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Social Justice White/Straight/Cis/Male Privilege

Of course it doesn't. And I'm not a believer in the "there are x people out there worse off than you so you can't complain" bs.

That said though, there are a lot of groups out there that experience a lot of disadvantage and prejudice that you don't get as a white male.

My problem isn't white males complaining about how much their life sucks, if you're unhappy you're unhappy and you don't have to justify it and you aren't magically happy just because you're not in a disadvantaged group.

My problem is people who pretend that being a white male is the REAL disadvantage, because that is bullcrap.

And hey, I'm a straight white female age 18-49 and citizen of a wealthy democratic country, 2 actually. I'm in one of the most privileged groups myself.
 
JessFR said:
That said though, there are a lot of groups out there that experience a lot of disadvantage and prejudice that you don't get as a white male.
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Do you get it as a white female?
If not, then why specifically say white male?

JessFR said:
My problem is people who pretend that being a white male is the REAL disadvantage, because that is bullcrap.
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First of all, nobody in this thread said that. Secondly, white cis males are basically the only group of people that don't get sympathy and get blamed for everything... I would understand more if people said males in general. It's still sexist and it still bothers me and I still think it's bullshit. But, white males is both sexist and racist.

I don't understand why you made this comment:

JessFR said:
It must be so hard being a white man who's a member of no minority groups.
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It seemed to come out of left field.
Who was it directed at?

Could I say, "It must be so hard to be Asian."
Or, "It must be so hard to be a white woman."

It baffles me when people make these blanket statements about men. Frankly it contributes to white males hating themselves and feeling alone and invisible and the very high suicide rate among white males.

Not sure if you care, but I (and many other white men) do not appreciate it.
 
It wasn't directed at anyone really.

w01fg4ng said:
To the political leaders who work to criminalize trans health care and deny our right to exist and to all of those with a massive platform who continue to spew hostility towards the trans community; you have blood on your hands...Enough is enough. You aren't being "cancelled," you are hurting people.


-Elliot Page
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This is what prompted it. The final sentence in particular. It made me think about people who get so upset that basically the world's changing and white men basically aren't given every advantage every time anymore.

I dunno why you should feel so offended. I'm not offended at the idea that I'm less disadvantaged than some other groups.

birdup.snaildown said:
Do you get it as a white female?
If not, then why specifically say white male?
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Ehhh, I live in a pretty progressive place where being a woman isn't especially disadvantageous.

Nothing like of I had been born in some other countries.

But that's the thing, this is a broad generalization. Of course you're gonna find some select situations where you're better off being female or gay or whatever.

But broadly speaking, straight white male 18-late 40s is pretty much the least disadvantaged group. Certainly in the western world anyway.
 
I'm not so offended. It bothers me because I've heard these generalizations about men my whole life... mostly from women. And - honestly - I don't see what advantage we have over women.

straight white male 18-late 40s is pretty much the least disadvantaged group
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Poor white kids don't have advantages over poor Asian kids in NZ or Australia. Aboriginal/Maori kids have certain advantages. Australian women have certain advantages. I can't think of a single advantage that white men have? You could argue that we don't have disadvantages. I don't think that's totally fair. Maybe we are the least disadvantaged group (maybe) but we are also the least advantaged... if that makes sense?

Rather than looking at race, it makes more sense to look at class. There are rich Asian kids in Australia / NZ / US that have way more advantages than poor white kids... and vice-versa. Race doesn't really have anything to do with it.

If you want to look at race statistics, though, sure, Aboriginals in Australia are less likely to have the head start that white kids have... but what about Asian kids?

I've never really heard of Asian Australians or Asian Americans arguing that they're disadvantaged relative to whites. I'm sure you can find some examples on the vastness of the internet, but it's pretty unusual.

In the US, Asians lose more points on their college applications. So logically they're more privileged (according to whoever decides these things)? Otherwise I'm not sure why they would be penalized for doing better than white kids.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Poor white kids don't have advantages over poor Asian kids in NZ or Australia. Aboriginal/Maori kids have certain advantages. Australian women have certain advantages. I can't think of a single advantage that white men have?
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You're kidding...
Aboriginals in Australia are severely disadvantaged pretty much all across the board. I mean just look at the prisons. Outside prison aboriginals kinda look like their share of the population, in prison, they're a huge proportion.

Go to any NA meeting and they're over represented.

Argue whatever you like for the cause, that's a disadvantage if you're born aboriginal.

And I say this as someone who's previously been called racist against aboriginals. (an extremely white looking aboriginal didn't take kindly to my suggestion that aboriginal specific welfare was racist)

birdup.snaildown said:
I'm not so offended. It bothers me because I've heard these generalizations about men my whole life... mostly from women. And - honestly - I don't see what advantage we have over women.
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As I said it's not so bad in most of the first world. But when I was homeless with my ex BF, I have a strong suspicion he didn't have to deal with the same kinda fear of being attacked or raped that I did.

I suspect men in general don't worry about it as much.

That's just one example off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others.
 
Men are attacked and killed at a much higher rate in Australia than women.

JessFR said:
You're kidding.
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Sorry, what specifically is the advantage that white men have over Aboriginal/Maori men?

You said there are a disproportionate number of Aboriginal people in jail and in NA. That's certainly an issue, but I don't see how it results from systemic disadvantage or lack of privilege... What is white Australia doing to Aboriginal people that result in them using drugs disproportionately or being incarcerated disproportionately?

I've looked into the Australian faction of the BLM movement via government statistics and I didn't conclude that there was any evidence of discrimination these days... neither did the royal commission. But, you're probably more familiar with the situation since I don't live there.

In NZ, there are advantages if you're Maori but there are no advantages for being white. It should be based solely around class, in my opinion. That way, everybody that needs help gets help... regardless of their skin color.

In the US, if you're black and you grow up in a wealthy neighborhood you get points added to your college application... whereas if you're a white "redneck" kid you lose points. That seems like a seriously flawed system to me. I'm pretty sure the same system (more or less) exists in Australia?
 
w01fg4ng said:
order to overcome common pitfalls associated with bigotry.
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There's much more problems than just bigotry that come with this. Personal agendas that are meant to further only and just the persons own needs. Personal idols and people they don't critique as much as they should etc.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
Men are attacked and killed at a much higher rate in Australia than women.
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are homeless men proportionally attacked by strangers at a higher rate than homeless women? Cause that's the specific example I was talking about.

I don't actually know. I don't claim too. I just know my ex BF didn't seem nearly as concerned about it.

birdup.snaildown said:
Sorry, what specifically is the advantage that white men have over Aboriginal/Maori men?

You said there are a disproportionate number of Aboriginal people in jail and in NA. That's certainly an issue, but I don't see how it results from systemic disadvantage or lack of privilege... What is white Australia doing to Aboriginal people that result in them using drugs disproportionately or being incarcerated disproportionately?

I've looked into the Australian faction of the BLM movement via government statistics and I didn't conclude that there was any evidence of discrimination these days... neither did the royal commission. But, you're probably more familiar with the situation since I don't live there.

In NZ, there are advantages if you're Maori but there are no advantages for being white. It should be based solely around class, in my opinion. That way, everybody that needs help gets help... regardless of their skin color.

In the US, if you're black and you grow up in a wealthy neighborhood you get points added to your college application... whereas if you're a white "redneck" kid you lose points. That seems like a seriously flawed system to me. I'm pretty sure the same system (more or less) exists in Australia?
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to life than college education points. The existence of exceptions don't actually change anything because noone here was saying that you're always better off being x in absolutely every situation.

As for why aboriginals are disadvantaged, I'm sure we could debate it all day, but it doesn't really matter for my original point. My original point, is you're disadvantaged by being born say aboriginal woman vs white man. The reasons why are only important for solving thay disparity, they aren't important for arguing that the disparity exists.

And this all started with my comment about white men bitching thay they're disadvantaged, I made fun of that. Why they're advantages isn't of relevance to that point.
 
JessFR said:
are homeless men proportionally attacked by strangers at a higher rate than homeless women? Cause that's the specific example I was talking about.

I don't actually know. I don't claim too. I just know my ex BF didn't seem nearly as concerned about it.



There's a lot more to life than college education points. The existence of exceptions don't actually change anything because noone here was saying that you're always better off being x in absolutely every situation.

As for why aboriginals are disadvantaged, I'm sure we could debate it all day, but it doesn't really matter for my original point. My original point, is you're disadvantaged by being born say aboriginal woman vs white man. The reasons why are only important for solving thay disparity, they aren't important for arguing that the disparity exists.

And this all started with my comment about white men bitching thay they're disadvantaged, I made fun of that. Why they're advantages isn't of relevance to that point.
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Most of the homeless are men, most of the violent crime victims are men, so I don't think that you need much mental gymnastics to reach a conclusion.
 

As a side note you aren't aboriginal are you? Now that would be interesting.

I'm an American but I used to go to a methadone clinic in Adelaide, Australia for a bit. It was called Warinilla Clinic. I met a woman here on bluelight years ago (in a romantic sense) and I went to stay with her for a while. I was on methadone at the time and ran out of my 90 day supply. It was rough I went from 380mg at that time to 180mg a day (the most they'd give me). There were some aboriginals there (the clinic) mixed with normal people and some what you guys called "bogans". I was of course the only American. I like Australia.

Of course you're probably not an aboriginal opioid using female but that would be interesting.
 
negrogesic said:
As a side note you aren't aboriginal are you? Now that would be interesting.

I'm an American but I used to go to a methadone clinic in Adelaide, Australia for a bit. It was called Warinilla Clinic. I met a woman here on bluelight years ago (in a romantic sense) and I went to stay with her for a while. I was on methadone at the time and ran out of my 90 day supply. It was rough I went from 380mg at that time to 180mg a day (the most they'd give me). There were some aboriginals there (the clinic) mixed with normal people and some what you guys called "bogans". I was of course the only American. I like Australia.

Of course you're probably not an aboriginal opioid using female but that would be interesting.
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Me? I doubt I have any aboriginal blood. I'm only half Australian to start with and I don't think virtually any of that half is aboriginal either. :P

My ancestry is pretty damn white.
Alas that makes be obligated to be at least 30% sorry at all times.
 
JessFR said:
are homeless men proportionally attacked by strangers at a higher rate than homeless women? Cause that's the specific example I was talking about.

I don't actually know. I don't claim too. I just know my ex BF didn't seem nearly as concerned about it.



There's a lot more to life than college education points. The existence of exceptions don't actually change anything because noone here was saying that you're always better off being x in absolutely every situation.

As for why aboriginals are disadvantaged, I'm sure we could debate it all day, but it doesn't really matter for my original point. My original point, is you're disadvantaged by being born say aboriginal woman vs white man. The reasons why are only important for solving thay disparity, they aren't important for arguing that the disparity exists.

And this all started with my comment about white men bitching thay they're disadvantaged, I made fun of that. Why they're advantages isn't of relevance to that point.
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[/QUOTE]

I think the point that white men are trying to make is that there is a double standard that has arisen to where they get all the blame for everything. For example, if you turn on the news you will often hear them throw out some statistic about how black people have a worse outcome in this or that particular statistic and it's just automatically assumed that this is because of racism. For example, if black people have higher levels of anxiety or higher suicide rate, white racism is obviously the cause but if it turns out whites actually have higher rates of these things it would never be blamed on racism if it even made the news.


Differences between demographics have all kinds of reasons behind them, so the standard shouldn't be that demographic differences shouldn't exist and if they do it's because of white racism and white privilege. That may be a cause, but it shouldn't automatically be assumed to be the cause and yet that is how these discussions are being framed and it has become almost impossible to discuss them in a rational manner. You will be attacked and vilified if you challenge the narrative. I don't understand how people don't see this as an issue. Are you saying white men should just accept this state of affairs because perhaps they enjoy other privileges? Wouldn't that be like saying you shouldn't complain if I scam you out of $20 because you have a lot more money than I do?
 
JessFR said:
This is what prompted it. The final sentence in particular. It made me think about people who get so upset that basically the world's changing and white men basically aren't given every advantage every time anymore.
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You know that Elliot Page is transgender right?

Why are you so off topic the gender discussion AGAIN?
 
DeadManWalkin' said:
There's much more problems than just bigotry that come with this. Personal agendas that are meant to further only and just the persons own needs. Personal idols and people they don't critique as much as they should etc.
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You should watch the video I posted just before this in the gender discussion thread. It covers this subject really well.
 
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