• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Misc Workaholics: drug use vs. sobriety/drug rotations/keeping up w/ long hrs+high stress

LucidSDreamr

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
7,303
I've been grappling with the questions about drug use and keeping up with very stressful jobs. particularly mentally super demanding not physically. very long hours and working 6 days a week.


1) is drug use sustainable or will tolerance and burn out just result in failure of using drugs to keep up at work?...or where you just become dependent on the drug but are no better performance with the drug at that point than you would be if you were totally clean.


2) what do you suggest in terms of rotations to maybe avoid addiction to a particular drug?



I'm getting very burned out lately and having trouble staying focused and productive at work, don't know if drugs are the answer or the problem
 
IME, strict regimen, right diet and good choice of supplements and possibly nootropics will help with that.

I personally have done something similar for a few years, was using a lot of noots and keeping the records, so I came down to what is of the most importance to me, but every body is different and hence will require a different recipe, it is for you to find out what works the best. I can do a quick run down on the supplements (also drugs and noots) that I found the most useful, if interested.
 
So, the quick rundown then (of the stuff that is most relevant to stressful condition and non-stop working):

DRUGS:

-Methamphetamine and Amphetamine (including 2-FA and 2-FMA)
Only useful if its a question of being immediately up or sleep is fully out of possibilities, I do not recommend them as performance aids, as they get out of hand easily, cause immediate tolerance and lots of long lasting damage.

-NDRI's (phenidates, coke, cathinones)
Might be useful in low doses taken occasionally, and if acceptable within own metabolism. By low dose I mean about 10mg or so taken in the early afternoon, I came to conclusion that taking them in the morning is not as efficient as later throughout the day. Snorting and plugging should be left for recreational purposes, take it orally if you want plain performance. My favorite in this category is Isopropylphenidate - gentle and calm energy and sustained focus with very little of a comedown compare to others.

-Tianeptine - atypical antidepressant and mood stabilizer with opioid activity and unclear effect on liver. Use at your own risk, start low, at around 10-15mg a day. Moderate anti-depressant activity, as well as stimulant properties are noted with this one. Possible cause of chest pains and limbs stiffness.

-Mexidol (Emoxypine) - great for taking after heavy drinking, stress situations and especially helpful to wake up refreshed with less hours - just 125mg before sleep and you'll be amazed at how easy it will be for you to wake up. I like it.

-Adaptol
- mild but effective anxiolytic, mild antidepressant effects and virtually no interactions or side effects noted. I just wish it would be cheaper. Doses of 500mg up to 1.5 grams a day as needed.

-Validol - another Russian old times invention. I use it as a front line immediate non-drowsy anxiolytic and it helps with chest pains, nausea and hypertension. Sublingval administration and super cheap, highly recommend it!

-Phenibut - no need for any introduction, it is a very popular anxiolytic that presents a danger of addiction and might require tapering, as with benzos. I recommend to use when needed, not exceeding a gram per day. Stimulating properties as well as moderate anti-depressant and anxiolytic activity noted.

-Kratom - also no need for introduction. The right strain will give a perfectly balanced energy and calmness, taking away the stress. Lots of interactions with other stuff. May become addictive and may present dangers to some. Use at your own risk!


NOOTROPICS (by noots I mean the stuff that actually improves our memory, thus having to do with choline system interaction):

-Aniracetam - great stuff! Subtle anti-depressant effects, increased music and media appreciation, memory benefits, slight increase in energy. Requires you to take it with a source of fat, I used flaxseed oil caps. Daily cycled dosage for me was 700mg-1.8grams.

-Phenylpiracetam - the most stimulating nootropic out there, especially if combined with Pramiracetam and Aniracetam. It warms you up too so if you work outside in a winter months this could be of a very big help. Sharpens attention, memory, supresses appetite. But unfortunately, its tolerance raises even quicker than classic stimulants, so cycling it is very important as the sucker is also not cheap.
Daily dosage was ranging from 80mg up to 600mg. Going up higher than that and you risk having some nasty glutaminergic toxicity, especially if taking it with other noots and/or stims.

-Pramiracetam - goes very well with aforementioned PhenylP. When combining, the dosage varied from 100mg to 350mg - too much of it makes me jittery and annoyed, not very productive. It has strong memory enhancing effects, great for exams and such IMO. Also posess a mild anti-depressant effect.

-Noopept - versatile, super cheap and with very little side effects and a whole train of positive effects, like increase of BDNF and NGF. Posess moderate anti-depressant effects. Great memory enhancement, increased attention, calming effects as well as mildly stimulating effects. Dosages used were from 10mg up to 80mg on days of extreme stress. Should not be taken for prolonged periods of time, must be cycled! Even positively sounding and desirable effects like increased BDNF and NGF might result in something very bad if you continuosly will keep doing it. Moderation is the key!

SOURCES OF CHOLINE:

-Choline bitartrate - IMO somewhat useless substance although very cheap. Will make you smelly and it's nowhere as efficient as Alpha-GPC, Citicholine or even Lecithin.

-Alpha-GPC - side effect free and a very good source of choline. Remember that you dont need a monstrous amounts of it if you are a healthy human being, 150mg a day cycled, is enough IME.

-Citicholine (CDP-Choline) - at first I was really enjoying it - very energwetic, uplifting, with moderate anti-depressive effect, but years after using I found that it's responsible for weird chest pains, especially if taken with other noots. So be careful, cycle it and use lower doses, like 200mg or less a day.

-Lecithin - mildly effective but somewhat expensive. I still recommend it, dosages up to 2 grams a day. Can be used as a tasty addition to you milk shakes!

-Centrophenoxine - very interesting stuff, that I believe has some activity with sigma receptors. It has a long lasting effects even after stopping taking it. Perceived effects - euphoria or dysphoria states are possible, increased memory function, increased mental faculties, feeling of increased immersion, mild anti-depressant effects. It also might prolong our lifespan. I like this one, daily cycled dosages for me range from 100mg up to 800 mg.


SUPPLEMENTS (extracts of plants, as well as synthetic made supplements):

-Yohimbine - a lot of people underestimate this one and also extreme caution must be exercised with it as the dosages are below 10mg. I usually make ethanolic solution and dose volumetrically, about 3mg a day, use it occasionally only.
Effects are stimulation, appetite suppression, euphoria, increased stamina and general performance. Gotta be very careful if combining it in stack with others as it has multitude of interaction, always start low and dont use daily for long periods.

-Ashwaganda extract - awesome herb that has a quite pronounced effect on stress and being tired. Doses for extract are 400-800mg a day, also cycled. Does not mix well with classic stims, as well as psychedelics - caused a weird adrenergic stimulation in both cases with me.

-Rhodiola Rosea - very nice herb but must use a legit extract - too many fakes out there!
It reminds me of a herbal MDMA in it's way of action - reduces aggression, reduces irritability, adds to warmth and mildly stimulating, mild antidepressant activity.
Doses will depend on the type of extract you get but you can take a lot safely IME.

-Sulbutiamine - mildly stimulating, good with stress, increases blood flow and adds to body warmth. May cause headaches so use occasionally with doses around 200mg.

-Agmatine sulphate - I love this one! It increases effects of pretty much everything, makes me feel smooth and more relaxed, dilates blood vessels. I recommed cycling it with daily dosages from 400-800mg.

-Lion's Mane Mushroom - awesome immunomodulator, neuroregenerating supplement. I recommend it in times of stress and recovery, poor immune system function, after stimulant binges. Posess mild anti-depressive qualities.

-Reishi Mushroom - another immunomodulator, good for prolonged stress and for genral well-being.

-Passionflower extract - good to use to help relax without grogginess. Mild and gentle but still noticeable effects. Doses from 600mg and up.

-N-AcetylCysteine (NAC) - removes heavy metals from body's tissues while rasing your dopamine. What more can you ask? :D Doses of 500mg up to 2 grams per day, cycling is recommended. The only downside is that your bodily fluids will start to stink up a little.

-D,L-Phenylalanine - weird one but I use it sometimes when need more energy. May cause headaches and has a whole list of interactions. I use about 200-300mg when needed. Combines nicely with Phenibut and Kratom.

-Green tea extract (with highest EGCG content) - better that L-Theanine IME, increases effects of cannabis and Kratom, provides with mild but sensible stimulation and relaxation at the same time.

-Flaxseed oil - general well being and a mild anti-depressant effects.

-Vitamin E - good antioxidant, very little side effects and mild stimulation noted.

That's all I could remember now as I dont have those records at the moment (being at work). All mentioned effects with those substances are anecdotal experiences of a madman, so take it with a grain of salt! :p

I also recommend aromatherapy with high quality oils for those who are susceptible to smells - man, it works great on me! Spearmint, Peppermint, Bergamot oils are good for stimulation, Pine needles, Myrrh - good for relaxation. You gotta find what works for you! :)

I hope that helps someone! ;)
 
I personally think it's sustainable, but i find it's necessary to take a couple days off on a occasion to CT everything and reset tolerance. It also requires serious discipline to not let your dosages skyrocket. When you have weeks that require tons of non-stop work, it can be really easy to get on an upper/downer train that's difficult to jump off. It's best to avoid addictive drugs altogether, but if you're going to use addictive drugs, I would stay away from the ones that are notorious for developing quick tolerance (eg benzos, pregabalin, most opioids)

I think my drug use can generally enhance my work performance, but that's mainly because i have insomnia and chronic pain issues. If you don't have any underlying conditions that you're trying to treat, i would avoid taking anything addictive on a regular basis. I think using amps once a week, for example, can enhance your work performance without causing many problems.

With everything said, it's also going to be a very individual thing. Some people can be functional addicts while it may ruin other people's lives. YMMV

I also don't think i saw anyone mention microdosing psychadelics. That can be great, and it doesn't carry many of the downsides of more traditional stims.
 
I think it CAN be sustainable, it just requires a lot of self discipline... also while it may be sustainable for fairly long periods, even years, it may not be sustainable forever.

Personally I cycle Modafinil/Armodafinil, Phenibut, Tianeptine, Phenylpiracetam and various combinations of such. I have also used a whole bunch of other milder nootropics but those ones are the ones that have a definite perceptible effect. I've been doing this for several years now, and although I have kept tolerance and dosages in check and am using basically the same dosages of everything now that I was when I started, I have definitely slipped a little with my initially very strict rules at points, and used the same substance multiple days in a row and that sort of thing, which usually means that during downtime you are even less effective than usual... and for me at least, it has just always been the case that the days in between the enhancements I am just clearly less effective and less motivated than the "on" days.

Despite relatively few obvious negatives, I am becoming more and more concerned recently about possible long term negative effects this is having on my mental well being, since I am very rarely not on something even if the substance varies and those substances all have a legitimate medical use. Also, although I have no doubt got other things out of it, I am pretty sure the net amount of happiness in my life hasn't increased particularly despite the knowledge I have worked very hard for the past few years, which is surely the most important thing. I do feel more and more recently that if you consistently have to use chemical enhancements to force yourself to stay motivated and avoid burning out, a better option really would be a career change for something that genuinely interests you and you don't have to force yourself to do every day even despite increasing stress and general psychological fatigue. This is something I plan to do now as soon as reasonably possible... which probably means at least another 6 months on and off the enhancement train. Hopefully I can keep it together until then!
 
^ the career change thing ive considered and been on the other side of. but then you make 1/3 of the money and instead of the stresses of a stressful job you deal with the stresses of not having health insurance, good drugs, or being able to take care of your loved ones.

I've sort of made the decision that i prefer the stress of a rough job over the stress of barely getting by. And I actually enjoy work to be honest, its kind of its own destructive addiction.

VOLSAM THANKS! great reference i'll be coming back to this list for some time

What drugs are you using LucidDreamer?

normally kratom and caffeine, got some modafinil I havn't tried yet that I will.


Ive tried amphetamine but it just ruins my sleep and after one or two days doesn't really work, just gets me tweaked but not productive, its too draining of a drug.

much of the problem with my current drugs is having to take downers to sleep. and I'm dependent on the kratom now. I'm looking to get out of that
 
Last edited:
I've rotate many drugs in order to soften my opiate wd's, I've found using anything less then 2 weeks every day won't give any wd's, at least with GBL, amphetamine, benzos and gaba/pregabalin.
 
[B said:
-Methamphetamine and Amphetamine (including 2-FA and 2-FMA)[/B]
Only useful if its a question of being immediately up or sleep is fully out of possibilities, I do not recommend them as performance aids, as they get out of hand easily, cause immediate tolerance and lots of long lasting damage=UNQUOTE]

I can agree , Although oral meth use seems to be possible with a fuck load of will power
 
Top