Why can't they make amphetamine-esque pills without the narcotic aspect?

ChemicallyEnhanced

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I'm talking for weight-loss here. It's often a general consensus that amphetamine sulphate is "that miracle weight-loss drug" that 10s of millions of people are searching for...except for the fact that it can no longer be legally prescribed due to the euphoria and high addiction-potential it has (as well as psychosis in very high/chronic levels.

Surely there should be able by now to manufacture an "analog" or similar drug or whatever-you-wanna-call-it that still gives you the anorectic, thermogenic and high-energy effects, but is not psychoactive or euphoric?


A/N: I'm pretty high right now and apologies for my brain being foggy enough to only write an over-simplified explanation, lacking the correct terminology.
 

Zoqium

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There are still a number of amphetamines used for weight loss (like phentermine and diethylpropion) that are considered to be less enjoyable, but they are still active amphetamines.
 

Phobos

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I'm talking for weight-loss here. It's often a general consensus that amphetamine sulphate is "that miracle weight-loss drug" that 10s of millions of people are searching for...except for the fact that it can no longer be legally prescribed due to the euphoria and high addiction-potential it has (as well as psychosis in very high/chronic levels.

Surely there should be able by now to manufacture an "analog" or similar drug or whatever-you-wanna-call-it that still gives you the anorectic, thermogenic and high-energy effects, but is not psychoactive or euphoric?


A/N: I'm pretty high right now and apologies for my brain being foggy enough to only write an over-simplified explanation, lacking the correct terminology.
It is called Ephedrine.
 

Wubb

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Fuck it, Phobos you beat me to it

247csws how much commission do you make per bottle ??
 

Chris42393

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Shit im trying to gain weight... Since I fucked up my back im trying to gain my weight back (had to quit working out because of it). Maybe one day :/
 

Xorkoth

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Ephedrine is psychoactive and gets you high... in fact for years they banned it in the US because people were abusing it. When I had hardly done any stims I used to take 50mg of ephedrine plus caffeine and god damn did I feel good. Eventually I found it start to feeling pretty dirty with a lot of side effects. But yeah ephedrine is certainly psychoactive.
 

Vastness

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"Anorectic" and "high energy" effects, as you put it, are likely not going to be entirely separable from psychoactive effects because appetite and subjective energy levels have such a strong psychological component.

I think the sort of drug you are looking for would be closer to being an exercise mimetic, of which there are a few examples, the most notable of which are probably cardarine and SR-9009, both of which increase the basal metabolic rate, increase fat metabolism, and seemingly mimic a lot of other beneficial effects of exercise, without you actually needing to do any exercise. However they both have significant risks associated with them, cardarine has some unanswered and currently unlikely to be answered questions about whether it might cause cancer, and SR-9009 is, as I understand it, just a proof-of-concept sort of compound never really intended to be used in humans, as such the safety profile of it is completely unknown.

Another compound which may mimic some of the beneficial effects of exercise, and has been shown in some studies to cause weight loss, is the anti-diabetes drug metformin, which reduces the rate of gluconeogenesis which occurs in the liver, increases your body's ability to burn fat for energy, and may have some other exercise-mimicking effects even though it's not strictly an exercise mimetic. It is a very interesting substance however and there is some speculation as to whether it could be one of the first true life extension drugs - I cycle it on and off for this reason - the only reason I don't take it continuously is because I already take a lot of stuff on and off and also there is some evidence it can lower testosterone above a certain dose, or, possibly, over a certain time period.

All that said - none of these drugs are miracle substances, and probably can't match the level of weight loss you could achieve with a good old fashioned meth binge.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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There are chemicals that will cause weight loss more rapidly than meth.

Not worth it.
What do you mean "chemicals"? Like, medications? What were you thinking of specifically?

I think it'd be more logical to surmise that, in terms of medication, there are substances that overall have a better profile for that indication than meth, but that they aren't not necessarily better for just weight loss.

I'm thinking mainly that meth is super addictive, but that phentermine isn't nearly so addictive. So if phentermine doesn't work, sometimes meth is prescribed, but very rarely.

Phentermine and diethylpropion are substituted phenethylamines, but they aren't amphetamine.

I think that they use these stimulating substances for the first several weeks of one trying to lose weight, as the anorectic effect goes away after about that much time. They're used to get over the extreme starvation phase.
 

Captain.Heroin

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It is a precursor to other chemicals and is biochemically active, inhibiting energy (adenosine triphosphate, ATP) production in cells with mitochondria.
Quite frankly if you can't lose weight with amphetamines or other 3rd world OTC stimulants, anything like the above is a terrible idea. And even still obesity is probably still preferable to a chemical like that.
 

checktest

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I mean phentermine and amfepramone (as zoquim mentioned) pretty much meet those criteria at some level, along with wellbutrin. Substituted and different, sure. When you look at the historical use of amphetamine, you can see reasons for regulatory reticence on approving amphetamine-type drugs, let alone fenfluramine type issues. Sibutramine's withdrawal and issues adds more regulatory fuel on weight loss drugs of that type.


The regulatory procedures are not small with weight loss drugs, and any candidates fall under a good deal of scrutiny. (Though perhaps less than may be warranted to some if you look at lorcaserin.) This is also balanced against known agents, bariatric surgery, and other dietary approaches.

Re-purposing other drugs was pretty big, topiramate naltrexone etc...Besides Metformin, other diabetic agents are being considered (the glp-1 mimetics) and are promising in some regards.

So they have made analogs/agents to amphetamine in the past, but further development is highly restrained by regulatory approvals and actual alternatives.

Can't go back the DNP/strychnine/amphetamine days


(...Legally)

Also it has to be mentioned that trials of amphetamine are somewhat returning in comprehensive weight loss programs, mainly through binge-eating disorder use of vyvanse, though I think I saw a dextroamphetamine program and studies some years ago.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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Quite frankly if you can't lose weight with amphetamines or other 3rd world OTC stimulants, anything like the above is a terrible idea. And even still obesity is probably still preferable to a chemical like that.
This 2,4-DNP has danger written all over it.

Losing weight with medication is usually a last resort sort of thing. Diet and exercise usually suffice. But in the beginning there're a lot of leptin receptors that aren't activated, which makes the brain tell itself that it's literally starving. This period luckily doesn't last a very long time, but it's grueling. One has a heck of a hard time differentiating between normal hunger and emotional eating. They have to shift so that nutritious food fills them up, as opposed to junk.

For the record, amphetamine isn't a chemical group. I think you meant phenethylamine.

In this early period if many other methods have failed, sometimes a stimulating medication can be prescribed. But it's only meant for that short period during which one needs to build up good habits and an exercise routine.

Wellbutrin is a really strange stimulating antidepressant for a few reasons. But I guess it could be tried to lose weight with.

In the US, phentermine is a S-IV substance, if I'm not mistaken.
 

Xorkoth

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Well sure amphetamines are a chemical group, they're all phenethylamines with a methyl on the alpha position. They're a subset of phenethylamines. There are a lot of amphetamines, a bunch of fluorinated ones ([2/3/4]-F[M/E]A), the psychedelic ones (the DOX series such as DOB, DOC, DOM, etc, also 3C-E, 3C-P). Also MDMA, MDA, MDEA, and a bunch of others in that realm. All amphetamines as well as phenethylamines.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

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I'm confused about the thread title. Amphetamines are not narcotics - plain and simple. 'Narcotic' means 'sleep inducing', which amphetamines certainly ain't.

And yes, ephedrine is certainly psychoactive. As Shadowmeister says, it's a 'dirty' hit, but it bloody works.

Also, Diethylpropion is fuckin awesome in high doses (it's a cathinone).
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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Well sure amphetamines are a chemical group, they're all phenethylamines with a methyl on the alpha position. They're a subset of phenethylamines. There are a lot of amphetamines, a bunch of fluorinated ones ([2/3/4]-F[M/E]A), the psychedelic ones (the DOX series such as DOB, DOC, DOM, etc, also 3C-E, 3C-P). Also MDMA, MDA, MDEA, and a bunch of others in that realm. All amphetamines as well as phenethylamines.
Officially. not.

I'm confused about the thread title. Amphetamines are not narcotics - plain and simple. 'Narcotic' means 'sleep inducing', which amphetamines certainly ain't.

And yes, ephedrine is certainly psychoactive. As Shadowmeister says, it's a 'dirty' hit, but it bloody works.

Also, Diethylpropion is fuckin awesome in high doses (it's a cathinone).

Narcotic is thrown around as a word for drugs that can cause euphoria.
 

Xorkoth

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What do you mean officially not? Who determined that? Not trying to be snarky, I just don't see how amphetamines aren't a chemical group. They're a subset of phenethylamines with a methyl on the alpha position of the phenethylamine skeleton. Amphetamine itself is just the base molecule, you can modify it in a ton of ways and it's still an amphetamine. Hence things like 4-fluoroamphetamine or 2,5-dimethoxy-4-chloroamphetamine. They're phenethylamines but also amphetamines (the second one is a super potent psychedelic). Just as amphetamine itself is a phenethylamine and an amphetamine.
 

atara

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Dietrich, M.O.; Horvath, T.L. "Limitations in anti-obesity drug development: the critical role of hunger-promoting neurons." Nature Reviews Drug Discovery, 11, 675-691, 2012.

>This Review evaluates the evidence indicating that anti-obesity drugs targeting satiety pathways may be destined to fail owing to adverse side effects. Therefore, we propose that such treatments should be used for short periods of time in combination with intense behavioural interventions. In addition, we discuss how targeting hunger, or the molecular pathways involved in hunger (such as during calorie restriction), may be a successful alternative approach to improving health in patients with chronic metabolic disorders such as obesity.
 
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