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Why are most religions against suicide?

Wilson Wilson

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Probably because you think your problems are inescapable and that, in truth, your problems are only temporal -- not eternal.
Depends on the reason one wants to commit suicide no? What if someone has a terminal illness that cannot be cured and gets worse every day? Christians would still tell you it's unethical to commit suicide even in that scenario.

“Disregarding the demands made by religion one might well ask: why should it be more laudable for an old man who senses the decline of his powers to await his slow exhaustion and dissolution than in full consciousness to set himself a limit? Suicide is in this case a wholly natural and obvious action, which as a victory for reason ought fairly to awaken reverence: and did awaken it in those ages when the heads of Greek philosophy and the most upright Roman patriots were accustomed to die by suicide. On the other hand, the desire to carry on existing from day to day, anxiously consulting physicians and observing scrupulous rules of conduct, without the strength to get any closer to the actual goal of one's life, is much less respectworthy.”

-Friedrich Nietzsche
 

Yourbaker

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Religions are based on life being a story that is already written, you have a part to play in it. For the "believing" individuals your role is important for their perceived story to come out as they are anticipating. However horrible your life may be to experience first hand, they believe it is important for their story's sake that you endure it.
 

Wilson Wilson

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Religions are based on life being a story that is already written, you have a part to play in it. For the "believing" individuals your role is important for their perceived story to come out as they are anticipating. However horrible your life may be to experience first hand, they believe it is important for their story's sake that you endure it.
So determinism essentially? That's one depressing philosophy.
 

Somaniferum

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without people there is no money for the churches
I was about to write the same thing. Religions, in my view, are all about organization and control of society. If you want to have society that will work for you and hand over part of their labor (crops, money) then you do not want to see you citizens/workers killing themselves. They are free workforce and suicide is bad for your business.

Pure selfish economic interest would be my answer. That does not mean that sometimes religion is not useful or that it does not contain any value whatsoever. But my view is that religions of the past are goverments (political and corporate elite) of the present. Suicide is simply waste of resources.

But that's just me. (and the guy I qouted 🤣 )
 
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Wilson Wilson

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I was about to write the same thing. Religions, in my view, are all about organization and control of society. If you want to have society that will work for you and hand over part of their labor (crops, money) then you do not want to see you citizens/workers killing themselves. They are free workforce and suicide is bad for your business.

Pure selfish economic interest would be my answer. That does not mean that sometimes religion is useful or that it does not contain any value whatsoever. But my view is that religions of the past are goverments (political and corporate elite) of the present. Suicide is simply waste of resources.

But that's just me. (and the guy I qouted 🤣 )
Yes this is a very Nietzschean view of religion to come at it from a philosophical standpoint and I happen to agree with it fully.

Religion in the past was strongly linked to the state (in some parts of the world it still very much is, and those are very oppressive regimes) and there's no doubt in my mind that like any other state it cares primarily about control and self-interest.

Even without having direct links to the state, I honestly don't see how it can even be debated that religion seeks to have control over followers. The only debate here would be whether that control is good or bad, which is purely subjective, but the objective truth is that organised religion seeks to control the lives of followers.

“The most general formula underlying every religion and morality is: ‘Do this and that, stop this and that—then you will be happy! Or else...’ Every morality, every religion is this imperative—I call it the great original sin of reason.”

-Nietzsche
 

Somaniferum

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"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."
-Albert Camus
Or to paraphrase it - "There is only one philosophical question whether or not to commit suicide."

But I do not think that this truly belongs in this thread, because to be free to think means to be free of any particular concept, be it religious one or "just" philosophical.

That's the best I can do with the question in hand. :)

Peace 🖖
 

jose ribas da silva

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Types of Suicide
Emile Durkheim classified different types of suicides on the basis of different types of relationship between the actor and his society.

(1) Egoistic suicide:

According to Durkheim, when a man becomes socially isolated or feels that he has no place in the society he destroys himself. This is the suicide of self-centred person who lacks altruistic feelings and is usually cut off from main stream of the society.

(2) Altruistic suicide:

This type of suicide occurs when individuals and the group are too close and intimate. This kind of suicide results from the over integration of the individual into social proof, for example – Sati customs, Dannies warriors.

(3) Anomic suicide:

This type of suicide is due to certain breakdown of social equilibrium, such as, suicide after bankruptcy or after winning a lottery. In other words, anomic suicide takes place in a situation which has cropped up suddenly.

(4) Fatalistic suicide:

This type of suicide is due to overregulation in society. Under the overregulation of a society, when a servant or slave commits suicide, when a barren woman commits suicide, it is the example of fatalistic suicide
 

jose ribas da silva

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What are the types of suicide given by Durkheim?

Emile Durkheim was a French philosopher who was born on 15 April, 1858. Durkheim acknowledged Comte as his master. On a sociological perspective when Comte and Spencer were considered as the founding fathers of Sociology, Durkheim is considered as the grandfather and the systematic approach to study the society began with him.
Durkheim’s theory of ‘suicide’ is related in various ways to his study of the division of labour. It is also linked with the theory of ‘social constraint’. Durkheim has established the view that there are no societies in which suicide does not occur.

Rejecting most of the accepted theories of suicide, Durkheim on the basis of his monographic studies claims suicide as primarily a social phenomena in terms of the breakdown of the vital bond of life. Durkheim in his classical study of ‘Le Suicide’ which was published in 1897, demonstrates that neither psycho-pathic factor nor heredity nor climate nor poverty, nor unhappy love nor other personal factors motivate along form sufficient explanation of suicide.

According to Durkheim, suicide is not an individual act nor a personal action. It is caused by some power which is over and above the individual or super individual. He viewed “all classes of deaths resulting directly or indirectly from the positive or negative acts of the victim itself who knows the result they produce” Having defined the phenomenon Durkheim dismisses the psychological explanation. Many doctors and psychologists develop the theory that majority of people who take their own life are in a pathological state, but Durkheim emphasises that the force, which determines the suicide, is not psychological but social. He concludes that suicide is the result of social disorganisation or lack of social integration or social solidarity.
 

Wilson Wilson

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The link between suicide and society is certainly a very interesting topic but I reject the idea that it is the sole cause of suicide as Durkheim puts forward. It is the cause in many cases for sure, external forces are a bigger cause of suicide than mental illness despite common belief - for example the most common contributing factor to suicide is not depression but actually divorce (protip: don't get married).

But there are still many people in the world who do have a happy social life and feel a connection to those around them but commit suicide for other reasons, and in this category mental illness plays a major role. Someone who is severe chronic depression may very well commit suicide even though they are surrounded by understanding loved ones. It's commonly said when someone takes their own life that no one saw it coming because their life was in order, they had a loving family, and they seemed happy.
 

jose ribas da silva

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for example the most common contributing factor to suicide is not depression but actually divorce (protip: don't get married).
This will depend in a considerable extent on the society in question. If we consider countries like Japan, South Korea, the major causes of suicide are strongly linked with social pressure and/or the way by which the society is organized and organizes the interaction among individuals. If I remember well, I think Lithuanian has the highest rates of suicide, which may be correlated with poverty, lack of opportunities, etc. In the 90's, Brazil had an enormous economical crisis. In this context, when the suicide rates are analysed over time, during the years of the crisis, they were markedly increased.

Of course, I am not disregarding the role of mental illness and depression as motivating factors. In my country, i believe they are the main causes nowadays. Just wanting to emphasize that, in fact, society and economy play a very important role as it is clear from the aforementioned examples.
 

Wilson Wilson

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Yes true, I'm talking about modern day Western societies with the divorce thing. It's well known that it is the biggest contributing factor today in most Western societies. Even during recessions you don't see much change in this. For example the story about traders and bankers committing mass suicides before the stock market crash of 1929 is a myth.

You are right that society plays an important role. Not about suicide specifically but the recent Joker film was a very good story about someone with positive intentions driven to madness by isolation from society.
 

Shrooms00087

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Depends on the reason one wants to commit suicide no? What if someone has a terminal illness that cannot be cured and gets worse every day? Christians would still tell you it's unethical to commit suicide even in that scenario.

“Disregarding the demands made by religion one might well ask: why should it be more laudable for an old man who senses the decline of his powers to await his slow exhaustion and dissolution than in full consciousness to set himself a limit? Suicide is in this case a wholly natural and obvious action, which as a victory for reason ought fairly to awaken reverence: and did awaken it in those ages when the heads of Greek philosophy and the most upright Roman patriots were accustomed to die by suicide. On the other hand, the desire to carry on existing from day to day, anxiously consulting physicians and observing scrupulous rules of conduct, without the strength to get any closer to the actual goal of one's life, is much less respectworthy.”

-Friedrich Nietzsche

I'm just saying why Religion has a dogma against it. I don't think anyone is going to look down on someone whose terminal and chooses suicide. Speaking; however, from a religious point of view it's a communal or familial matter. It may be lethal but it can't be about money because it's easily gained. (church charity or family charity)

If an illness were to get worse and worse, and the religious stance is you cannot commit suicide, then it becomes about fighting for you family. Suicide leaves a lot in its wake. I had an uncle who had cancer and shot himself. Turns out he told only me and then committed suicide. My grandfather had to find and identify his remains. While also trying to sell his home.

For the record I am not against my uncle or what he did, just that the issue itself becomes complicated when facing an illness and I wish he hadn't committed suicide despite the symptoms. However I understand what he did.
 
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Wilson Wilson

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I'm just saying why Religion has a dogma against it. I don't think anyone is going to look down on someone whose terminal and chooses suicide. Speaking; however, from a religious point of view it's a communal or familial matter. It may be lethal but it can't be about money because it's easily gained. (church charity or family charity)

If an illness were to get worse and worse, and the religious stance is you cannot commit suicide, then it becomes about fighting for you family. Suicide leaves a lot in its wake. I had an uncle who had cancer and shot himself. Turns out he told only me and then committed suicide. My grandfather had to find and identify his remains. While also trying to sell his home.

For the record I am not against my uncle or what he did, just that the issue itself becomes complicated when facing an illness and I wish he hadn't committed suicide despite the symptoms. However I understand what he did.
Fair enough if you were playing devil's advocate, you didn't distinguish between your own views and the religious views you posted so I made an assumption.

Personally I think it is less about money and more about power. The Catholic Church for example is flooded with tax free money already. The Pope sits on a solid gold throne inside his palace built in a country he rules and... presumably prays for god to feed the poor... lol.

But the purpose of organised religion is to exert power over followers. What good is all that money to a religion without any followers?

And I can't speak for the whole world but in the UK, Christianity is basically dead already. In 2011 the average church goer was 61. It's now almost a decade later and no doubt that number is now higher and many believers are simply dying from old age. The Church of England is practically obsolete now. The organisation itself likely still has a lot of money but for what purpose? If all their believers are just dying off and no young people are interested they will still die no matter how much financial capital they have.


"What's a mob to a king? What's a king to a god? What's a god to a non-believer?"

As for your dad, the way he did that while only telling you and leaving your grandfather to identify his body is sad for sure. But if he was in a great deal of pain with no quality of life and his condition was only going to get worse and worse... I mean in that situation I would do exactly the same thing. I would tell my whole family of my intentions and I doubt they'd be happy, but they'd understand given those circumstances, and likely a part of them would at least be relieved that I'd be put out of my misery to be honest even if it is difficult at first. What's the point in surviving without any quality of life?
 
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