RCs why do some drugs disappear?

[uNductFuLStrI]

i don't think there will be any ambiguity, but just in case: this is NOT a request for sources of any kind.

it's just a question that I've been wondering about a lot lately: why do some drugs disappear?

some of my favorite compounds, and I know I'm not alone in that feeling, have basically vanished from circulation. I am thinking 2c-e, 2c-i, 2c-t-7, 4-MMC, MDPV, a-PVP.

note that at least in the last two cases, I am glad that you can't get them any more.

but what I don't really understand is why. they are scheduled drugs nowadays, all around the world, to be sure. but so are heroin, cocaine, meth, etc. and no matter what, authorities are going to be watching out much more vigorously for the big names than the lesser known ones.

they are RCs, mostly, but there are tons of RCs in circulation. most of these are poor knock-offs of the ones mentioned above, and others. the synthesis can't be easier than the ones I mentioned; it can't be any less risky to produce, sell or ship the analogues. I also assume it is many of the same labs that were making the disappeared ones now making the new ones.

a long time ago with another username, when MPDV got scheduled, I worried right here on one of these forums that it would disappear. an older head opined that there were vast quantities of this stuff around the world and that we'd never be able to run out even if we tried.

look i'm glad it disappeared, as I think I would have disappeared if I could still get it. probably not quite so true of those 2c- compounds though.

can anyone explain what's going on? is it possible we'll ever see any of these back in circulation some day?

 

[sekio]

I think it's as simple as the grey-market labs having no legal market anymore. They aren't in the drugmaking business just to make drugs, it's a financial thing I think.

 

[uNductFuLStrI]

i assume it must be mostly financial, but isn't there no longer a legal market for almost all the analogues, including those we do see in circulation? that's part of what I'm not understanding. 4c-a-alpha-bromo-beta-mpdvdp (joke!) is no more legal or illegal to sell or produce than is a-pvp? and certainly than the major schedule 1 drugs. that is, there's no legal market for any of them.

 

[S.J.B.]

If the compounds are scheduled in China (where almost all "research chemicals" are manufactured), the country where vendors are located, or the country where the buyer is located, then there will be serious constraints in supply. Demand has to be much higher for a compound for it to be worth producing and trafficking in the illegal market versus the "research chemical" market given increased risks for all involved.

 

[uNductFuLStrI]

i appreciate these answers and they are mostly what i suspected.

the question has been turned a little bit, from "why do you not see these drugs being sold anymore" to "why isn't anyone producing these drugs anymore."

to go back to that question, i can imagine that for the "minor" 2c psychedelics, the supplies for these dried up relatively quickly. nobody is making them, and there's essentially no supply left, so you can't buy them. that certainly seems to be what happened with the weird and glorious 2c-t-7.

but at least way back when the rumor was that there was a *lot* of MDPV, a-PVP, MCAT & a few others (maybe bk-MBDB?) in supply. do we imagine that's all been used up and/or seized as well?

I had been assuming that China now has analogue laws roughly parallel to those in EU and US, but I'm having trouble confirming that. If they don't, that would help to explain how it can be profitable to research tons of additional cathinone spinoffs, knowing that most will be useless. still a little hard to get my head around though: don't these drugs depend on very similar precursors to the major cathinones, so that doing syntheses for bk-ED-HEX-Pentradrone-97 would carry with it almost as much legal risk as synthesizing MPDV, and with virtually no hope of significant profit? & knowing that if they do stumble on a real winner, it will get outlawed almost immediately? my head kind of hurts trying to think about it. why go to all this trouble at all?

so maybe my original question has this somewhat related corollary: why are people pursuing the synthesis of these very weird cathinone and cannabinoid derivatives (very few of which I've tried, FWIW), when the risk/reward ratio is so poor, & real success just winds you right back at the place (an effective, no-longer-legal RC everybody wants but is too risky to produce & sell) you were trying to get away from?

 

[StigmaShadow]

It could be out there, just have to know the right people. No luck for me through onions yet

 

[stom10]

It's basically whether they get banned in China, India, the Netherlands and/or the whole EU. I'm sure there are smaller chemists making boutique batches, but once you go illegal, it just seems to be more profitable to make traditional drugs of abuse.

edit: And yeah, China doesn't prosecute analogues formally at all. The junk cathinones are perfectly fine to crank out even if they're one step away from something that was just banned. The only exception seems to be with new fentanyl analogues that aren't explicitly banned.

 

[Drag2019]

I know things like 5-MAPB for example disappeared. Within like the last year roughly if I remember correctly it became available again for sale from RC Vendors. When I asked someone about they just said "oh X place used to make and ever since they stopped it hasn't been available again. I think due to legal reasons where places that have either 5-APB/6-APB illegal. Those same places might have 5-MAPB Legal or basically people really like it's unique qualities? Sometimes things just can't be explained though I think.

 

[uNductFuLStrI]

And yeah, China doesn't prosecute analogues formally at all. The junk cathinones are perfectly fine to crank out even if they're one step away from something that was just banned. The only exception seems to be with new fentanyl analogues that aren't explicitly banned.

forgot to log in to check this for months, but I think this answers my question

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I was going to say "because I steal them".

Then I realised what you were getting at...

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Lol I was thinking you were talking about some mysterious elves stealing your drugs.. only to discover your stash was mysteriously taken without your knowing. Those darn elves ate all my oxy again. Now I'm going to be so dopesick!

A good number of drugs are just well--popular. Suburban moms seem to love their xanax and wine while others love the thrill of painkillers. There's no need for a million versions of benzos or opioids. Thus, some versions are deemed as worthy of "treatment" or aka addiction for most of us BL drug eating monsters. It's like natural selection. We don't need 8 million species of koala bear when 2-5 does the trick. I suppose addicts have more push and pull in the pharmaceutical industry than I thought come to think of it. If they don't like the new benzo compound and just insist on eating xanax bars only to ignore the experimental benzos... why bother putting new benzos on the market? The xanax is going to get all the love while the new benzos lose the pharmaceutical industry money. Because that's what the pharma industry is--a monetary business. It doesn't truly care about the greater good of treatments or patients. They lost their soul a while ago lol. I'm sure some pharmaceutical managers are in it for the betterment of patient lives.. but they're now trapped in a system that is ultimately sociopathic and tells us to "eat this drug" while condemning any drug at all. Very conflicting. Am I supposed to not eat the drugs or not? The meaning of life is xanax. The sun orbits around alprazolam. #science