Opioids Why can't Tylenol become banned.

[TripMcnealy]

Pretty much everything that was posted here, and Tylenol is given out in controlled measured amounts, is not addictive, and the effects are known about. With Kratom it's all based on theory, strains, tolerance/dosage, and one strain/type apparently does not work for everyone. There are also apparently some not so fun long term side effects from Kratom use/abuse/addiction.

Nobody should be surprised that Kratom is finally banned. A friend of mine tried to use Kratom to get off of high doses of oxy and dialudid, wound up becoming addicted to the Kratom, and then became addicted to heroin and overdosed and almost died from the dope/H.[/QUOTE'm

sorry about your friend but i was able to get off of oxy without derailing my life using Kratom. It wasn't joy ride:sucks the first few days, but iwas able to do it alone. Within a week even my kratom dosage was decreasing. Since less than a year ago my average oxy intake has been cut 60 percent. It stopped me from seeking out drugs such as heroin or counterfeit pills when my script ran out. Aside from the maintenence benefits, it also provides decent pain relief ( albeit not so great as oxy) and slight mood enhancement that is so needed for someone who is in pain 24/7 like myself. Kratom only slowed your friend down from getting to heroin. It prevents drug abuse. It prevents spending all of your money or begging doctors for more of the Mother O.
I don't know where i'm going to be without i

 

[Speed King]

Interesting.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Well, it does shit for pain, but it's the only thing that works for hardcore flu fever. So it's kinda basic medicine. Should it be mixed with opiates just because ? No, we already are moving away from this, people already eat tylenol like candy so its rare anybody has a script for percocet, they'll have oxyIR instead.

 

[Speed King]

Overall point was easily accessible painful way to die, if you OD (Tylenol) or just damage from years of usage vs a natural substance that when not abused to the extent of some of you d***sizers, benifits a majority of people, who possibly can't afford pharmacuticals or what ever reason.

All this not fair stuff has to stop. All you psudohippies and progressive people need to corner assholes that have the nerve to say dumb shit like ( read in between the lines) even though this substance is natural, raises mood and people that are usually in agonizing pain, find relief and is pretty much impossible to OD on, well we better keep it schedule 1.

I am shocked that people put up with that shit. It's time to take back power. It may take some time, but it can be done.

Not to get political, but people bitch about their leaders, yet don't vote. We have to take back some common sense stuff .

If we all took a little time out of our hectic lives, glued to the tv or some other bullshit, things could progressively change

Hey, I have HR so deep inside, I can't help but advocate. Excellent thread, but continue to understand.

 

[muie]

to heal/build must first destroy - war economics 101

OP, very true! If they really were worried about addicts they could put some naloxone in preparations instead of acetaminophen, much like they do in suboxone and they would have that concern removed but the medical industry is a dirty business and it isn't just about helping....much like the economics of war - the human body must first be destroyed in order for the pharmaceutical companies to 'cure you' with a plethora of nicely colored pills that will please the eyes of any child :/ 'frowny face' - Cartmendez - NAMBLA

 

[Speed King]

I hope this thread opened an eye or third eye for some of you.

 

[Kittycat5]

Not mine, brother. Just look at the history and scheduling of MDMA. DEA does what it wants. I imagine someone could challenge the scheduling, pretty sure the law says one can, but just not sure there is enough of a movement to do so. I wonder how much of a black market will develop. Seems crazy to risk getting arrested for some kratom in anyway you choose to look at it. It probably payback for the marijuana lobby.

 

[Sobrietysucks]

Not mine, brother. Just look at the history and scheduling of MDMA. DEA does what it wants. I imagine someone could challenge the scheduling, pretty sure the law says one can, but just not sure there is enough of a movement to do so. I wonder how much of a black market will develop. Seems crazy to risk getting arrested for some kratom in anyway you choose to look at it. It probably payback for the marijuana lobby.

I ddon't think there will be kratom in black market. The main reason a lot of ppl take kratom is bcz its legal and easy to access. If i have to go thru the trouble of black market I might as well just get oxy which is way stronger lol... Plus kratom is legal everywhere else

Dunno if this is a good comparison but imagine if Sweden banned l theanine. Do u think there will be l theanine in the Bm? Swedish ppl people are prolly not gonna bother and go tAke some benzos Or just quit . Lol

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Overall point was easily accessible painful way to die, if you OD (Tylenol) or just damage from years of usage vs a natural substance that when not abused to the extent of some of you d***sizers, benifits a majority of people, who possibly can't afford pharmacuticals or what ever reason.

All this not fair stuff has to stop. All you psudohippies and progressive people need to corner assholes that have the nerve to say dumb shit like ( read in between the lines) even though this substance is natural, raises mood and people that are usually in agonizing pain, find relief and is pretty much impossible to OD on, well we better keep it schedule 1.

I am shocked that people put up with that shit. It's time to take back power. It may take some time, but it can be done.

Not to get political, but people bitch about their leaders, yet don't vote. We have to take back some common sense stuff .

If we all took a little time out of our hectic lives, glued to the tv or some other bullshit, things could progressively change

Hey, I have HR so deep inside, I can't help but advocate. Excellent thread, but continue to understand.

I agree, and americans wouldn't be stuck with 2 most horrible choices in history like right now (there's no lesser evil, even), if they voted in the congress and senate elections that happen EVERY 2 YEARS, when I see numbers such as 15% voting for 18-34 people in the 2010 or 2014 election, and get ever shittier bought and sold congressmen and those Netanyahu bitches in the Senate who made that Treasonous letter to Ayatollah Khamanei while they were having Peace talks and were about to get a deal with a nation that they don't want to repeat the scenario of Iraq or Syria in at all. Even the fact a foreign leader is talking to about 90% of congress (the real democrats stayed home, i don't think a single republican didn't go) and giving it orders is astounding.

My ancestors were dual canadian-american citizen, I could explain how that can be when I'm a french speaking Canadian, but I'll spare you the history lecture, but yeah, I guess it's in my blood to look up your shit. It's not all about the President like Bill Clinton did with his "DLC" thing back in 92, and the Democrats followed since then, it should be a 50 state strategy, you could even win disregarding Florida or Ohio if you had actual people that move the masses. Now I'm aware of the assholes who fuck with voting laws in the US, it happened here in Canada, and the 2 opposition parties which together only had 10 seats less than and were part of many committees, trying to make Election Canada a partisan organisation, I couldn't believe it, his bill (he was an MP and also the Minister of Clean Election Reform (newspeak for Minister of Election Destruction)), Libs who are now in power managed to water down their thing, their standing in election matters (the Conservatives) being very weak after all the proven election fraud in 2011 that gave 'em majority.

So yeah, I know how the US has it even worse where most people are not even given a voting hour if they are working, paid, like we do, I know right, the horror! makes it so people working 16 hour a day just to survive can't go vote. First they should make voting days during the weekends. But it's obvious they don't want you voting, they only let everything be clean in 2008 because Obama was as good an orator than Hitler, promising streets of gold and ending to feeling sad, I saw through him, but I thought he was better than Clinton. And he was, He deeply regrets overthrowing Gaddafi and what it caused in northern Africa now (admitted recently). He was just clean through and through, no background that could be used as blackmail (afaik, I know Russ Tice ex-NSA high ranking officer now whistleblower said that candidate for senate Obama and Senator Obama was wiretapped around the clock, same with Sen. Feinstein, who is their cheerleader, so fucking hilarious). But yes, your voting rates have to be like ours tend to be, at least 60% of the eligible voters, and remove this ancient punishment of not being able to vote if you've been to prison, which a shitload of weed smokers get stuck in once they even get out of prison. The idea people getting thrown into prison for weed is so mindboggling for me unless you had a massive grow ops that rivals those grown by health canada in size...

It's sad but first you gotta get your elections to be clean, no more electronic voting machiness with no paper trail (a guy invented one that was so impossible to hack, presented it in Ohio, where Diebold had promised a win to Bush in 2004, quite loudly on a microphone in front of a large crowd...) who was heading to the University of California, well, he got murdered on the way with a kind of impossible accident like say screenwriter Gary DeVore or Michael Haestings. Here in Canada, machines are not authorized and it was written into law pretty much after witnessing your 2000 debacle. desk, thingie in cardboard in front of you, paper, pen, you roll the thing they ask to and put it in the black box.

I know a lot of places do that in America, but they push other methods that can be tempered with in those key states.

And then there is gerrymandering, yes democrats do it too, but a lot less, some Congregational districts are a complete joke when you see the shape they have, with many Republican. This gerrymandering will only be possible to fix in 2022, we got time to have another near-earth-object coming from nowhere almost hitting us. They really gotta add powerful surveillances of the skies over the southern hemisphere. It was only the size of a small house, but what if it fell down on a nuclear energy plant? Anyway, you get my point, election removal of "reforms", when a tea partier type conservative says he wants to reform something, they mean destroy it.

 

[morphine-dreams]

This thread/idea is interesting, because despite dxm being an obviously abuseable drug (and more dangerous than kratom), it's legal simply because there's no better cough suppressant available other than opiates. They've been searching since the 50s/60s I think, and still can't find anything. So logically, kratom should (not saying it will) follow suit, since there is no safer and more effective alternative.

 

[Kittycat5]

Kratom, unlike DXM, doesnt have an approved medical use though making it easy pickings. I dont want it banned but once it starts showing up in gas stations, dont expect it to remain legal anymore (except booze and tobacco of course, fucking hypocrites).

 

[AsylumDweller]

Glad that I got my Kratom load when I did. Sorry to get off topic, but someone recently ripped me off for a bottle of Ibuprofen. Wondering what the hell they're going to do with those? I used them as an adjunct to my oxy and it was very effective for pain. Alone???

 

[AsylumDweller]

Tylenol is (moderately) effective as an anti-fever agent and painkiller when taken at doses that are within reason. That's why. It's not like it's 100% useless filler designed to purposefully poison you.

And actually, a lot of narcotics are functionally useless as painkillers unless combined with another analgesic like paracetamol or *especially* a NSAID like ibuprofen.
There's a lot of data that shows that, for instance, 1000mg acetaminophen plus 60mg codeine is more effective as a painkiller than 10mg morphine IM...
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/painpag/acutrev/analgesics/leagtab.html

The DEA does a bunch of stupid shit: cannabis is Schedule 1, so why is it that much of a suprise that the DEA "no fun brigade" decided another plant that grows in the dirt is the Scourge of America and must be banned at all costs?

Could not agree more!

 

[Ksa]

People give long answers but the answer to this question is short: There's not many OTC painkillers. They banned sodium metamizole which was a blow because it worked a lot better than Tylenol, and Tylenol right now is the best OTC painkiller out there. People need to function and go at their jobs knowing they have something for their headache, or for when they can't sleep. If they banned all healthy alternatives and only left toxic ones, question is why did they ban the healthy ones? Think about it, if you remove NSAIDs from pharmacy counters, and you have a headache, what is there left for you to take? Pseudoephedrine, but that's behind the counter and you won't sleep with that.

Nough said.

 

[xbandit07x]

When has the government ever not decided based on profit how to manage drugs sold. Why do you think the world has ever been a place where things were allowed because they were safe or not allowed because you can die?

you really think the forces behind keeping marijuana banned are also taking into account a genuine skepticism of its safety? It's too rare to die on Advil, can someone please enlighten me how Advil can kill you in the short term if you aren't taking toxic amounts. Not saying it's not terrible for you, I never take it, but what's the way you can mess it up and die taking Advil for a headache or something.

 

[Kittycat5]

You can be severly allergic to it and not know it and go into anaphylactic shock. You can have an ulcer or other GI bleed and not realize ibuprofen can worsen it and bleed internally. You can have terrible and uncontrolled cardiovascular disease and not realize, once again, the risks that NSAIDs have for such conditions and have a heart attack. You can be on warfarin or other anticoagulants and not understand NSAIDs can thin the blood more and hemmorage.

As you said, this is all pretty rare in terms of actually killing you, but the risks are real. And really its only been maybe 100 years since governments decided what is, in their opinion, safe and ok to sell or poses a genuine public safety hazard an must be banned. So basically the other 9,900 years or so since we stopped hunting and gathering and remained generally in one spot where a person or persons decided they wanted or needed to rule is the answer I would give to your question about why do I think the world....

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

This thread/idea is interesting, because despite dxm being an obviously abuseable drug (and more dangerous than kratom), it's legal simply because there's no better cough suppressant available other than opiates. They've been searching since the 50s/60s I think, and still can't find anything. So logically, kratom should (not saying it will) follow suit, since there is no safer and more effective alternative.

In Canada, there's Ulone, which at first my lung doctor scripted me for coughing fits, when my GP would script me codeine 30mg pills or hydrocodone 5mg pills as needed. Ulone is clofenadiol. Or something like that, I hate it it gives me nightmares (very strong anticholinergic), but yeah, we got something in between DXM and codeine. Still without prescription Ulone a small 4oz bottle is <snip>, while OTC cough syrup with codeine (which you better pretend you have headaches and get T1's or 222's cos the syrup has 3,33mg of codeine per teaspoon) is ridiculously cheaper, but you gotta have it okay'd by the pharmacist, which isn't hard, normally.
Clofenadiol is used nowhere else, I remember back in 2009 there wasn't even an entry on wikipedia, now there is one but I'm not sure if it's spelled this way.

Woops