Help? Feeling really depressed and miserable tapering off methadone

[Swimmingdancer]

Update: This is from over a year ago, I have long since quit methadone completely. Just explaining this because I noticed that people are still replying to this post, (which is totally fine if it helps others who might come across it though). - SD. March 2013.

[Original Post:]
I am feeling extremely depressed and hopeless and would love some help and support with what I'm going through, especially from people who have actually been in this situation, and some advice on coming up with a plan. It is my goal to get off methadone (and all other opiates or other drugs that cause physical dependence) completely.

Some backstory: I have been on methadone for 10 years. I was using heroin for about 5 years before that and continued using it for about the first 5 years while I was on methadone. My highest methadone dose was 100mg/day. I eventually got down to 50mg/day and stayed at that level for a long time. I have recently started tapering down with the goal of getting off it completely. A few things about me include that I have an extremely fast metabolism in that the effects of methadone does not last me anywhere near as long as the "average" - at 25mg for example it would last about 9-10 hrs before withdrawals set in, and so I take my methadone twice a day. I have recently gradually gotten my dose down to 24mg a day and I feel sick, joyless and totally unmotivated to even get out of bed, pretty much constantly. Of course it's not as bad as if I just stop taking it altogether though. I cannot fathom how anyone could ever quit methadone cold-turkey, I would definitely kill myself if I had to. I also seem especially sensitive to withdrawal symptoms and experience worse effects than average, although I may have just been led to believe this by clueless doctors and people who stopped taking methadone after only taking it for a short time. If I even decrease my dose by like 2mg I can feel it, and the resulting withdrawals seem to go on and on and get only marginally better a month or 2 after each decrease in dose.

Anyway, it is huge accomplishment for me to have gotten my dose down this low and to be tolerating how miserable I am feeling without having an uncontrollable urge to run out and buy dope. Add on top of all this I have various untreated or poorly-treated health issues, such as chronic pain, injuries, mental health issues such as ADHD etc (not that I've not tried to treat them, just nothing has helped all that much). As much as I do want to be rid of being chained to a pharmaceutical (and at the mercy of doctors/clinics/lawmakers etc), this is having a pretty adverse affect on my life and my mental state. I'm not sure how much more of this I can take with no end in sight. I am also terrified that I will never feel well again.

Thoughts? Advice? Compassionate words? Anyone successfully quit methadone after being on it for 10+ years?

Thanks.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

PS - I am not taking anything else right now, although I've tried a few natural things to help with the withdrawals and insomnia but they didn't seem to help. I am just hesitant to take anything for any period of time that could create it's own physical dependence.

 

[stardust.hero]

Hi Swimmingdancer I first want to congratulate you on choosing to taper off of methadone. I personally have never had a problem with methadone in particular but I know what a difficult and painstaking process it is. I can however identify with you with the fact of being at the mercy of doctors and lawmakers. Those are some fantastic reasons to get your independence back. I am sure we will get some experienced people in here to help you with some real advice, but in the meantime I wanted to say hey there and welcome.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

I am feeling extremely depressed and hopeless and would love some help and support with what I'm going through, especially from people who have actually been in this situation, and some advice on coming up with a plan. It is my goal to get off methadone (and all other opiates or other drugs that cause physical dependence) completely.

Some backstory: I have been on methadone for 10 years. I was using heroin for about 5 years before that and continued using it for about the first 5 years while I was on methadone. My highest methadone dose was 100mg/day. I eventually got down to 50mg/day and stayed at that level for a long time. I have recently started tapering down with the goal of getting off it completely. A few things about me include that I have an extremely fast metabolism in that the effects of methadone does not last me anywhere near as long as the "average" - at 25mg for example it would last about 9-10 hrs before withdrawals set in, and so I take my methadone twice a day. I have recently gradually gotten my dose down to 24mg a day and I feel sick, joyless and totally unmotivated to even get out of bed, pretty much constantly. Of course it's not as bad as if I just stop taking it altogether though. I cannot fathom how anyone could ever quit methadone cold-turkey, I would definitely kill myself if I had to. I also seem especially sensitive to withdrawal symptoms and experience worse effects than average, although I may have just been led to believe this by clueless doctors and people who stopped taking methadone after only taking it for a short time. If I even decrease my dose by like 2mg I can feel it, and the resulting withdrawals seem to go on and on and get only marginally better a month or 2 after each decrease in dose.

Anyway, it is huge accomplishment for me to have gotten my dose down this low and to be tolerating how miserable I am feeling without having an uncontrollable urge to run out and buy dope. Add on top of all this I have various untreated or poorly-treated health issues, such as chronic pain, injuries, mental health issues such as ADHD etc (not that I've not tried to treat them, just nothing has helped all that much). As much as I do want to be rid of being chained to a pharmaceutical (and at the mercy of doctors/clinics/lawmakers etc), this is having a pretty adverse affect on my life and my mental state. I'm not sure how much more of this I can take with no end in sight. I am also terrified that I will never feel well again.

Thoughts? Advice? Compassionate words? Anyone successfully quit methadone after being on it for 10+ years?

Thanks.

I was going to make a topic asking for help. I have been on Methadone since 2010. I have only Just been on Methadone for a year and a half. My dose was 115 at one point and its 92mgs now. The past few nights have just been Hell. I shiver and walking to the clinic just sucks. I dont really know Why but I think its due to Amphetamine use but If I go down 2mgs, Im usually fine for a Week then the next week it seems like sleep is not going to happen and then after two weeks I feel Somewhat normal again. Im no expert. You have been on for 10 years but I can feel you on some of what your saying especially very Small decreases. I just quit smoking Weed but For ME that helped and my clinic didnt ever test for that and at one point my counsoler Encouraged it. Im also On Xanax and Dexedrine. I know my ADD medication eliminates my methadone faster but Just in general I have a very Fast metabolism and always have. TBH It sounds Fucking gross and it may not be the brightest idea but Saturated Fat like fucking three big spoons of Peanut butter may help you get more if you cannot split dose. I never even ask because I just feel like hell every morning tbh with you. I wish you luck. God knows I am trying but when they make me come in the clinic for as long as I have been there lack of sleep just doesnt allow me to taper. I really want to know why I get treated like fucking shit too. It just pisses me off every day I go. If you have advice I could use some. I think your doing good. Dont let anyone try to tell you not to go down if you want to either clinics do that...and its beyond Fucked. Phenergen, is kinda bad to mix but at night it may help but thats last resort. I would find some Bacfolen, Lyrica,Gabapentin, Or Msybe Kava at night if it gets bad. I havent ever found shit to help the insomnia I get after small decreases though. I wish Opana maintenance was a fucking option but stupid fucking junkies ruin it for everyone.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

Stay away from benzos if you get takehomes. Clondine I heard can help really good but I wont take it with all the other meds even though I am tolerant. I have tried everything. Some other antihistamines might work. Maybe DXM but thats iffy and I never tried it. Kava helped me some in terms of natural but everything else seemed to make waking up way worse. Alcohol is the worse from my experience. its really hard but I think I gave you the only things I know that May help.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

PM me if you want. I feel quite fucking burnt on it all too.

 

[Missykins]

Perhaps you can you use Suboxone to get off methadone and then taper of Suboxone, which is likely to be easier.

 

[DexterMeth]

The methadone to suboxone switch is REALLY painful in itself. I was lucky to be in the ICU for it. It took me a week to switch, because when I did, it physically incompaticated me. They usually want you down to at least 30mg (more like 10mg imo) of methadone before doing the switch.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Thank you all for your posts! It is helpful just to have some people to talk to who are compassionate and/or know how this feels. Doctors are not very understanding because they don't understand what withdrawals really feel like, they think it's like having the flu and they are also taught that if you gradually taper you're dose you shouldn't experience any withdrawal symptoms, which is bullshit, especially for those of us who have been taking methadone for a long time. I am also in a horribly stressful situation with my medical care right now. I had a good doctor but then I moved and eventually decided I should find a doctor closer to me. All they seem to have in my area are clinics, no private doctors. So I went to this one clinic and the intake Dr was great and I thought everything was fine, then I showed up for my next appointment and was told that he was only temporary and was put with a young female doctor who I did not get along with and who wanted to drastically change my medication. I am currently on the tablets and have found they work much better than the liquid for me, and are more reliable in my area because the pharmacies make the liquid themselves (although she doesn't believe there could possibly be any difference whatsoever, in fact she doesn't believe anything I say), plus they are much easier to travel with and I travel very frequently. She is against the tablets and is switching me back onto the liquid, taking me off my self-taper, she actually thinks I shouldn't be trying to get off of it at all, and she treats me like crap. So I figured I'd just go back to my old doctor but he happens to be away! So I tried another clinic but the previously mentioned doctor told them not to prescribe to me. And this is just the half of it. Really don't need all this anxiety right now!

I have considered Suboxone and researched it a lot, but I am not yet convinced it is a good choice for me for a number of reasons, plus I am terrified of the switch from methadone. I feel mild withdrawals most of the time and start getting really sick after about 8 hrs after taking my last dose, so I couldn't imagine going for days without methadone.

BananaAndOranges I will definitely reply to you in more detail as soon as I have time, I am supposed to be doing something else right now.

Thanks everybody

 

[Swimmingdancer]

The methadone to suboxone switch is REALLY painful in itself. I was lucky to be in the ICU for it. It took me a week to switch, because when I did, it physically incompaticated me. They usually want you down to at least 30mg (more like 10mg imo) of methadone before doing the switch.

And Dexter, how long did you wait between your last dose of methadone before taking the Suboxone? Most doctors seem to suggest 24-48hrs but I've heard about people going into precipitated withdrwals or having other side effects even when they've waited over 48hrs. I don't think I could handle going through that.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

And Dexter, how long did you wait between your last dose of methadone before taking the Suboxone? Most doctors seem to suggest 24-48hrs but I've heard about people going into precipitated withdrwals or having other side effects even when they've waited over 48hrs. I don't think I could handle going through that.

oh god after 10 years I would wait a hell of a lot longer than 48hours let alone a week. Horrible advice. Dont let anyone Try to talk you into taking bupe 48 hours after methadone. You will more than likely end Up in a ICU. In regards to tablets versus liquid I cannot vouch to say which is more Effective but I do know liquid can cause a mess if you know what I mean. Especially traveling and what not. If your current doctor tries to give you shit about it I would use that as my second main excuse. Just in the past two weeks I have had 2 bottles Leak. Even though it wasn't that much it was still annoying as fuck seeing as how they weren't even anywhere to be really Tampered with that badly. I really cannot think of anything that can help other than the list I gave you of medications. All of which are fairly effective. That and Benzos. Please do not set yourself up and switch to bupe of you do choose that route. Wait until you are fucking Puking sick and cannot keep shit down. I really cannot stress that enough. I know also if you are getting nauseated Ginger Root does wonders. Thats kinda common sense but incase you haven't given it a chance.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hmm, I do have a fast metabolism in that I get withdrawal symptoms very soon after taking my methadone. For example, today I waited about 13 hours and I had bad diarrhea, nausea, a little vomiting but nothing really came up (not able to eat anything), sweating, shaking, feeling very cold, creepy skin sensations, anxiety, slightly erratic heartbeat, etc. I couldn't go a week without taking any methadone, I would probably kill myself. I am too terrified of the idea of precipitated withdrawals or side effects etc from the buprenorphine to try it. It is really frustrating that doctors are using the option of going on suboxone as a way to rationalize why they won't prescribe me my methadone. I really don't think they know much about suboxone (it has only started being prescribed in my area recently) and they claim everything I've heard about it from people who've actually taken it is untrue. Groan. I don't like that there is no way to know what it will do to me until I actually try it and that if it does affect me horribly there is nothing I can do. It's not like if the suboxone doesn't work or puts me into withdrawals I can just go right back to the methadone. At least I am familiar with methadone and have an idea what to expect, so I think I will just try to stay on that for now.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Oh and benzos do help but I don't know if that's a real possibility for me because most doctors won't prescribe them to anyone who has ever had a drug problem and they test my urine for them so it's not like I can just take them myself without risking getting my take-home doses and travel privileges taken away, which I really can't afford. Also I wouldn't want to take benzos on a regular basis because I wouldn't want to get dependent on them too. I have never had a problem with anything other than heroin and when I've been prescribed benzos for dental surgery in the past I had no desire to "abuse" them, so I think it's unfair that doctors just assume that anyone on methadone can't be prescribed any other drugs and are just looking to get high, but unfortunately that's the way it is.

How are you doing with your methadone BananasAndOranges? Are you still reducing your dose? It's so great that you are trying to taper at this point instead of waiting 10 years like me. Doctors told me that if you gradually taper off methadone, regardless how long you've been taking it, that you will not experience withdrawals - man was that a lie!! From what I know now, the sooner you get off it the better and the easier it is, and that anyone who takes it for more than a couple months IS going to have withdrawals while tapering and when they stop. Also it can affect different people very differently.

One thing I have been doing that has helped is ayahuasca. I would only recommend it for certain people though and only under the supervision of an experienced shaman or doctor.

Thanks for your tips. I am going to see my old doctor soon and see what he says, what he can prescribe me, etc. Wish me luck!

 

[BananasAndOranges]

Im still on 92mgs. Its just pissing me off being there for as long as I have and still not getting all the takehomes I am required. I will add more in a bit but yea dont fuck yourself with a dirty UA ..... so not worth it. I will comment that everytime I ask for leeway they look at my ONE dirty UA that I said was dirty right after I took it for just One fucking Vicodin. They act like thats USING. Thats not using. Thats not even self medicating at the dose of methadone I am on. It really pisses me off when they tell me Ive only been clean for 6 months but yet its really been a year and well almost 2 years. If I did want to use I could I have a bottle of Vicodin with MY name on it and a Refill. I told my counsoler that too. Its just common sense that ONE VICODIN is Not a slip or anything. A slip is getting high if one vicodin gets a methadone patient high I wouldnt be on methadone you know? Like I said Ill add more in a bit.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

I do remember a lady who had probation and they MADE HER GO TO A METHADONE CLINIC FOR THIRTY FUCKING DAYS. for pissing dirty...yea how fucked, she told Me I might as well consider being a lifer and I rolled my eyes.

 

[tokenname]

Hey dancer. I'm new here, and I just happened to come to this thread.
This is my first post here.
I just wanted to say I've been there..and it will get better.
It takes a long time though, which you already know.
I went cold turkey 13 years ago. To be honest, I've done my share of
w/d'ing from opiates over the years, and methadone is definitely one of the
hardest. Research will tell you the same thing.
I've heard bupe is super hard as well.
I don't like to drag out my unhappiness, and that's why I went cold turkey. If I had to do it over again-
I'd do exactly what you're doing.
You will get to "normal" again. Unfortunately, normal seems to be kind of awful sometimes, which is why we
end up dealing with substances like these. You're so smart to be doing what you are doing though. It may not feel like it now,
but you'll look back and you'll see what a good choice this is.
Making the decision to taper shows your strength of character, and fortunately, that's what you'll need to
make it to the other side of this.
I think that the suggestion of lyrica or neurontin is a good one. Neurontin has helped ease me through w/d twice now.
I'm no good at dealing with the unhappiness of w/d either..neurontin does help, and it's not been hard to stop taking it at all.
I refuse to sugar-coat anything, as I feel that would just be an insult.
But you're tough, so you have the tools to make it. And you're doing it the smart way.
I promise that one day you will sleep again. One day you'll wake up and your stomach won't hate you.
One day you'll wake up and you won't be cold. And one day, you'll wake up and you won't hate your life.
It probably won't be tomorrow. But it'll come. Until then, lean on those who are willing to help. I'll listen if you want that.
You're stronger than you think you are.
token

 

[Rose Petal]

I promise that one day you will sleep again. One day you'll wake up and your stomach won't hate you.
One day you'll wake up and you won't be cold. And one day, you'll wake up and you won't hate your life.
It probably won't be tomorrow. But it'll come. Until then, lean on those who are willing to help. I'll listen if you want that.
You're stronger than you think you are.
token

You're nice Token. I hope you stick around.

Dancer.. Good luck with this! I find it all a little scary because I'm currently on maintenance at 170. A lot for a girl! I wish I could say that I envisage stopping in the near future, but there's too much I want to put right in my life before I tackle that. I think I'd rather go cold turkey in a hospital setting than have many months/years of tapering from such a high dose.
Regarding having a high metabolism.. how about taking grapefruit juice an hour or two before your dose, since it slows the metabolism of the methadone. And add some antacid tablets when you dose to counter any negative effects of the acid. Fruit juices and also high doses of vitamin C cause you to use up the methadone faster, as does stress.

 

[Rose Petal]

..On the other hand, however...

Why did that female doctor think you should come off methadone? And - Is there any doubt in your mind that you won't relapse and begin to use heroin again? Have you dealt with the issues that were there when you began to use all those years ago? How's your life now? I know ten years is a long time on methadone, but as you say - for the past five it has kept you clean, and that's the most important thing.

I don't mean to sound unsupportive, I just want to make sure you've considered these things. It would be tragic for you to go through the awful process of tapering, and end up back where you began 15 years ago. Are you fairly certain that isn't going to happen? Have you a supportive network of friends and family to help you if you need their support? Do you feel confident you could deal with unexpected upset in your life, or a crisis of some kind, without relapse? Do you know with absolutely certainty that you are FINISHED with opiates, - ALL opiates, for good? If you have any doubt whatsoever, then perhaps you should rethink your decision to taper, and in fact should think about remaining on the lowest effective dose indefinitely, or at least until you've had counseling and feel that your world is stable, and you could cope with whatever life threw at you in a healthy, non destructive way.

I know that for me, I could not answer yes to many of those same questions. And I am TERRIFIED of relapse, of finding myself once again enslaved to opiates, consumed by the thought of them, energy directed toward maintaining a supply, etc etc.. you know what I mean. And so I keep myself medicated on a dose high enough to make me feel good.. calm, (mildly euphoric even), energetic, and otherwise well.. and most importantly, my methadone dose is high enough to render any quantity of any type of any opiate USELESS! I regularly stay with friends, one of whom is on a high dose of pain medication for chronic pain. The boxes of oxycontin and morphine that litter her medicine cabinet, are about as exciting to me as a box of panadol. Because I am safe. I do not trust myself to stop taking the methadone, and I'm scared that I never will.

I've heard it said that some people remain on methadone for life. Just as diabetics remain on insulin for life. The difference is stigma, and that sucks.I hope that's not the case for you. I hope you're stronger than I am.

From reading your words.. I'm sure that you are.

 

[tokenname]

Rose Petal..
Thanks for what you said.

It's hard to imagine there are many people who could honestly answer yes to those questions.
I believe some of the very best people on earth are in the same boat..
and there's comfort to be found in good company.
token

 

[Clarckent311]

Hi everyone. I am writing to tell you that there are a lot of things u can do to make ur taper easier. I am doing it right now and although I have only been on methadone for about 3 years and them oc for a couple years before that, I feel ur pain.
A few suggestions:
Get vitadone. This is a vitamin u can buy online that is specifically designed to give u what u need during a taper. It's a 3 a day for max absorption and it has loads of b vitamins, all other major vits and even a few extremely important amino acids.
Next take a full spectrum amino acid suppliment twice per day.
Add 2 doses of l-methionine per day. Methionine turns into Sam e in the brain. Sam e turns into all 4 nuero transmitters. Sam e alone does not cross the bbb well, but methionine does and will be very helpful.
I have been taking Valium as well. This must be a personal choice, but I have a great doctor who basically told me to take it even though I was hesitant. He said that although I will need to seen off the Valium eventually, a slow taper from Valium is not nearly as bad as methafone. Just make sure u don't stop the Valium suddenly. U must taper slowly or it can be dangerous.
Protien. U must get at least 50-100 grams of protein per day. I drink 2 protoen shakes each day. Your brains receptors need to regenerate, and they are all made of proteins. This will not help the wd, but will make it go away faster.
To sleep I take a suppliment Natures Bounty Valarian Root. It also has hops passiOn flower and lemon balm. Plain valarian did nothing for me, but this stuff helps me sleep, or at the least relieves any leftover anxiety or restless legs so I can lay comfortably in bed

Most important is clonidine. It takes away the goose flesh and really helps with temp control. U can tell the chill leave u as it kicks in.
Also taking milk thistle will support liver and kidneys and help u detox faster.
These things all help a lot, but there is still pain,chills,sweating, anxiety just not nearly as bad.
Finally the real secret is mindset. U have to do this as if u are fighting for ur life. Push though the hard days. Grit ur teeth and tell the wd that they are NOT STRONGER THAN U. TELL THEM EVERY DAY OUT LOUD. Pray if that's ur thing...on ur knees, for strength. I've never been religious in my life, but low and behold the power of prayer gives me hope sOmehow.
U can all make it through this. Nothing dangerous about it, u just have to be strong. Think about a strong person u look up too. Would they give up. U gotta fight and fight hard.
One more thing. Fuck clinics. Find a pain management doc and tell him/her that u got on the done because of pain. I really did, but they never actually checked me med records. Dress well when u go, shave, don't mention any illicit drug use, and u will be surprised how willing docs are to write pain scripts for done, especially if u say ur coming from another doc who already has u on methadone.
Hang in there. Check out the song Hold Us Together and listen when u feel depressed. That's all I got.