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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

your rights at work

The figures given are from the ABS and their definition is...

Officially, the ABS defines an employed person as someone aged 15 years or over who, during a period of one week, worked for one hour or more for pay, profit, commission or payment in kind; or worked for one hour or more without pay in a family business or on a family farm. An unemployed person is defined as someone aged 15 years or over who, during a period of one week was not employed, and had actively looked for work in the previous four weeks and was available to start work.

Whilst there's PLENTY of argument that the figures quoted don't represent the unemployed (or employed) properly, the one clear fact is that no government, regardless of party affiliation, wants to change it, as it works in their favour when they're in power.

have you ever had anything to do with the modern union movement or are you just relying on a stereotype to form your opinion?

Sadly I've had a lot to do with unions, which has probably soured my taste for them even more than I would have originally had.

Unions represent around 20% of the Australian workforce. That means 80% of us are doing it all by ourselves. So why on earth should unions demand and expect so much? We didn't elect them, and they sure as hell don't have the numbers to be in power.
 
Bent Mk2 said:
Actually there generally is...if you're good you'll get voted in, if you're not you'll get voted out.

You sure as hell don't expect to get screwed over by your own party and fired to put in a unionist (and I'm sure the allegations are bullshit too, passed around to discredit her.


Yes you do, that's politics. How did Malcolm Turnbull get fast-tracked into parliament and onto the front-bench again?

It's just stupid to try and compare politics to the labour market. For starters, nothing is stopping Kelly Hoare from running for parliament, she just hasn't received preselection for the ALP. Political parties don't employ politicians, the Commonwealth employs them. IT's just one of those asinine arguments that are allowed bubble up through the media and serve only to detract attention away from real issues.

Anyway, i'm done with this. Since that indigenous thread got closed I remembered why I don't bother posting here...
 
Chronik Fatigue said:
Yes you do, that's politics. How did Malcolm Turnbull get fast-tracked into parliament and onto the front-bench again?

If I recall correctly he won a hotly contested preselection battle for the seat of Wentworth (defeating King, the sitting Liberal member at the time).
 
Bent Mk2 said:
Sadly I've had a lot to do with unions, which has probably soured my taste for them even more than I would have originally had.

i'm interested in what those experinces were. could you please elaberate? (if you don't feel right about shairing it with all & sundery please PM me)

Bent Mk2 said:
Unions represent around 20% of the Australian workforce. That means 80% of us are doing it all by ourselves. So why on earth should unions demand and expect so much? We didn't elect them, and they sure as hell don't have the numbers to be in power.

a union is it's membership. so therefore unions are 20% of the workforce.
i don't know about other unions but i & all the other members in my union have a vote on who is going to represent us. any member who has been with the union for two years or more can nominate for a position in the union. if you can get the votes, you can have the job.
 
My stupid god damn work today after three years decided to offer me a countract!!
Get this they said 10 hours at $13 an hour currently i get 15 to 10 hours at $15.87. any when i said do i have to take teh contract he told me i probably wouldnt get any shifts if i didnt.

So i explain to him i couldnt afford to live on this exaplining my bills petrol car insurance and the fact i need to eat! and he still wont budge on the 10 hours.

So after 3 and a half years i either take a contract and get a second job or stay casual n face no shifts and need a new job anyway. so i said well at least on casual i have a small chance of getting the hours i need and declined the stupid contract!!! I am so angry :X This sucks :X :X :(
 
I'm really sorry to hear that Mandy :( Yeah, these new IR laws are great, just ask Mandy. :\
 
Read this today, just had to post in light of the advertising debate. Now, I'm out, this time I mean it...

Turning taxes into spin

May 17, 2007

It's time that government use of ads for political ends was reined in, write Graeme Orr and Joo-Cheong Tham.

THE Federal Government is at it again. In 2005, it allocated $55 million to promote WorkChoices, months before the law was even tabled in Parliament. Now it is doing the same with its "fairness" test.

Although a bill will be weeks or months away, full-page ads have appeared nationally, proclaiming "A Stronger Safety Net for Working Australians". The Government refuses to disclose its advertising plans or costings, but we are undoubtedly witnessing the beginning of a blitz that will culminate with television and radio ads.

How is this justified? The changes took effect on Monday May 7 in the absence of any detail. With such "legislation by advertisement", employers are supposed to work out their rights and obligations on the basis of the vague notion of "fair compensation" mentioned in an ad. Many thousands of AWAs made before Parliament finalises any bill will be questionable.

Worse, the ads encourage us to seek advice from "the Workplace Authority", which will decide what is "fair". There is no such body. The law established the Employment Advocate, and only Parliament can rename it, let alone give it new powers.

The Government claims the ads are to explain the detail of the changes. Leaving aside the fact that there are no details until a bill is drafted and Parliament debates it, the style, content and timing of the ads give away their partisan intention. Their purpose is to attempt to neutralise an issue on which the Coalition is vulnerable. If the aim were purely informational, the Government would wait until the law was settled.

Curiously, the Prime Minister earlier admitted it would be unethical to run partisan ads in an election year. He did this while exhorting business groups both to run ads promoting WorkChoices over ALP policy and to fund the Liberal Party to do likewise. Despite this, the recent ads are clearly partisan in character. True, they do not expressly criticise the ALP or ACTU. However, ads can be partisan without resorting to direct attacks. Ads are tainted with such a character when they sell, rather than explain, controversial government policy.

The latest ads open with claims about recent economic gains. Not only has no study or modelling ever linked such gains to recent IR changes, the claims fail the Prime Minister's own test that ethical ads should be limited to explaining policy. Having little detail to explain, the ads are then peppered with that staple of commercial advertising — the spin-doctored slogan — to counter perceptions that WorkChoices is unbalanced.

"Fair" is becoming the new F-word. As Mr Rudd chants it relentlessly, so the Government is now using public money to piggyback on it, ad nauseam. The "fairness" test is ostensibly aimed at protecting various conditions, including public holidays, penalty and overtime rates. Yet the ads fail to mention the shrunken nature of this test. The test does not, as the Prime Minister once put it, guarantee workers will be "no worse off" because the benchmark is award conditions — conditions that are usually inferior to actual industry conditions.

Even against this minimal benchmark, the "fairness" test does not ensure workers will always be adequately compensated for losing them. The ads signal that such "fairness" may give way to the "economic circumstances of the business". Workers on existing AWAs are also denied the slender protection of the "fairness" test.

Partisan government advertising has a corrosive effect on democracy. It arms already entrenched governments — the Coalition federally and Labor at state level — with an incumbency benefit denied to other parties. To put things in perspective, the $55 million for the first WorkChoices campaign exceeded the income of the ALP in the last financial year by nearly $20 million and was nearly 30 times the receipts of the Greens. It dwarfs the public funding payments for elections.

The situation will be exacerbated if state Labor governments retaliate with counter-ads. They have not been shy in soft-soaping their citizens with ads reassuring them of how good state health, education and other services are. In such an orgy of government-by-PR, the misuse of public money not only spreads half-truths but drowns out competing, but unresourced, voices.

Partisan government advertising exposes the fact that current regulation of government advertising fails to meet democratic standards. Such regulation is governed by guidelines devised in 1995 by the Keating government, which itself milked the taxpayer for self-promotion. These guidelines have been vigorously criticised by the Auditor-General and parliamentary committees. Not only do they fail to safeguard against partisan advertising, but they are not subject to independent supervision.

The Senate's finance and public administration committee has recommended more robust guidelines that include a prohibition against party-political advertising and supervision by the Auditor-General. Democrat senator Andrew Murray has gone further in a bill proposing that only ad campaigns with bipartisan approval be allowed in the last six months of a parliament. In the interests of probity and political equality, it is high time to adopt these recommendations.

Graeme Orr is an associate professor of law, University of Queensland. Joo-Cheong Tham is a senior lecturer in law, University of Melbourne.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opini...1178995233009.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
 
I'm really sorry to hear that Mandy Yeah, these new IR laws are great, just ask Mandy.

Um, she's casual. These laws have no effect on her whatsoever. She's never had any rights, until now that they're offering her a contract. But don't let that get in the way of bullshit.

420star, what I meant for no one voted for them was not in terms of the union itself, but the apparent self-appointed power unions feel they should wield in politics and business. They're a minority, so why should they dictate the norm for society?

As for my dealings, I worked alongside a union site for a couple of years, and the absolute standover tactics against our non-union members, the threats we received, not to mention the scams, thefts and god knows what else I saw performed against their own employers was horrid.

Union reps being paid $1500 a week ON TOP OF THEIR WAGE to sit on their arse all day, smoke and swear and not once pick up a tool or do an ounce of work. I saw them (and heard them boast) about sabotaging the site to force a 'sympathy' strike by emptying the milo tin (which is cause for a day of stop work). I personally had fights with the union bosses who walked into our business and demanded that our sparkies who were doing some minor maintenance in the building signed up as union members otherwise they'd stop all deliveries to our building (and indeed had a guy stopping a cement truck out front). Thankfully our sparkie and his apprentices hate unions as much as I do, as they stood toe to toe. So much for protecting jobs, these guys wanted us to fire them unless they joined up.

I'm sure there are great unions out there, but the vocal unions like the CMEFU (or whatever they're called) are a bunch of scum.

Hell look at the waterfront dispute. The absolute bullshit the unions tried to pull. And all of their threats were bullshit. Guys down there now earn far more money and have far better conditions than they ever had under the dark union cloud.

As I said, they had their place. Now the majority of scammers are just trying to protect their arses and their perks.

Read this today, just had to post in light of the advertising debate. Now, I'm out, this time I mean it...

Sure you are! Even when I point out that you're quoting an opinion piece? That's no different to putting my posts in quotes and using that as fact now is it? ;)
 
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Bent Mk2 said:
Um, she's casual. These laws have no effect on her whatsoever. She's never had any rights, until now that they're offering her a contract. But don't let that get in the way of bullshit.

until now it was illegal to drop someone's wage without their concent. casuals did/do have rights. just not many & it is often hard to exercise them without a union or a lawyer.

Bent Mk2. when i hear of unionists acting in the way you describe it make's me very upset, as this gives us all a bad name. it is a shame on the CFMEU that the actions of a few bad eggs have sowed your opinion of unions:(
 
Mandy110 said:
My stupid god damn work today after three years decided to offer me a countract!!
Get this they said 10 hours at $13 an hour currently i get 15 to 10 hours at $15.87. any when i said do i have to take teh contract he told me i probably wouldnt get any shifts if i didnt.

that sux mandy:X anyone finding themselves in mandy's position should contact their relivent union or the office of employee advicate or if in victoria the workplace rights advicate to find out what rights (if any) they have.
 
420star said:
until now it was illegal to drop someone's wage without their concent.

They're not dropping her wage, they're offering her a contract vs. casual.

She doesn't have to take it, and can remain casual, but like all casual positions since the dawn of time it means they don't have to fire her, they just don't roster her on. Having been in that position way back when Keating was PM I know for a cold, hard, fact that these new IR laws have no influence on her current unfortunate position.

Trust me, I've spent the last decade dealing with casual staff, I know their lack of rights back to front.
 
Does the contract include annual/sick leave and does it guarantee at least 10 hours work per week?

If so, then the rate of pay dropping seems fair- assuming its still at least minimum wage.

Casual workers have always received a higher rate of pay than permanent/contract workers as they dont get holiday/sick leave and have no guaranteed set hours.

If you expect to get regular shifts then you really shouldn't be a casual worker anyway.
 
if a casual worker has been getting similar shifts for some time & then all of a sudden get's no shifts anymore they were able to take their boss to the commission. the boss would then have to prove that there had been a down turn in business or face unfair dismissal on grounds of discrimination. this happened to the company i work for about 2 years ago. when a worker stoped getting any shifts after he made a workcover claim. discrimination was proven & the worker got a large pay out. i can't tell you the amount.
 
She's not getting less or no shifts, she's being paid less for a contracted position.

Bur regarding your point, taken from the (biased) ACTU site:

Casuals who have been receiving regular hours over a long period of time should be entitled to have a reasonable and equitable number of hours distributed amongst them. If your hours are cut, you are required to a satisfactory explanation.

IMHO the boss was an idiot and the casual was bloody lucky.

Here's a completely separate question; how do you feel about recruitment agencies and temp workers? They have no rights, they can be 'fired' for no or any reason, and yet a lot of them could be covered by unions. Why aren't they touched in terms of unionism and union propaganda?
 
Wasn't there some rule a while ago that if a casual worker had regular shifts over a certain time then that position was required to be advertised as a permanent position? Thats how I got my first couple of jobs.

Who would want to be casual anyway when no- you are not guaranteed to get any shift just because you have been working them for a while- it is up to the employer when s/he needs you there? At least with a contract there is some level of protection.
 
They are offering me 10 hours no more no less when i was getting 15 to 20 on a higher pay prior to this.

I have called workplaces info line the onbudsmen industrial relations and the union ( i sure am glad id idnt bother to join the union useless they were!!!) They all said that unfortunately despite the fact i have been getting 15 hours each week for the past 3 and a half years they can do nothing!

I did however call the local legal centre and it turns out i do have rights!! And he said if my shifts drop to the point were i would need a new job he would go to court with me. Because even as a casual after 3 months on an average amount of hours that average is considered on going and work if that just disappears for no reason it is grounds for unfair dismissal. So any one in my situation pm me and i will give u the legal centres number.

The union was so useless she was like they just want to make u part time and i said if i take that part time contract i have to get anotehr job if i dun take it i have to get another job how can that be legally correct. Then i got cranky and said im glad i didnt pay union fees coz a lawyer will take this to court and the union just says too bad find a new job so then i hung up.!!!! :X :X

Anyway i decided to leave the job and am looking for a new one if my shifts drop in the mean time i will go unfair dismissal!


Just relaised my first pot had a typo i was getting 15 to 20 a week and under the contract would be loosing around $100 a week
 
And now they probably hire more staffs, make more $$, pay more tax, and the government can pay you some centerlink coin

Win/win
 
I actually already get centrelink money for being a student to cut a long story short i usually give that money to my mum who is on a pension because my dad is disabled due to an aneurysm in the brain my family gets barely enough money to pay the bills and buy groceries on this pension meaning my mum has to struggle to care for my dad as well as work and still things are hard

if my parents had of choosen to be on the dole their entire lives we would be better off it seems dole bludgers are higher up on centrelinks priorities.

Until i find more work i will get my student payments first week i get paid afterwards ill give it straight back to my parents so they can run a household.

Yes centrelink sucks also. I am begining to think everything to do with our government sucks!!!:X
 
^just remember - no matter who you vote for, the government always gets in ;)
 
dunno if this fits here but:

Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd has confirmed his wife's company underpaid some workers, but said it was an "honest mistake" she had sought to rectify.

At a news conference at Parliament House in Canberra, Mr Rudd made it clear that he and Therese Rein were grappling with the "difficult" conflict of interest problems thrown up by his ambition to be the country's next Prime Minister and her growing business interests.

"I am proud of my wife," Mr Rudd said. "She has built up her business from scratch" since 1989 to make a company that operates in four countries.

He said they lived in "two different spheres" and had "separate lives" as far as their careers were concerned. As an independent woman she was not just an "an appendage of a middle-age man".

Mr Rudd spoke after his wife's company issued a statement. Ms Rein is currently in London.

The company has denied allegations that it unfairly stripped workers of significant award conditions.

However, Mr Rudd said that when Ms Rein found that there were "problems with it [the employee contracts], she sought to rectify it".

The Opposition Leader, who again attacked the Government on its industrial relations policies, acknowleged that questions about his wife's company's employee contracts were "embarassing".

But he said it was "all part and parcel of life in the fast lane" and came with being in public life.

"My wife's company has never used AWAs," Mr Rudd said.

"I would be dishonest with you if I said it's not embarrassing that these things happen. Of course it is embarrassing," Mr Rudd said.

However, he said the incident would not stop Labor from attacking the Government's industrial relations laws.

"What we are concerned about is, how do you make the laws which govern Australia's industrial arrangements for the future, clearer and more balanced. I have said consistently, up hill and down dale, they need to be made fairer," he said.

"We also need to make sure they are in the best interests of working families."

"We have had separate lives on these questions going back many, many years. She runs her company and I am proud of what she has done in that company," he said.

"My only knowledge of this company YES was when she told me in the middle of last year she was buying it. Beyond that it has never really occupied much, if anything, of our conversations in the evening."

An honest mistake: Rudd
 
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