killarava2day
Ex-Bluelighter
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Wacky said:
Howard has never taken responsibility, he lived at home well into his thirties... Since then his he's had dear old Jeanette to take care of him 8(
Why NOT to vote Lib this year
- Thread starter killarava2day
- Start date
Howard has never taken responsibility, he lived at home well into his thirties... Since then his he's had dear old Jeanette to take care of him 8(
Munted
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^^ Apollo. . .maybe you should just chill. . .Think about teh following facts too. . .
Politics is such a shit subject and anybody who's even halfway passionate is also more often than not halfway blindly supporting that which their family always has. . .
I think this is a shit thread! It's promoting only anger and intolerance in nearly every post. The frustration level is waaaaaay too high. . .
Fucken BBQ conversation killing topics (Thanks Tim Ferguson!)
Let's all go hang in the what are you drinking thread get pissed and have a laugh instead. . .
Make your own vote count people, let everyone else the fuck alone and do what they want to do. All this petulant arguing back and forth. . . .man it's making me tried! Be happy!
Politics is such a shit subject and anybody who's even halfway passionate is also more often than not halfway blindly supporting that which their family always has. . .
I think this is a shit thread! It's promoting only anger and intolerance in nearly every post. The frustration level is waaaaaay too high. . .
Fucken BBQ conversation killing topics (Thanks Tim Ferguson!)
Let's all go hang in the what are you drinking thread get pissed and have a laugh instead. . .
Make your own vote count people, let everyone else the fuck alone and do what they want to do. All this petulant arguing back and forth. . . .man it's making me tried!
Be happy!
onetwothreefour
Bluelight Crew
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^^^ hey, that's not necessarily true. i'm pretty passionate about my political views, and differ *hugely* from what my parents think.
Insane Platypus
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Munted said:^^ Apollo. . .maybe you should just chill. . .Think about teh following facts too. . .
Politics is such a shit subject and anybody who's even halfway passionate is also more often than not halfway blindly supporting that which their family always has. . .
I think this is a shit thread! It's promoting only anger and intolerance in nearly every post. The frustration level is waaaaaay too high. . .
Fucken BBQ conversation killing topics (Thanks Tim Ferguson!)
Let's all go hang in the what are you drinking thread get pissed and have a laugh instead. . .
Make your own vote count people, let everyone else the fuck alone and do what they want to do. All this petulant arguing back and forth. . . .man it's making me tried!
Oh pfffft - if you can't handle political threads, then don't read them.
Political threads are fun - seeing a tug-of-war between intransigent forces. They're also fun to post in but I rarely get too fervent about it nowadays - I take my politics with a grain of salt the size of Jupiter.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2002
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As with many others in this thread (interesting read!), I'll be voting Green. The most important thing for me is their drug policy; not just for my own personal benefit but for the benefit of the nation. The Greens are consistent and they have a social conscientious. Of course the prospect of them having a majority is slim, but having a significant portion of the vote will help a lot!
and hey, how can we have a revolution if we don't start at the voting box? The greens are the only party with the potential to revolutionise Australia.. from what I can tell!
I also really wonder how much longer the Earth will go on without crumbling under us with all the shit we put it through in the name of profit. One day (maybe in a decade which isn't long really), the price will become more personal for abusing the planet - not that the australian government being Green will stop (is the whole world's responsibility and the whole world likes profit too much to care)
BTW that's fucked up about not letting people vote or enrol late.. nasty shit...
and hey, how can we have a revolution if we don't start at the voting box? The greens are the only party with the potential to revolutionise Australia.. from what I can tell!
I also really wonder how much longer the Earth will go on without crumbling under us with all the shit we put it through in the name of profit. One day (maybe in a decade which isn't long really), the price will become more personal for abusing the planet - not that the australian government being Green will stop (is the whole world's responsibility and the whole world likes profit too much to care)
BTW that's fucked up about not letting people vote or enrol late.. nasty shit...
-Thoth
Bluelight Crew
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But they've also done fuck all when it comes to issues like the CAD, foreign debt, our status as a net capital importer and our domestic savings rate, and there's no point in looking at half of the picture when considering who you're going to vote for.
A current account and trade deficit are not an intrinsically bad things. CAD's are driven by foreign capital inflows, and represent offshore investor confidence in the domestic Australian economy. CAD's are often accompanied by economic growth, more jobs and tend to reflect the fact consumers are out there purchasing stuff, which is generally a good thing. Australia also takes a bit of an unfair battering in its export market due to the fact that our economy is focused on mining and agriculture. We do these two industry sectors better than anyone else really, with a high level of competition and efficiency, however our access to markets is limited because the EU heavily subsidises its inneficient farmers/miners with its Common Agricultural Policy. The US retailiates with its Export Enhancement Policy of subsidising steelworkers and its farmers. Australia is caught in the middle, and Govt simply doesn't have the dosh to try and participate in this kind of high stakes trade war. Any protectionism we institute they can more than match. This also contributes to our CAD, because we are simply being denied fair access to markets we could otherwise profit from. The Howard govt tried to find a way out of this trade war by organising a bilateral FTA with the US, an agreement of mixed results to say the least.
The primary problem with your post is I think you are overestimating the control the Govt has in trying to regulate the CAD. Even with export problems like I outlined, it's just primarily a domestic problem whereby people are simply choosing to spend more instead of save. The govt has put in place some policies, the superannuation co-contribution was one to encourage putting money away. Essentially however, It's not the governments fault we have a CAD, that's primarily just a reflection of the market at the moment. Monetary policy is the role of the reserve bank, not the legislature... What do you expect them to do?
Oh, yeah... A big fuck you for making me defend the libs. Always an unpleasant experience.
Chaos Butterfly
Bluelight Crew
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Just one note. I am absolutely NOT supporting the greens because of their drug policy. I could care less about their drug policies frankly, yes decriminilisation would be a good thing but it isn't going to happen any time soon, so I support them because of their environmental and social policies which hopefully can and will have an effect on the future government. People need to learn to look beyond their personal situautions...
CB...
CB...
BREAKaBEAT
Ex-Bluelighter
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DrShrink said:
Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the information, it was really helpful
Also, I checked out that politics link and love the Forum ! You shall be seeing me post in there soon !
Thanks again !
^^ woot.
To everyone else if you like australian politics, i run a decent sized local forum on the topic
Latham gets a lot of hate, but i actually like the guy. Reading some of his books and speeches helps. He's very cagy campaigner, so he's been fighting on image thus far and doing so very sucessfully. Theres far more to government than that of course, but he has a decade of time as a policy wonk in parliament, produced several books on education, community re-vitilisation, and economics both local and global, not to mention a lot of ideas.
Sure, he is a cheap pilferer of the third way 'triangulation' designed by Dick Morris, (an advisor to Clinton). Blair used it in the same way. Its done best when it solves a left wing problem, with right wing ideas, and vice versa, appealing to all, and letting pragmatism rule the day. As such its a very temporary philisophical union of the left/ right political divide.
(If you want a great critique of Third Way, i recommend "Growth Fetish" By Clive Hamilton. )
Latham though recognises many youth problems and forcoming issues, and though sometimes autocratic (ie inserting garrett into a seat over rank and file) he puts forward many promising democratic and grass roots ideas.
As an example, until a year ago he ran polls on his website, and would often argue a specific way within labor party discussions on an issue depending on the poll results from his electorate. I think thats a promising sign.
How he'll turn out ?, well who knows. I expected him to wait as a shadow minister much longer and let beazley or crean fall this election. But he's chosen to fight for the party and hes certinaly given howard a fright.
Lathams got a lot of potential, and hence i think most coalition voters dont like him, because he represents their parties impending doom. Like an train bearing down on them, their hero's foot stuck in the right hand side track, lathams middle path spells their heros fall. Once this is accepted though, i think many will find they quite like his policies, he's hardly left wing.
For us on the left, he represents a younger generation of politican, at 43 he realise's he's a part of a changing world, and has some ideas about positioning us for these. Despite election motivated steps against gay marriage and heroin trials, once in power you may see some changes, or at least a greater voice to liberal ideals (in the traditional sense, not the cons party*)
Latham knows his history of the labor movement, and believes in its ideals. His stratergies and tools for solving the social problems may often sit on the right, but the goals he desires are ones which will find comfort with many on the left. And he's got ability, and drive.
If nothing else, nows the time to get used to Latham, he's going to be on the scene for a while yet.
(* see thats why you shouldnt vote for the Liberals, theres no more 'liberals' in the Liberal party. Never really was anyway.)
DrShrink
Political Animal Forum
To everyone else if you like australian politics, i run a decent sized local forum on the topic
Latham gets a lot of hate, but i actually like the guy. Reading some of his books and speeches helps. He's very cagy campaigner, so he's been fighting on image thus far and doing so very sucessfully. Theres far more to government than that of course, but he has a decade of time as a policy wonk in parliament, produced several books on education, community re-vitilisation, and economics both local and global, not to mention a lot of ideas.
Sure, he is a cheap pilferer of the third way 'triangulation' designed by Dick Morris, (an advisor to Clinton). Blair used it in the same way. Its done best when it solves a left wing problem, with right wing ideas, and vice versa, appealing to all, and letting pragmatism rule the day. As such its a very temporary philisophical union of the left/ right political divide.
(If you want a great critique of Third Way, i recommend "Growth Fetish" By Clive Hamilton. )
Latham though recognises many youth problems and forcoming issues, and though sometimes autocratic (ie inserting garrett into a seat over rank and file) he puts forward many promising democratic and grass roots ideas.
As an example, until a year ago he ran polls on his website, and would often argue a specific way within labor party discussions on an issue depending on the poll results from his electorate. I think thats a promising sign.
How he'll turn out ?, well who knows. I expected him to wait as a shadow minister much longer and let beazley or crean fall this election. But he's chosen to fight for the party and hes certinaly given howard a fright.
Lathams got a lot of potential, and hence i think most coalition voters dont like him, because he represents their parties impending doom. Like an train bearing down on them, their hero's foot stuck in the right hand side track, lathams middle path spells their heros fall. Once this is accepted though, i think many will find they quite like his policies, he's hardly left wing.
For us on the left, he represents a younger generation of politican, at 43 he realise's he's a part of a changing world, and has some ideas about positioning us for these. Despite election motivated steps against gay marriage and heroin trials, once in power you may see some changes, or at least a greater voice to liberal ideals (in the traditional sense, not the cons party*)
Latham knows his history of the labor movement, and believes in its ideals. His stratergies and tools for solving the social problems may often sit on the right, but the goals he desires are ones which will find comfort with many on the left. And he's got ability, and drive.
If nothing else, nows the time to get used to Latham, he's going to be on the scene for a while yet.
(* see thats why you shouldnt vote for the Liberals, theres no more 'liberals' in the Liberal party. Never really was anyway.)
DrShrink
Political Animal Forum
ButrosButros_Grantos
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- Sep 30, 2003
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- 3,399
Pff who cares really, whoever gets in we still get bent over and taken for a tax-payers ride...
BREAKaBEAT
Ex-Bluelighter
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err.. ^^^
I think that the Democrats need to get a new (another ?!) leader and release some damn policies. They also should be more involved in politics at basically any level (federal, state) because they havent been pubically named in god knows how long within a political spectrum (think about the alcoholic leader? Its the only thing that I can relate to the democratics in recent years. ) I too am worried about the parties (labor) ability to function brilliantly at a federal level but there is no way in hell I would vote for a party like Democrats over Labor. A team is a reflection of their leader and if you want to start comparing Andrew Bartlett to Mark Latham... well...
I also have a problem with a party that wouldnt take a strong stance against some of the more important issues. The general Democrats policies tend to be middle of the road and that might not be beneficially for anyone. I think that the Labor party has a better ability to stand strong and make a stance. Also from I can remember he is still a Senator for QLD. A leader and a senator ? Hrmm.
My 1.4 cents.
I think that the Democrats need to get a new (another ?!) leader and release some damn policies. They also should be more involved in politics at basically any level (federal, state) because they havent been pubically named in god knows how long within a political spectrum (think about the alcoholic leader? Its the only thing that I can relate to the democratics in recent years. ) I too am worried about the parties (labor) ability to function brilliantly at a federal level but there is no way in hell I would vote for a party like Democrats over Labor. A team is a reflection of their leader and if you want to start comparing Andrew Bartlett to Mark Latham... well...
I also have a problem with a party that wouldnt take a strong stance against some of the more important issues. The general Democrats policies tend to be middle of the road and that might not be beneficially for anyone. I think that the Labor party has a better ability to stand strong and make a stance. Also from I can remember he is still a Senator for QLD. A leader and a senator ? Hrmm.
My 1.4 cents.
Last edited:
Raving Loony
Bluelighter
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- Jan 21, 2002
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- 3,181
This article says it all about so many of the posters in this thread. ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/06/15/1087244914062.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/06/15/1087244914062.html
The demorats are a good party, but they really dont have a lot of room to move on the politicial spectrum.
Normally the democrats occupied the middle road, they know they are put there to deal, but keep out the real stinkers. Problem is, this governments gone far right, and the democrats last two leaders Despoja and Bartlett are to the left naturally.
But the party recognises its middle road approach and still works with the government on big issues (ala medicare minus package)
Their greatest problem though, is that whilst they try to run down the middle, thats been moved. The liberals and Labor have moved to the right, and so cover the ideological ground the democrats used to use.
All leaving a big space on the left for the greens to stomp into and hog the spotlight.
Australians like having indepndents and minor parties controlling the senate. It makes a government work for its legislation. But they also focus on those in the media spotlight far more than good workers.
So the democrats are left trying to maintain a line they dont always believe in, to do a deal few voters will reward them for, whilst the greens get to do their jig unhindered. Principle is a much better headline grabber than pragmatism. But it doesnt always serve the country so well.
I like the democrats, and having seen them up close at work in the committies i like them even more (including ones like Andrew Murray, a smart guy)
But with polls showing them getting 2% or so to the greens 8%, the democrats are sure to lose a seat or two this election, all that saves them is the fact that only half their senators will go up for re-election this year. A Double Dissalusion election could wipe out the democrats.
DrShrink
Political Animal Forum
Normally the democrats occupied the middle road, they know they are put there to deal, but keep out the real stinkers. Problem is, this governments gone far right, and the democrats last two leaders Despoja and Bartlett are to the left naturally.
But the party recognises its middle road approach and still works with the government on big issues (ala medicare minus package)
Their greatest problem though, is that whilst they try to run down the middle, thats been moved. The liberals and Labor have moved to the right, and so cover the ideological ground the democrats used to use.
All leaving a big space on the left for the greens to stomp into and hog the spotlight.
Australians like having indepndents and minor parties controlling the senate. It makes a government work for its legislation. But they also focus on those in the media spotlight far more than good workers.
So the democrats are left trying to maintain a line they dont always believe in, to do a deal few voters will reward them for, whilst the greens get to do their jig unhindered. Principle is a much better headline grabber than pragmatism. But it doesnt always serve the country so well.
I like the democrats, and having seen them up close at work in the committies i like them even more (including ones like Andrew Murray, a smart guy)
But with polls showing them getting 2% or so to the greens 8%, the democrats are sure to lose a seat or two this election, all that saves them is the fact that only half their senators will go up for re-election this year. A Double Dissalusion election could wipe out the democrats.
DrShrink
Political Animal Forum
Insane Platypus
Bluelighter
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- 753
Meg Lees' selfishness killed the Democrats. I hope she gets turfed out in the upcoming election. I actually thought Natasha was pretty good but the problem was no one took her that seriously because of her age (and gender).
I shall be voting for the Greens in the upper house because I believe the left needs a stronger presence in Canberra with the ALP going centre-right. I live in a blue ribbon Liberal sear so who I vote for in the lower house does not matter.
I shall be voting for the Greens in the upper house because I believe the left needs a stronger presence in Canberra with the ALP going centre-right. I live in a blue ribbon Liberal sear so who I vote for in the lower house does not matter.