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HR Why do opiates cause apathy?

theedeadmau5

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IMO there are some people that are prone to becoming addicted to drugs and some can try it once and be fine without the next day, i'm assuming that most of us are the former type. having said that, once this "addictive personality" tries a habit forming drug the first time, they will never be the same again. at one point in our lives none of us were addicted to anything and never really thought it could happen to us, unless of course you were born addicted to drugs due to your mother being a worthless piece of shit. so once we tried that first pill or smoked that first joint, our addictive personality took over and decided that we were not normal unless we consumed that drug again. usually the euphoric feeling is what drew us back to drugs, but after a while you have to take more and more just to feel something beyond normalcy. then as more time passes normalcy is all there is, and it is only obtained through your poison. this is why we are here. i would give anything to be able to rewind and stop myself from taking that first pill, but i can't and neither can you, so we cruise.

and that is where i think the confusion about being energetic/lethargic lies. the human body was not designed to include opiates or any drug for that matter to operate correctly. but that went out the window after the first pill. synaptic plasticity on the brain caused by your poison makes a normal brain(the latter from above) feel high and a high brain(the former from above/us) feel normal.

so in answering the OP's question, you aren't feeling real apathy, it's just a by-product of your poison.
 

infectedmushroom

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The short answer is because it makes you feel good. The longer answer is that it depends on the individual. I'm a naturally apathetic, anhedonic individual, so opiates don't make me more so. They make me depressed sometimes, and that has an element of apathy, but I can tell the difference between apathy and depression in myself, I think...
 

Pill__Head

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Aug 26, 2013
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they seem to just minic the bodies natural selection of "feel good, happy, help axiety, make EVERYTHING in the world ALL GOOD man... ya know? so nothing else really matters to them expect that substace all the ""feel good" substances to make them happy nd eventaully that ALL they need/willwant in life, because why? it make me happy and for that time period all your worries and problem in you life just don even exist.. you simply at total peace and hopefuly totally spetacular Euphoria. What else could you possible want more...? I dont know... pssh you tell me..
 

Erikmen

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Hello to all,
On Methadone for many years sober basically since 8 years ago. Had a "small" relapse when I took Oxys during a week or so, enough to break through my Methadone blockage. Had to get back to the program quite quickly and did it successfully, however, I am really f..ing sad, withdraw has been over for same time now, but it seems that I cannot put myself in a position to get back to work. I have not yet recuperated myself. Feel bad all the time, plus have an insane sense of apathy for over 3 weeks now. Does this get better? Any advices? I need to go back to work but my lack of energy surprises me..
 

OpSessed

Greenlighter
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May 7, 2010
Messages
29
They don't...for me.

I've always considered them the working-man's drug.
Fuck some amphetamines, they'd have me edgy, paranoid, tight muscles=even more back pain, grinding teeth, starving myself, poor quality of sleep..uh uh no siree you can keep that shit.
Opiates on the other hand, feel incredibly natural, give me energy (probably because they relieve pain which leads to less apathy, for me personally. Pain yields apathy IME.), yet also keep me feeling rather, well, normal. I don't get in such a rush when working, nor frustrated when I get stumped.

**ALSO, idk if anybody else has noticed this, but when I take even very high doses of opiates, I often don't notice much effect UNTIL I actually sit down in my recliner. Especially if you're working or socializing or something, the drugs are really in the background, but once you sit down in your desired place of relaxation, it's so easy to relax while tiny waves of euphoria lap gently at the shore of your mind.**

*id like some feedback on that whether other folks notice your dose when youre really busy? Like I said I can tell it's working for pain while working, but don't get much euphoric or "numbing" sensation as if I were relaxing sitting down..In fact if I didn't talk so much on pain meds, i'd probably forget I took anything at all..just very normal feeling.
Hello,
I don't post a lot but love reading on here. Because you asked for feedback, I'd like to share. Not the place for long introductions, so I'll keep it short. I had a 5 year 60-80 mg per day oxycodone habit. When I was unable to get any more, I was eventually able to get hydrocone. They gave me an awful stomach ache headache and made me drowsy and bitchy. Exactly the opposite of oxycodone. Also, the euphoria and energy wasn't even comparable to oxycodone. I've continued to take them over the last 8 or so years because it DID take the edge of my anxiety as well as stopped the suicide inducing restless legs. Over time I've become used to the hydrocodone and it works as good for energy and motivation, social anxiety and about half as well and half as long for my pain. It even cures me when I get the blues.
I become a happy, energetic chatterbox, and yes everyone who knows me well knows when I medicate as well as when I run out.
When I run out I hate everything and everyone including myself. He'll, my husband knows when I'm "almost" out. He still hasn't learned not to EVER call me out on that. Silly, silly man
 

Corazon

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May 20, 2013
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Having tried opiates for pain and poor health, I found myself incredibly productive on them at first. I loved the euphoria, but the whole point was that I wanted to be able to do more. I felt normal and my body was capable of tackling a full day, even if it required standing and walking. I did a million things every day for the first few weeks. Unfortunately tolerance and addiction followed. Eventually I wasn't comfortable for very long after my dose/in the morning/etc.., and the doses that I felt I "needed" to satisfy the tolerance and addiction were growing and eventually began to make me more sedated.
It would seem that the heavier the usage/ roa/ addiction, that the more likely the user would just want to nod in bliss, as opposed to being overly productive or social.
 

OpSessed

Greenlighter
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May 7, 2010
Messages
29
I know what you mean Corazon. Especially about the tolerance. The first time I tried it I took 1/2 of a 5 mg pill and spent the next 4 hours happily cleaning my house. (For the record I hate cleaning. Especially with no meds)
I can't remember exactly how long it took to go from 2.5 mg per/day to 80 mg per day but I became addicted very quickly. My ex husband was sharing his scripts with me and had a very generous doctor, so I got the ex to over time ask the doctor for more and more until the script was for 2-10/325mg pills every 4 hours around the clock. For years.
Tolerance is a bitch
 

Erikmen

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When I take Oxys, enough to break through my Methadone dosage blockage, I would normally take over 200 mg every 4 hours and that was enough to get my eyes pupils pin point and my mind elsewhere, like a dream or something. I could work and function normally but it was obvious that I was out somewhere.
That plus the euphoric feeling made me productive, caring and that place is where I always want to be. Now that I´m off, and on Methadone, world is different like black and white. Nothing fits.
But harm reduction is the goal, and not being young anymore, I feel I´m sentenced, so to say. It´s the only way I can perform my duties as a responsible parent, working and all.
 
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theedeadmau5

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east coast
so i think the verdict is that opiates are sort of a double-edged sword. at first the effects are great, but then you can't live without it, literally. kinda makes you want to rewind and NOT take that first pill lol.
 

OpSessed

Greenlighter
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
29
so i think the verdict is that opiates are sort of a double-edged sword. at first the effects are great, but then you can't live without it, literally. kinda makes you want to rewind and NOT take that first pill lol.
Exactly. I took my first pill sometime in 2000/2001 and even when I'm clean for a few weeks to a couple of months, not a day goes by that I don't wish I had "just one!" And I dream about pills almost every night during those times too.
 

Boupstarnm

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Aug 19, 2011
Messages
443
If you're on methadone, suboxone or long term pain management and you're a dude get your testosterone levels checked. I've been on and off suboxone for nearly a decade. I didn't realize how bad I was until I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Now I'm less anxious, more confident and life seems manageable (even though it's a disaster). If you've got a type of weird depression/anxiety/laziness definitely check it out.

Low testosterone=apathy.
 

rave_itsrealfun!!!

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Well I'm picking up a 5mg day oxycodone IR habit... so far I notice increased energy, motivation, sociability, happiness, ability to concentrate, and reduction in chronic pain... and cravings on days when I do not use. I suffer from excruciating chronic pain in my spine which is the main reason why I am so interested in doing this, and why it's happened so fast. But I was addicted to weed for so long and then one day I couldn't smoke weed anymore because I started getting panic attacks and then when I quit the panic attacks became a 24/7 ordeal and it's been a year of torture and agony. I am prone to addiction due to this history of abuse, I was ripping maybe 50 bong hits a day + a lot of oil dabs. My panic disorder came about due to a combination of the stress from the injury to my back and how it ruined my life in so many ways, and also I have always been prone to anxiety while abusing cannabis, occasionally getting panic attacks when smoking too much weed.

One day I just started using opioids because I thought it might help me cut back on the benzos - and they do but I'm still using those godawful benzos - I haven't taken too many days off but then again it's never more than 5mg of the oxy per day.

I have chronic pain that I can't handle anymore, I've been suffering too long. My life as a sober individual consists of 24/7 chronic, extreme panic attacks and I would off myself in that condition. I can't handle the severity of the attacks, they ROCK my body each and every day - until I picked up a benzo habit that is. I cannot handle them it is out of the question to face those physiological symptoms of my adrenaline going haywire. I just can't face it, not for 10 seconds. After having hundreds to thousands of full blown panic attacks, I've thrown in the towel. There's no point in suffering like that and I really don't think it's good for the heart.

I want off the benzos, but I just don't see it happening. I can't even walk without them, I'm bedridden. They are skeletal muscle relaxants which work to help to relieve my chronic agony. I have no idea if larger doses of opioids could be an effective treatment for severe panic attacks and extreme anxiety. Then I could stop using the fucking benzos and accept life as a full blown opioid addict, maybe switching back and forth between the two.

I feel like I'm slowly getting addicted to oxycodone, but I don't know what else to do. I really, really like oxycodone - in other words, I really like to function as the ideal version of myself, which is impossible without drugs now because I hurt my back and I fried my brain. In regards to the benzos, I'm already fucked. It's been four months of constant use. All of this is a last resort, I just can't handle the fucking suffering anymore of the chronic pain and the never-ending panic attacks.

So 5mg of oxycodone with a couple mg of xanax and 4mg of etizolam, or no benzos at all and something like 30mg a day... either way I'm fucked. And I'll NEVER go back to the way things were before, I'd choose death over that miserable agony of hell. Nothing else works either... I tried a great many more reasonable alternatives but I seem to have had a complete mental breakdown.

There's no need to make fun of me or joke about how fucked up my head is, it's really not funny. It's kind of sad, I just want to be normal ever since I quit weed after having the mental breakdown and triggering panic disorder when I was smoking way too much and going through the agony of the chronic pain and I just can't get back to the normal guy I used to be. I miss those days, when I was just your average pothead, and I was fucking ripped to shreds, I was a total gym rat like it was everything to me... before I hurt my fucking spine and everything went to shit...

It's not like I'm a pussy either, I consider myself very strong minded. But seriously guys, chronic pain in the thoracic region of my spine? For over two fucking years? Just because of a fucking accident doing squats in the gym? I can't even go swimming, I can't hit the gym anymore, I used to run 10km like it was going for a fucking walk, but I cannot even go for a light jog now. If I do any of those, I will be bedridden for days. I used to be really into yoga too, but I am very limited in the asanas I can do now. I used to go for 200km bicycle rides, now I am limited to 30km a day max and it's the only type of exercise I can handle at all. I used to be so physically active, I'm sedentary now. Even having sex takes a lot out of me, it's emasculating and after two fucking years of no help at all from the doctors, I'm picking up the oxycodone habit because I think it will improve my life, due to how miserable it is to begin with.

When I take my oxycodone, I am able to get a lot more physical exercise. 30km of biking a day is enjoyable and I don't have to worry about lying down in pain after.

I'm FINALLY seeing chronic pain specialist, took FUCKING TWO YEARS to get a referral to the chronic pain clinic... idiotic doctors I went back again and again telling them something wasn't right with me at T12... hopefully this doctor who focusses on back problems will be able to help me but I highly doubt it. The pain is never going to go away, and if I can't function in pain, then I probably have good reason to pick up an opioid habit for the rest of my life.
 
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Erikmen

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If you're on methadone, suboxone or long term pain management and you're a dude get your testosterone levels checked. I've been on and off suboxone for nearly a decade. I didn't realize how bad I was until I started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Now I'm less anxious, more confident and life seems manageable (even though it's a disaster). If you've got a type of weird depression/anxiety/laziness definitely check it out.

Low testosterone=apathy.
Have been on opiates for too long and you are right I am very low and depressed, no energy, for ages now.
This is probably the reason for which I always try to get Methadone aligned with Oxys so I feel better, but according to what you are saying this could actually make it even worse.
Not to mention the fact that I sort of relapse every time.
Thanks for the good info.
 

Erikmen

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Yes and no. Different benzos should apply for different opiates.
 

rave_itsrealfun!!!

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I'm interested in this too, if you read my above post I am picking up a 5mg oxycodone IR habit.

I have been on about 1mg of xanax a day, 4mg etizolam a day at the very least for the past four months... sometimes more. In other words, I'm completely fucked and I'm trying to cut back. I have horrifically bad panic disorder though which makes it damn near impossible. I don't respond to any treatments and went to this as a last resort, my disorder is far too severe to be able to handle. I couldn't handle being my sober self for more than 10 seconds. After hundreds if not thousands of full blown panic attacks, my heart just can't take it anymore I wouldn't live long.

I don't just need to know if opioids are good for benzo withdrawal. I need to know if higher doses than 5mg oxy IR a day is going to be enough to quell extreme physical anxiety symptoms and horrific, 24/7 panic attacks. If so, then I will consider myself a budding full blown oxycodone addict because I need to get the fuck off these benzos and if there's anything in the world that can do it for me, it's these opioids.

I know I'm sort of ranting in these posts, but I am a suffering human being. I experience chronic pain that leaves me bedridden unless I am on opioids, and I experience crippling anxiety that makes me feel like I am having a heart attack if I am not on benzos. It seems like I have to be on both, but I'd definitely feel safer going with the opioids. I just don't think they are powerful enough to quell my extreme anxiety; they are more effective for chronic pain.
 

Rybee

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Oddly enough, I experience the complete opposite with most opiates tbh. Other than Morphine, which I find quite sedating.
 

Erikmen

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Rave, be careful with Xanax. If you are taking it for a long time, it´s gonna be progressively more difficult to stop. Same applies for Oxycodone. You can take an increased dosage and try to stay off for 72 hours every time. That will protect you, specially when it comes to withdraw.
Now with Xanax just try to take less every 10 days, just half or a quarter of a tablet less in every 10 days or so. There are meds for panic, that symptom alone should not stop you from having a smaller dose.
Best of luck!
 
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Erikmen

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Oddly enough, I experience the complete opposite with most opiates tbh. Other than Morphine, which I find quite sedating.
In larger dosages it could be sedating. It would all depend on your tolerance. And whether you IV or parachute.
If one uses Methadone or Oxys, for instance, then morphine can be incredible low to become sedated.
 

rave_itsrealfun!!!

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I am well aware of the dependency issue with benzos, and I am also well aware of the risk of opioid addiction.

Why would I use a bigger dose of oxycodone than usual every 3 days? That's just going to get me high, and I don't want that. I develop problems with stuff that gets me high. I use low doses for the relief of chronic pain, and I require this every day in order to live without suffering in agony.

I had a psychotic break last year from smoking far too much weed for way too long, that weed issue never made any sense and I won't get into it. But it was a horrific devil in my life. I will never be the same. I got horrible side effects from weed ever since day 1, and there was no medical reason to use it. I was also under insane, insane stress due to chronic pain so weed wasn't the sole culprit. My body simply does not function without benzos since I quit. Adrenaline rushes to my heart, and I feel like I am dying 24/7. There is nothing I can do about it because I fried my brain. I have tried anti-psychotics, SSRI's, you name it - I am more comfortable sticking with my xanax and etizolam. I am unwilling to go back to the way things were before benzos because I was turning into an alcoholic and showing up at the ER begging for mercy with my heart pounding out of my chest. I haven't had a drink since, and my heart rate doesn't spiral out of control anymore to the extent that I am crippled and ROCKED by it and not only was I getting no enjoyment out of life but the suffering was a relentless beast. I feel better now.

I have been suffering from excruciating chronic pain in my spine for many years. For a lot of this time, I have been bedridden unable to go for a fucking WALK and I am in my 20's. I used to be an athlete, I lived for countless sports and outdoors activities and workouts that I have had to give up completely. I am going to take 5mg of oxycodone every day to get some relief, and there's no shame in that. I couldn't give a fuck less about getting hooked because I am unwilling to suffer in agony anymore, the pain is unfathomable. And 5mg oxy wouldn't be enough to treat such severe pain, but as skeletal muscle relaxants the benzos really help me keep physically active as well. To such a degree that I don't see myself getting off them... anti-inflammatories, muscle relaxants that shit does nothing.

I'm not using these drugs for fun and games, that's for sure. If I get hooked (and I already am) but the effects are allowing me to live a normal life, then so be it. What I am trying to do is take the lowest doses possible that I can manage. It's not like I'm all fuckin high like I used to be on the dope, smoking bong rips and oil dabs pointlessly from morning til night chasing a goofy high that turned me into a dumbass... just a total burnout... I have my shit together now. If you cannot sympathize with why I am using these drugs (self medicating, not for the sake of getting high mind you and doing my best to suffer without drugs as much as I can handle) then I guess you do not understand the severity of the symptoms, the extent of the crippling effect and the agony of my physical and psychological ailments and that I turned to benzos and eventually opioids as a last resort.
 
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