Stimulants Why do Amps sometimes make me tired and sometimes wake me up?

[Mycophile]

So I've been experiencing this for years, at first with 2.5mg--5mg Dexadrine pills mixed with caffeine, and now with both Adderall 5mg which I was first prescribed, and now 20 mg Vyvanse.

Here's a very quick abstract which I wanted to see if was an explanation of what I am experiencing:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/002221947600900312


So basically, if I sleep like shit or I'm really really tired, than it's almost a guarantee that Dexadrine or Adderall will make me feel good and awake like it should (probably Vyvanse too but today was my first day) but if I'm NOT really tired, then it usually results in me feeling MORE tired and shitty, and all around crappy, and once the drug wears off I feel better.

I've noticed that MOST DEFINITELY this effect of feeling worse from taking an Amp if NOT tired to begin with is then amplified if I drink too much coffee with it (hence more stimulated so = More SEDATION???).


Lets take today as an example, and I'll break this off into parts to make it easier to follow LOL:


Today was my 2nd day of Kratom WD and it only lasts for 4-5 days for me but day 2 is always the worst, and the worst effect I get from it is EXTREME SEDATION, so I figured that Amps could help with this, and I have found, that the strategy is hit or miss, sometimes it masks the Kratom WD sedation very well, sometimes very poorly and I feel worse.

Part 1: So, I had taken Adderall yesterday so I don't even know how my 1st day of Kratom WD would have been without it, but knowing today would be worst, I slept till 11:30 (didn't have much to do) woke up and popped a Vyvanse (I knew it would take 1 hour to kick in), so set my alarm to 12:30. I ate a 300 calorie energy bar so I wouldn't be on an empty stomach, (when I took the Vyvanse, before I woke up the 2nd time)...then as is customary with me, I drank 2 cups of coffee by my bed before getting out.

IMMEDIATELY I notice EXTREME energy as you'd expect....BUT...it lasted about 10 minutes--15 MAX....before I even got out of bed I'd crashed and was feeling tired as shit. I figured I just didn't have enough food in my stomach with 2 cups of coffee and Vyvanse and that could account for it, so I eat a bowl of yogurt, but felt no better after it digested.

I had a 3rd cup of caffeine (tea)....felt no better.

Part 2: Went to class, then when I got their I had a bottle of sugary tea....THEN started to feel better....drank another 2 cups of coffee...STILL better....but still feeling mildly shitty, but WAY better than before, at least knowing the Vyvanse is doing SOMETHING.

At this point...I chalked it up to 2 things 1) the initial crash yes, having to do with not having enough food in my stomach before the 2 cups of coffee and the Vyvanse.....then the later stimulation from MORE caffeine...somehow meaning my body had reached a homeostasis....and the reason the coffee made me feel better combined with the Vyvanse is that the Kratom Withdrawal was REALLY kicking my ass, and the sedation was just too strong for the Vyvanse even with the coffee.

So class ends, and I start feeling tired again, and I know the Vyvanse is wearing off.

Part 3: Since I know the Vyvanse has worn off, I figure it's safe to take 5mgs of Adderall and drink half a cup of coffee to do an experiment, figuring that most likely I'd feel WORSE and regret it.

But NO...THIS TIME, the Adderall kicks in, and of course I am not feeling 100% as I am still in Kratom WD...but the symptoms of the Kratom WD are about 65% masked....and I feel that generally the medication is doing what it should, getting the impression if I'd taken another 5mgs of Adderall I'd mask the Kratom WD about 85%, but I'm not going to do that cause I want to feel asleep when it wears of.

Now I've been on this Adderall dose about an hour and a half, and so I'm in the peak and it'll wear off in about 2 1/2 hours, and I'm like "FINALLY...now THIS is how Amphetamine is SUPPOSED to work...AND WAKE ME UP!!" I mean sure, I'm still kinda tired from the Kratom WD, but not bad, and it at least MOSTLY working is enough to ask for in terms of relief.


SO WHAT'S THE DEAL!!!!!


Vyvanse and Adderall are pretty similar, yes, I know the chemical differences, and I've done the same thing with Dexadrine, they are all basically Dex, so why about 50% of the time I take Amps do I feel WORSE and MORE tired, and about 50% of the time they do what they should and I feel GOOD!??!!

Why did I feel a HUGE surge of energy from the coffee and Vyvanse, then SUDDEN crash....slowly coming back to energy but not enough later....and THEN when I switched to Adderall I'm feeling fine?!?!

Why do I have about a 90% success rate that these stimulants will work for me if I have slept like shit....but like a 30% success rate that they will work if I haven't??

Why, if I sometimes drink too much coffee on a stimulant, will I feel MORE tired??

How, all in the same day, while in the same amount of Kratom WD, can similar doses of Amp (5mg Add is probably a bit less than 20mg Vyvanse I guess....) make me feel both TERRIBLE and GOOD??!!

I swear, it's like my body KNOWS if I need the drug or not, and if I'm not tired enough, my body just goes:

"NO NO, you aren't tired, now this amp is going to make you regret it and make you MORE tired"....but if my body KNOWS I'm tired...it's like "Ok, I'll work for you"???

Is this in fact what is occurring?

Is this why sometimes too much coffee on an amp makes me feel LESS awake?

But yet, I'd already drank MORE coffee and had MORE in my system today by the time the Adderall started doing it's job so what gives??


(Also, I am on about 2.5mgs of Klonopin a day and take 40mgs of Lexapro for background info, and I drink about 6-8.5 cups of coffee a day...Yes..TOO MUCH).


Most of all: how can I predict when it is and isn't a good idea to take Vyvanse/Adderall/Dex and how can I be more sure to get the effects I want and feel properly stimulated??

I don't use them recreationally really, I use them to feel better when I feel like shit, but they are so hit and miss for me.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[lunchbox333]

well, the klonopin and the kratom withdrawals and all that definitely are all a factor......I'm not too surprised that you might get lethargic even on stims during a withdrawal. one time I took MDMA during a GABAergic withdrawal and it SUCKED....
I was definitely UNDER the effects of it, dilated pupils and all that, but felt absolutely god awful and sluggish, didn't want to move and just overall terrible. that god awful skin burning from gaba recovery was just intensified, and it actually left me very jittery and amped up for the majority of the next day (and it was CLEAN Molly too....)...

also another scenario: I seem to be one of the people who get the paradoxical effect from adderall and the likes, I was scripted it for ADHD as a child and would literally go home and fall asleep right after school every day. it didn't make me more attentive, it didn't make me more focused, but it WAS successful is making me stop distracting other kids in class because I was just so lethargic.

sometimes it does wake me up though, recently I've been going through gabapentin withdrawals and adderall SUPRISINGLY helps, it turns that annoying anxious tingle and synergies it perfectly with that attention lift. but still I don't get truly stimulated in the sense of it, just sometimes more alert than others. sometimes I nod out and start passing out a little in the first hour or two of the effects.

basically : FWIW, YMMV ...using it for your purpose can prove difficult because, as I've learned from experience, stimulants are risky to use as withdrawal aid because its SUCH a thin line between enough stimulation to tolerate and wake up and overstimulation throwing your already unbalanced brain into a crazy shit show. it really has to be the right situation, you have to be in the perfect amount of withdrawals, and some factors are just not in your control. if you were using adderall at any other time in life, at baseline without withdrawals your results would be a lot more uniform I believe.

 

[Mycophile]

well, the klonopin and the kratom withdrawals and all that definitely are all a factor......I'm not too surprised that you might get lethargic even on stims during a withdrawal. one time I took MDMA during a GABAergic withdrawal and it SUCKED....
I was definitely UNDER the effects of it, dilated pupils and all that, but felt absolutely god awful and sluggish, didn't want to move and just overall terrible. that god awful skin burning from gaba recovery was just intensified, and it actually left me very jittery and amped up for the majority of the next day (and it was CLEAN Molly too....)...

also another scenario: I seem to be one of the people who get the paradoxical effect from adderall and the likes, I was scripted it for ADHD as a child and would literally go home and fall asleep right after school every day. it didn't make me more attentive, it didn't make me more focused, but it WAS successful is making me stop distracting other kids in class because I was just so lethargic.

sometimes it does wake me up though, recently I've been going through gabapentin withdrawals and adderall SUPRISINGLY helps, it turns that annoying anxious tingle and synergies it perfectly with that attention lift. but still I don't get truly stimulated in the sense of it, just sometimes more alert than others. sometimes I nod out and start passing out a little in the first hour or two of the effects.

basically : FWIW, YMMV ...using it for your purpose can prove difficult because, as I've learned from experience, stimulants are risky to use as withdrawal aid because its SUCH a thin line between enough stimulation to tolerate and wake up and overstimulation throwing your already unbalanced brain into a crazy shit show. it really has to be the right situation, you have to be in the perfect amount of withdrawals, and some factors are just not in your control. if you were using adderall at any other time in life, at baseline without withdrawals your results would be a lot more uniform I believe.

Yeah man but seriously, of all the times this problem has probably happened, probably close to 100 times over the years, I have NOT been in Kratom WD so while TODAY that was probably a factor, there have been TONS of times that I have taken it when not in any kind of withdrawal from anything and it's made me MORE tired, and other times it's worked perfectly (also, again, when I took the dose of Adderall after the Vyvanse wore off I was STILL in WD...)

The only common factors I've ever seen are these:

1) If I'm REALLY tired and slept like 3 hours or less there's probably like a 90% chance they will work and I'll feel happy and stimulated

2) If I've slept pretty well there's a MUCH worse chance it will work and if I take it I might get MORE tired

3) If I am on a good dose of stimulant but I've only had like a couple cups of coffee with it I might feel pretty good, but if I have like another 2 cups I can SUDDENLY GET VERY TIRED.


These factors have occurred over and over again with Dexedrine in doses of 2.5--5mgs, while on nothing other than Klonopin and Lexapro and the Klonopin usually does NOT make me tired, and caffeine.

I don't think the Klonopin is probably much of a factor, I mean I do have it constantly in my blood stream daily, but I take about 2mgs which isn't THAT much, and I don't see how I'd be MORE tired on Dex and Klonopin than JUST Klonopin...makes no sense.

Some people say you shouldn't take Amps on SSRIs as there is a mild to moderate chance of interaction/serotonin syndrome, but my Psych told me that it's not a big risk, and I don't believe that's what's going on.

All it ever seems to be, is that somehow my body has to figure out the PERFECT level of stimulation between how much I've slept, how much amp I've taken, and how much coffee I've drank.

It's like my body is keeping tabs on these things, and if I go too far in one direction, like drinking too much coffee on Amps, I can either panic (which is normal and has happened before...) but more likely, I'll get tired, whereas if I had a little less coffee, I might be fine.

But that's if I HAVE slept well.

Consistently, if I have slept like shit, like 4 hours or less, I can take 5mgs of Dex/Add (it's a low dose, but it works for me), and as many cups of coffee as I want, and I'll feel good and stimulated.

If I get a good night's sleep that night, wake up and do the same thing, I feel like shit.

I really have a firm belief that stimulants work better for me when tired, (some people say THE OPPOSITE, that if TOO tired they don't work for them...and I know that can happen, but that would be like 2 or more days without sleep).....and that if I put TOO much stimulant in my body and/or have slept well, my body knows I don't need the stimulant, and responds by making me MORE tired.

I would really like to know if this is something anyone else can explain, and there's any way I can increase the likelihood of getting the effects I want and/or, avoiding taking it at the wrong times that will make me tired, and knowing when I am likely to experience a good effect from it.

I am running these experiments on myself, and I've figure these certain things out yet, and yet, it's still pretty unpredictable.

There's a lot of VERY knowledgable people on here, and I'm betting someone here knows what this is and how I can achieve better effects, and probably some other people who have experienced it as well.

I'm also wondering how I can know if the 20mg dose of Vyvanse I'm on is too low or too high or just right??

How can I figure these things out if sometimes the Amps work and sometimes they do the exact opposite??

 

[Mycophile]

See, so you are kind of like me in that sometimes it works for you.

So under what conditions is it more likely to wake you up, and under what conditions does it make you lethargic?

The first time I ever took Dexadrine, at age 14, I didn't drink coffee or soda, and was completely drug naive, and a few times I took a mere 2.5mgs, and it made me too speedy and I wanted off of it, and at that point I think I was on Prozac and nothing else.

So my first ever experience was it speeding me up when I was as close to baseline as I'll ever get.

It has varied over and over throughout the years, and every factor, how much I've slept, how much I've eaten, my dose, how much coffee I've had, they all seem to play some role, but it's like a mathematical equation I can't solve, beyond knowing that it will probably work if I've slept like shit, and probably won't if I have slept well, and also that if I HAVE slept well, the more coffee I drink with it the more shitty and tired I'll feel (or speedy but that makes sense)...but if I slept like shit, if I take a normal dose of Amp I can drink as much coffee as I want and it will only increase the euphoria.

 

[lunchbox333]

Yeah man but seriously, of the problem close to 100 times this has happened over the years I have NOT been in Kratom WD so while TODAY that was probably a factor, there have been TONS of times that I have taken it when not in any kind of withdrawal from anything and it's made me MORE tired, and other times it's worked perfectly.

okay I misread then, my b.....

The only common factors I've ever seen are these:

1) If I'm REALLY tired and slept like 3 hours or less there's probably like a 90% chance they will work

2) If I've slept pretty well there's a MUCH worse chance it will work and if I take it I might get MORE tired

3) If I am on a good dose of stimulant but I've only had like a couple cups of coffee with it I might feel pretty good, but if I have like another 2 cups I can SUDDENLY GET VERY TIRED.

okay well like I said there are factors at play that you aren't exactly in control of, so nail down as many as you CAN control like taking it when you feel tired vs rested and etc. don't drink more than a cup of coffee, not sure what to say about that. if you can get atleast some of the factors you cCAN control down, then the other factors might be more obvious and noticeable, or at least less frequent.

These factors have occurred over and over again with Dexedrine in doses of 2.5--5mgs, while on nothing other than Klonopin and Lexapro and the Klonopin usually does NOT make me tired, and caffeine.

I don't think the Klonopin is probably much of a factor, I mean I do have it constantly in my blood stream daily, but I take about 2mgs which isn't THAT much, and I don't see how I'd be MORE tired on Dex and Klonopin than JUST Klonopin...makes no sense.

I just the other day read in another forum of people who swear by the combo of klonopin and adderall for social situations and etc.

Some people say you shouldn't take Amps on SSRIs as there is a mild to moderate chance of interaction/serotonin syndrome, but my Psych told me that it's not a big risk, and I don't believe that's what's going on.

id bargain this as a majority of the reason you're experiencing what you are.

All it ever seems to be, is that somehow my body has to figure out the PERFECT level of stimulation between how much I've slept, how much amp I've taken, and how much coffee I've drank.

It's like my body is keeping tabs on these things, and if I go too far in one direction, like drinking too much coffee on Amps, I can either panic (which is normal and has happened before...) but more likely, I'll get tired, whereas if I had a little less coffee, I might be fine.

But that's if I HAVE slept well.

crazy, almost like it has a mind of its own

I really have a firm belief that stimulants work better for me when tired, (some people say THE OPPOSITE, that if TOO tired they don't work for them...and I know that can happen, but that would be like 2 or more days without sleep).....and that if I put TOO much stimulant in my body and/or have slept well, my body knows I don't need the stimulant, and responds by making me MORE tired..

well that would make sense to me, opiates for example are more fun after an intense work out and benzos are normally only really euphoric or pleasurable to people who have anxiety issues. in the same way I could see amps working and feeling much better taken when tired and exhausted.

How can I figure these things out if sometimes the Amps work and sometimes they do the exact opposite??.

I can't really give you the answer you're looking for but I think having another medication besides amps you could use to help the wd symptoms you're experiencing now and in general for your use would be wise. maybe some phenibut or gabapentin, would be particularly helpful during the withdrawal, you need to depend on something that is more consistent, amps help but they aren't a panacea. that way you aren't trying to force the amp to work in situations where It probably wouldn't and can take them more sporadically when you have a good feeling that they will give you the effect youre looking for.

 

[Mycophile]

No offense bro, but if my Doctor said taking 40mgs of Lexapro should pose no issue with any of these (Vyvanse/Adderall/Dex), then why would you assume that's the issue?

Why would there be so many times it WOULD work when I'm on the same dose of SSRI?

Were you on SSRIs when Amps made you lethargic?

Cause if not, then at least there could be other issues at play.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I'd like it if other forums members would way in.

That would bother me since I NEED my SSRI and bad things happen to me without it.

Sure, I could try to find other comfort meds for Kratom WD, but I can't find Gabapentin now, I have Phenibut but it doesn't help much...my issue with Kratom WD is it makes me so tired I can't do shit, so I generally need something to wake me up to help with that, but USUALLY I don't use Amps for that cause I am good at avoiding Kratom WD by spacing out my doses, it only happens SOMETIMES.

Sure, I can nail down as many factors as I want, and generally I do avoid taking it unless I'm really tired cause I know that's when it works best, but there are times i am somewhat tired and I want it, and then it won't work.

I can try to drink less coffee, believe it or not...as weird as it seems, I plan to use my Vyvanse and Add to quit coffee soon as I hate what coffee does to me....and it has worked many times to break my caffeine dependence WITHOUT becoming dependent on the amp either and being good and sober and my energy levels return to normal, and I think I could expect that when that happens the amps might have more consistent results without that extra factor of the caffeine in there.

That still doesn't mean I don't want to find a way to figure out WHY this happens.

You know...like, just because I want the answer at the very least, and at the most, it might let me know what else to try.

Why do you think it's the fact that I take 40mgs of Lexapro?

What evidence do you have to support that it could make me tired on Lexapro, and other times not?

Also, this same thing has occurred from taking too much Prolintane once or twice (a pretty cool stimulant that is hard to find...took too much and got dizzy and tired).

It seems that too much stimulant often makes me tired, yet 2 weeks ago I took too much Adderall and had a panic attack from too much stimulation and was SUPER stimulated...so then again...not always.

I got worried too cause on the Vyvanse pamphlet it says "Call your doctor IMMEDIATELY if you get any of the following....and one of them was "severe tiredness"...that scared me, but then again, I think they may mean worse than what I got, I mean it's happened plenty of times and I'm always fine, and those pamphlets always make things sound SUPER extreme, so is this something to be worried about?? I kind of think it's not really......

I'd like to know what you have to support your theory that the Lexapro causes it, cause 1) that would make me upset so I hope you are wrong LOL 2) my doctor said it's not an issue, and I kind of trust him on that.

 

[Mycophile]

See, I found this, but this doesn't really seem like my situation:

Here they are talking about true amphetamine BINGES for days...sure, I get why that makes you tired.

My situation is not binging AT ALL...it's low dose Amphetamine, either 2.5--5mg Dexadrine/Adderall or 20mgs Vyvanse, but yes, usually with a shit ton of coffee, some Klonopin, and 40mgs Lexapro, which again, my doctor said was no issue.

People are prescribed Amps and SSRIS All the time with no issue.

Could it be that high dose caffeine use also effects dopamine??

Cause I STRONGLY believe the caffeine is a BIG issue...yet this morning...TWO cups and 20mgs Vyvanse made me tired...that's not a lot....I had only had one energy bar so that could fuck with it...but you'd think after eating a big bowl of yogurt I'd have felt better....but no.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-amphetamine-fatigue

 

[Mycophile]

Ok, this is interesting...I can't tell if it is what is causing it in me, but it seems likely, because they say that if your heart gets going too fast you can get tired, and this DOES occur to me with too much coffee only, but usually only during hard exercise periods like when doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and I don't get SLEEPY, but I gas out and my arms and legs get heavy and I sometimes have to stop, whereas when not drinking coffee I have much more energy, hence why I want to quit.

I think that whatever is being discussed in this thread could be what is going on with me, but I STILL don't get it.

It still seems to support the "too much stimulation = sedation" theory, but beyond that, I am no scientist, so I don't fully get this.


Anyone with more knowledge wanna maybe chime in tomorrow?

I'm gonna crash soon.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/1gip5k/solving_excessive_sleepiness_on_adderall/

 

[Mycophile]

Shit, I hope this isn't the case for...maybe it is the Lexapro, but I'm no doctor.

They said in that thread that certain medications effect the CYP2D6 enzyme, and Lexapro is a WEAK inducer...so at least not strong.

Plus, they say something about Pro Drugs, and Vyvanse is a pro drug, but Dex isn't....I don't know, I don't think most of us here know these answers.

It's easy to go "THAT'S IT!! It's the Lexapro!!" But really, most of us, myself included, don't know shit.

There are some very knowledgable people here though...I can't stop my Lexapro, so I hope I can just nail down more factors involved and get my amps to work more regularly for me:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP2D6

 

[lunchbox333]

No offense bro, but if my Doctor said taking 40mgs of Lexapro should pose no issue with any of these (Vyvanse/Adderall/Dex), then why would you assume that's the issue?

Why would there be so many times it WOULD work when I'm on the same dose of SSRI?

Were you on SSRIs when Amps made you lethargic?

Cause if not, then at least there could be other issues at play.

That would bother me since I NEED my SSRI and bad things happen to me without it.

first of all, I'm definitely not a doctor, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, not as replacement for medical advice. but also you shouldn't just blindly trust your doctors either. doctors are sometimes not always so knowledgable about such niche and particular things, even specialists unfortunately. i wasn't giving a definitive answer or solution, or suggesting you stop it in any way. just analyzing based off what info I have. this is why its hard to give answers on things like these because I only have the info you gave me, my guess is only partial in that sense.

I'd like to know what you have to support your theory that the Lexapro causes it, cause 1) that would make me upset so I hope you are wrong LOL 2) my doctor said it's not an issue, and I kind of trust him on that.

hey man, its always wise to get a second opinion. I'm definitely not suggesting me to be the second opinion but doctors are human too and are wrong sometimes. not saying this is the case in this situation per say, just heed warning. the "my doctor said its not an issue" attitude is understandable but a slippery slope. doctors told me gabapentin was completely safe and harmless and even suggested stopping cold turkey at a healthy dose, which was quite excruciating to say the least. when I went in and complained about the withdrawals I wasn't even taken serious. I've had doctors , SPECIALISTS, suggest jumping off methadone at 32mg still, COLD TURKEY.... now surely I dont have to explain to anyone here the complete error and recklessness of that.

so hey man, its always good to be objective about doctors orders. most of the time they're right, but when they aren't its not them who have to deal with whatever symptoms come ,its the patient. I dont really have a theory behind it or even a hypothesis hah, its just out of all the factors, which are limited, that I have, thinking an interaction between those too would be the most plausible. its in no way a solution or a final answer, I'm just going with what I have in front of me. hope someone else is able to be more specific

 

[Mycophile]

first of all, I'm definitely not a doctor, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, not as replacement for medical advice. but also you shouldn't just blindly trust your doctors either. doctors are sometimes not always so knowledgable about such niche and particular things, even specialists unfortunately. i wasn't giving a definitive answer or solution, or suggesting you stop it in any way. just analyzing based off what info I have. this is why its hard to give answers on things like these because I only have the info you gave me, my guess is only partial in that sense.









hey man, its always wise to get a second opinion. I'm definitely not suggesting me to be the second opinion but doctors are human too and are wrong sometimes. not saying this is the case in this situation per say, just heed warning. the "my doctor said its not an issue" attitude is understandable but a slippery slope. doctors told me gabapentin was completely safe and harmless and even suggested stopping cold turkey at a healthy dose, which was quite excruciating to say the least. when I went in and complained about the withdrawals I wasn't even taken serious. I've had doctors , SPECIALISTS, suggest jumping off methadone at 32mg still, COLD TURKEY.... now surely I dont have to explain to anyone here the complete error and recklessness of that.

so hey man, its always good to be objective about doctors orders. most of the time they're right, but when they aren't its not them who have to deal with whatever symptoms come ,its the patient. I dont really have a theory behind it or even a hypothesis hah, its just out of all the factors, which are limited, that I have, thinking an interaction between those too would be the most plausible. its in no way a solution or a final answer, I'm just going with what I have in front of me. hope someone else is able to be more specific

Oh of course man, a second or third or fourth opinion are always good, and doctors can be wrong, but the other opinions, if they are to be equally valued to the doctors', don't necessarily need to be doctors themselves, but they need to know A LOT.

I'm not necessarily speculating on how much you know, not trying to be insulting or anything, thanks for the opinions, I guess...there ARE definitely a a SHITLOAD of people on this forum who ARE NOT doctors who I think know more about certain drugs than doctors, but a lot of them are mods, some aren't...I basically need to talk to people on here for a while and try to hear their reasons for what they believe before I know whether or not they seem to me like they know enough to value their opinions as equal to my doctor.

I don't want to rattle off names, but there's some mods and posters here I am hoping will chime in and have an opinion.

Anyways, I am starting to have other theories, and my biggest theory is just that I do a lot of fucked up shit to my body and don't keep a consistent sleep schedule, take too many benzos and sleeping pills, my work hours are in flux and I get time off so some days I go to bed at 4:30AM or even later and sleep late into the afternoon, then I find out I have to get up at 6:30AM in a week and so I start shifting my sleep schedule....I mean basically my sleep habits are no different than someone who CONSTANTLY has jet lag and is flying around the world to different countries on a regular basis trying to adjust to their sleep schedules.

So my body has no regular sleep schedule, then I wake up and try to make up for it by chugging like 6--8 cups of coffee a day, make up for the edginess of the coffee with Klonopin...and that's when I'm NOT using other substances like Kratom which I'm in withdrawal from now, or drinking or using some other substances...though my substance use is NOTHING compared to many on this forum, which I actually like cause I WANT to feel healthy and normal...and more power to those who can have their cake and eat it too, take drugs and still feel good off them, and I try to do the same, but we all know that that can be hard.

So with all these different lifestyle factors, radically shifting times I go to sleep and wake up, benzos and sleeping pills, a pot of coffee a day (and I DO NOT react well to coffee and want to quit for that reason)....well, I'm kind of thinking that it may be too much to ask of one drug to ALWAYS make you feel good when you fuck with your body so much you know???

Like, it IS odd to me that if I get no sleep at all, or like 3 hours, my Dexadrine almost always works, whereas it's hit or miss if I slept like shit but still got more sleep....that part confuses me.

Otherwise, I don't use stims recreationally, only when I feel like shit and tired, so when you consider that fact that 90% of the times I've ever reached for an Amp. in my life to feel better it was because something was "OFF" in my daily habits that made me feel like shit....and you expect that no matter HOW off my body is, that no matter how I treat it, I should feel euphoric and incredible after taking a stimulant....yeah, that may be too much to ask from certain drugs you know???

How could it NOT be or hit or miss with all those factors right??

The only thing is, is that I don't know if thats how everyone reacts to amps, and there ARE CERTAIN drugs that are less "hit and miss" for me than stims.

Like, Kratom can also be quite fickle, but if I get my dose right, about 85% of the time I can have treated my body like shit and still feel pretty good after dosing.

But Kratom is an opioid, not a stimulant, and it's an opioid's job to kill pain and mask any discomfort you feel so that makes sense, but Vyvanse/Dex/Adderall are not painkillers and they work differently so, yeah...

It's not like other drugs don't do the same.

If I smoke weed when I'm tired I feel like shit and need a nap, or if I smoke it while on a stimulant I panic.

I think it was one of our mods Speed King who said something like "drugs work their best when you are taking care of your body and have consistent lifestyle habits", and I agree.

I think that most, if not all, of what happens to me with these stimulants is that I expect them to always work perfectly when I reach for them and make up for the fact that I am tired cause I have no sleep schedule, am benzoed out, and sometimes taking other drugs, drinking a pot of coffee a day, yeah....

I guess I expect them to be as consistent for me as they are for certain other people, or as consistent as an opioid is at making me feel better...but again...different classes of drugs.

What I do know, is that the fewer odd factors thrown into the mix, the better my sleep, the less caffeine, the less benzos, etc...the more likely the Amps will work well...which makes sense.

But again...the only thing that really confuses me is that if I get barely any sleep the amps will almost always work...which means my body is even MORE off at those times....

Sort of seems like my body needs to either be SUPER off in terms of like running on no sleep....or SUPER on...for the amps to work....but that when I am in that in between stage I usually am in....shitty, shitty sleep quality, but still have slept 8 or 9 hours...yeah, the Amps don't work so well then.

That's as much as I can figure out now.

I'm interested in any other theories.

 

[AMPHETAMINEGOD]

clue: dopamine reuptake and down..like sleep deprivation causes more dopamine..hunger creates more dopamine..exercise creates more dopamine....creativity increases dopamine...it can sometimes mean you are on too much.,..or tolerance....

 

[Mycophile]

clue: dopamine reuptake and down..like sleep deprivation causes more dopamine..hunger creates more dopamine..exercise creates more dopamine....creativity increases dopamine...it can sometimes mean you are on too much.,..or tolerance....

Ok, so do you mean one reason it might work when I don't get a good night sleep is because sleeping poorly gives more dopamine??

And if so, why would that be the case?

Wouldn't sleeping badly give you LESS dopamine cause it's bad for you?

Or does it produce more cause maybe your brain it trying to help you make up for poor sleep and make you feel better?

What do you think I can do to make my effects more consistent and figure out what dosage is right for me?

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

I'm still struggling with this yet no one wants to help or knows how.

Amphetamines just have entirely inconsistent effects for me.

Most of the time they either don't work at all or they make me MORE tired, UNLESS I have slept less than like 4 hours, and then they almost always work.

Could it be that drinking too much caffeine with amps could overstimulate me resulting in a reverse effect?

Cause that is something I also do.

I've never heard of anyone feeling amps either don't work for them or make them MORE tired, with them only ocassionally working.

 

[nemothreefo]

stomach content

 

[Mycophile]

stomach content

Could you be more specific?

That if I have more in my stomach they'll work better or worse?

I tend to think there's more to it than that, but it could be a factor.

I've never spoken to anyone with as inconsistent results as I get it.

It's true that sometimes when they don't work it's cause I just wake up and eat an energy bar (thinking I will need something in my stomach first), take an Adderall, and go back to bed till it kicks in, then I have 2 cups off coffee that I keep by my bedside. Sometimes I don't even have the freaking energy to make it downstairs and eat breakfast (I usually have Yogurt) till AFTER it kicks in, but the other day I fucking slept through an entire 4 hour dose of Adderall (about 7.5mgs) and 2 cups off coffee. It did so little I slept right through the shit.

Should I eat more before I take them, or less?

 

[Mycophile]

I mean one issue is probably that I've been using a lot of sleep medication in an attempt to force myself onto a good sleep schedule since I suck with that, and maybe they are leaving me too drowsy for the Adderall to counteract that the next day?

Like, I've been taking 1.5mgs Klonopin, 2 1/2 benadryls (I HATE them, they make me feel like shit), and 3 3/4 milteters Melatonin to knock me out, which always makes me feel like shit the next day, then taking Adderall to counteract it, but sometimes it's just not enough and I fall back to sleep and wake up feeling like garbage.

SO I think I need to cut out the bendraryl since it makes me feel like shit, and get less sleep if necessary since it will be better quality.

Even with that in mind though, the inconsistency of these meds is weird for me.

 

[AMPHETAMINEGOD]

try zopiclone..meds interaction can have a huge impact..i have had one anitpsychotic (i'm schizoaffective) and it has tapped out an 8 ball of side...

 

[Mycophile]

try zopiclone..meds interaction can have a huge impact..i have had one anitpsychotic (i'm schizoaffective) and it has tapped out an 8 ball of side...

Yeah, well for sure the sleeping meds are leaving me in a more tired state that's harder for the Adderall to work it's magic, but even when I don't take them it's not like I get consistent effects off Amps, and I use very low doses, I mean I get side effects from anything higher than 10mgs Adderall/Dexadrine MAX so I stick to lower doses.

Lower doses are actually more effective for me, and I'm not taking these things recreationally, but just to help me with energy temporarily.

Tonight a 5mg dose of Adderall finally worked, but earlier in the day it didn't.

Do you think I need to eat more before I take them or less?

I can't figure this out.

 

[AMPHETAMINEGOD]

well you have to watch out for high PH..citric acid is bad and go for high alkaline diet..LOTS OF PROTEIN when you get up...exercise!!! earlier in the day the better..also try ..not kidding but lumosity.com totally stimulates me for the day