis to overcompensate and launch itself back into a correct regulatory regime.

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/23/recalibrating.fight.or.flight

 

[ShytK]

One comment to that article has been:

If you have neuroinflammation and neurotoxic damage and it is causing HPA axis dysfunction then won't it continue until the underlying cause is treated? It looks like this study only addresses one subgroup of CFS patients-the ones who are being studied by the CDC who have something related to post-traumatic stress disorder.

Now I don't know if I'm fully satisfied with the whole HPA axis theory to be honest..

Neuroinflammation/neurotoxicity sounds a bit more like it.

 

[hungryjack]

the hpa axis theory makes somehow sense for me because my doctor told me that i should stay away from partying or anything that causes stress and keep the level to a minimum.
I found out that the more i exercise and sweat, the better i feel. It decreaes brain fog, headache and stress a lot for the day.
But the most annoying thing is that when im socialising and getting on a higher level of energy, my head feels so burned out after a few hours.

I started to take l tryptophan, magnesium, St Johns Wart, vitamin b and crill oil in relation to a healthy meal plan. I think this is everything i can do so far...

 

[ShytK]

Exercising made me feel better first few weeks as well. Not anymore.

Also, anything that excites me causes me to get a small shivery / crawling sensation on my head in one area that lasts a few seconds. Whether this be electronic music, porn, fantasizing, whatever. I wonder if that is something to avoid or not.

Do you get this by any chance?

Btw, I took the Magnesium advice. Got Magnesium Citrate and threw out the Magnesium Oxide. Took it twice so far and noticed a huge difference in the effects. After taking Magnesium Oxide I noticed nothing, and with Magnesium Citrate I feel a very calm/relaxed feeling from deep within as if someone is massaging nerves in my spine or something. Quite a good feeling thus far. Thanks for the tip euphoric.

 

[ShytK]

PS
Please keep us posted on your recovery!

 

[Allein]

Exercising made me feel better first few weeks as well. Not anymore.

Also, anything that excites me causes me to get a small shivery / crawling sensation on my head in one area that lasts a few seconds. Whether this be electronic music, porn, fantasizing, whatever. I wonder if that is something to avoid or not.

Do you get this by any chance?

Btw, I took the Magnesium advice. Got Magnesium Citrate and threw out the Magnesium Oxide. Took it twice so far and noticed a huge difference in the effects. After taking Magnesium Oxide I noticed nothing, and with Magnesium Citrate I feel a very calm/relaxed feeling from deep within as if someone is massaging nerves in my spine or something. Quite a good feeling thus far. Thanks for the tip euphoric.

This all sounds like mild anxiety, it's possible the MD experience triggered it but more likely it just exposed an existing issue young had not been consciously aware of.

If it continues you need to go see a doctor as anxiety can get worse and lead to depression and other problems, Im sure this will pass I a short time, try not to worry about it, I'd watch lots more porn BYW, its good for he soul,

 

[ShytK]

This all sounds like mild anxiety, it's possible the MD experience triggered it but more likely it just exposed an existing issue young had not been consciously aware of.

If it continues you need to go see a doctor as anxiety can get worse and lead to depression and other problems, Im sure this will pass I a short time, try not to worry about it, I'd watch lots more porn BYW, its good for he soul,

It is much better now than it used to be. It's only sometimes. When I listen to a 1 hour set maybe happens 3-4 times throughout the set. In the first week it would go on basically through entire 1 hour and the crawling sensation was a bit more intense.

Never experienced depression in my life really. Not the depressive type even on this come down had no depression. But the fatigue just sucks. All friends saying I am grandpa and not going to parties even if I explain to them 100s of times what happened to me they think I'm making it up.

I used to always enjoy fast paced action packed stuff in life. Used to drink red bulls, pepsi, used do a lot of extreme sports. So now having to be the opposite really does increase my anxiety sometimes.

Let's hope all of us that are affected make a full recovery in due time.

 

[Alaska457]

When I had my bad comedown, it lasted probably 2 months. It was getting better REALLY slow, so I got prescribed depression meds and my anxiety and shit was gone that day. Don't drink or do drugs while you're on the comedown or else you'll be fucked for days after. You can get off them a couple months after you get on them, I didn't have any bad side effects and it actually helped with my concentration and anxiety problems I had before the bad MDMA trip.