Random Which serial killers or true crimes intrigue you?

belligerent drunk

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Bundy was fascinating. Compelling. That last interview - profound. A treat.
Only just noticed this. That last interview with the religious guy? He was playing that motherfucker, successfully I might add, but he didn't mean a single word he said. If you watch earlier interviews, Bundy laughed at the idea that porn had had any influence on him, because it hadn't.

What Bundy wanted out of that interview was another stay of his execution.
 

Asclepius

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Actually, psychopaths tend to fall on the higher end of the intellect scale. That's why they are so successful. You may hear about the odd psychotic individual, but psychopaths who are good at manipulating other human beings, planning homicide and so on, they're quite smart.
Not necessarily - this is much the stereotype - if anything, they often fit the general IQ level, or lower ( some have exorbitantly high IQs like, Kempler, or Alcala, but this is an anomaly). In terms of manipulation of the concensus, yes. However, considering that pro-social behavior is more advantageous (according to evolutionary theory) this is where it falls short. I understand there is a thin line in terms of group-think and pro-social behaviour( from time to time) but there is a a discerning intelligence that can distinguish between the two and this is where the psychopathic personality meets it's deficits. It's a brain function anomaly - not just a charachter flaw i.e., one which we all may carry - its the difference between cognitive empathy and emotional empathy and how the former, causes an imbalance in the latter to form a composite means of analytics; as distinct from a purely, instrumental means.



In US, a death sentence means you stay on Death Row with plenty of appeals and other stuff available to you. Basically, if you play your cards right, you get at least 10 years of pretty costly imprisonment with all the lawyer-y running around one can conduct. You can appeal your cases to multiple courts, each appeal costing time and money of people working in the law industry. This article might interest you.
Thanks man, this is something I was not up to date on. Much appreciated. ;)



Lol, now that was unexpected. I'm politically correct? I recommend reading my posts.
I may have misjudged your intention, however, fiscal concerns do not over-ride justice for people; from my perspective ( but I understand the implications and yes, it's of pragmatic imortance albeit, the law could be changed ( ideally! - we can only (pipe)dream of a perfect system, eh!)
The scope of social and intra/intrerpersonal calamities ( on a micro/meso scale) and the financial burden from that, which damages society is a huge financial burden - however because it is a more qualitiative burden and is difficult to quantify on 'paper' ( as research often omits the grand scale of the cost-burden effect of such crimes; given their far reaching temporal, trajectories) is often overlooked. Hence my reason for being pro-death penalty ( not blood-lust).




To each their own. You can't change a human being in these extreme cases (or in most cases actually). It's not about compassion, it's about trying to understand the human mind no matter how depraved it may get, and trying to work from there. Burying your head in the sand won't stop humans from committing these acts. What we can do is try to understand, and using that knowledge - prevent the next case.
Totally agree. (apart from the fact that innocent victims; especially those of heinous crime, are deserved of compassion and justice and do not deserve negelect - if society isn't held accountable then it is dead to its function; that of restoring itself, imho)



Interestingly enough, that is how most psychopaths function. It's cold logic in order to attain their needs. Manipulation, deception, whatever. After all, we're all biochemical mechanisms at work and aren't beyond external stimuli like someone telling you they're going to help you. Easiest way to get into one's head is to pretend to be a friend willing to help.
There is a difference between average, functional manipulation and how the psychopathic brain functions; you have to understand that neurologically, there is no process happening with that function in the frontal lobe/amagdala - it aint there. It's wise not to conflate the two ( conscience musings of right and wrong do not occur in the psychopath's mind - it is awful to objectify people but this is why most empathise with the psychopath; we project ourselves; however, this is redundant, in these particular, circumstances) - the former holds a conscience and the other doesn't. Hard to imagine but not when you read the case studies.



The death penalty is a tricky subject. There have been many cases where wrong evidence, racism, political leaning, and other factors, have resulted in innocent people getting killed. Even in the most serious cases.
Very true.
 
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Asclepius

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We have so many in Florida they're an endless source of interest, but they're all overshadowed by Bundy. But then there's the underrated Gerald Stano, who might as been as prolific as Bundy, Judy Buenoano who liked to kill family members for insurance (the last woman to go to Old Sparky), the compellingly insane can't-look-away-like-a-bad-car-accident Aileen Wuornos, Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper, the list goes on and on and on...and on...

Supposedly Bundy's still hanging out on death row. His trial in the Kimberly Leach murder got moved to Orlando and you can still see where he scratched his name into the side of the defense table. The old courthouse is now the Orange County History Museum. I've taken multiple pictures of it - I'll try to find one. Apparently he had a much higher opinion of his intelligence than he actually was and thought if he could get away with murder in Florida, then he'd "won." (What, I have no idea) I read somewhere along the line that serial killers, except for ones that use explosives (think Ted Kaczynski) don't particularly have high IQs. He's a fascinating figure. PhD in mathematics from Michigan and faculty appointment at Berkeley by his early 20s. Left because he couldn't relate to people. Imagine that. This SNL skit with Will Ferrell as Kaczynski at his Harvard reunion never fails to make me laugh.

Interesting that you mentioned Aileen Wournos there ( not familar with the others, apart from Kaczynski). Imho Wurnos and Manson were mentally ill - understandably so; through the systemic, heinous emotional and sexual, neglect and abuse they incurred as children and subsequently the lack of support by the health-care/socialcare system; throughout their childhood, teens and adulthood - this could have been prevented, without a doubt. They themselves were obvious victims of severe and chronic abuse. So, why are they vilified?

Always find it fascinating (in an exhasberated sense) that the judgement of those who are obviously mentally ill andhave been seriously neglected by either their families, or society are primed for punishment.

If someone is involved in a school-shooting, for example, they are considered a criminal - however, if it is a kid in a school, or a few kids who commit suicide - it is deemed a tragedy.

Now, i understand that the motivation behind these two scenarios may differ. However, considering that both may be borne from a source of lack of integration, poor self-esteem, family/community dysfunction etc. - why would one be considered criminal and the other a tragedy; why would one (i.e., a school shooting ) be considered 'evil', rather than a symptom of a more extroverted expression of the collective dysfunction;rather than that of a suicide?

If it is a numbers game - i.e. the suicide kills him/er self and not many - does this not remind us of the psychopathic test; where if a person where asked if they could save a life of many, by sacrificing/endanging the lives of one or, two in a specific circumstance ( which the psychopath deems good - as its a numbers/rewards game); for the purpose of the task/experiemnt - it's interesting that the individual who holds the numbers saved, over the circumstantial value of human life, more important; are deemed psychopathic - as they are not encumbered by the moral dilemma; which causes trauma of empathising with the human suffering of all under threat of death, over the 'target' individuals killed ( sacrificed for the larger group), in the experiment.

This leads to the gravity of the question and the values of a nation/nations; that are enmeshed in defending one's will by the right to kill those who seem a threat to you, your territory, or your nation, by any means - then why would anyone have the right to judge a kid who murders others based on the fact that they were judged by such a society that sanctions this type of action when faced with such a dillema, by virtue of their constitution and more importantly; their cultural values?

In a war economy; psychopathy is an asset to get kids to conscript and fight the enemy- without question and for ' the greater good'. So why is this punished by a judicial system when the culture breeds this valuelessness; and rewards it, through many commercial and socio-political means. Is it trying to 'kill-off' those who cannot keep the secret that is has 'groomed' it's children to? Why are citizens not questioning the system that they are raising their children in/ seeing it as benign?
Surely it is the most sensitive children that pick-up on and adapt to the values of a culture?

In a system whose values are clouded in valuelessness. How can a perpetrator be brought to justice; when that system rewards the values of perpetrators; as part of it's cultural milleu? It's insane.

Not saying there shouldnt be laws or, boundaries but when the foundation of those laws and boundaries are based on a laizzes faire, collonialistic sense of narcissistic entitlement to perpetrate - where do the boundaries lie? Why have they not been since re-established; if it is such an 'outrage' to the social structure.

Are most perpetrators victims of a system that has failed to lead and organise a just society; are they just good, conformist players in an injust system; symptoms of the failure of a system that has neglected it's human values? Is it less a fact that there are more violent criminals and just terrorist-youths and adults that have learnt to be obsequious to the abbhorent and fundamental truths of their culture - legitimately, how does this render them totally culpable when they are charged with anti-social acts? Perhaps they are just less discerning of the paradox; less aware; lower in conscentiousness and higher in openness, of personality - why is this not a factor, in judging crime?

* Not to idealise or be unaware of genuinely dangerous criminals and their individual motivations, however...most are crafted from cultural and/financial circumstance rather than neurology.
 
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Asclepius

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You're right but Manson did a bit more than just "telling". He created a situation using psychological and ideological manipulation whereby people felt compelled to kill for him. That made him a dangerous guy but maybe not as dangerous as society thought.
He capitalised on a situation by exerting his influence by using various drugs to weaken the will of those kids in the cult. He was an 'impotent' feeling man, with a thirst for vengence on those he was envious of - as were the kids in his group - and he 'fed' off that and got-off on feeling empowered as a leader. Many of those kids were anti-authoritarian and anti-establishment ( run aways - hated their parents). Manson capitalised on this - it was easy pickings - he was like a 2 year old in a perpetual tantrum against his abusive mother and sent 'his army' out to attack those who were more successfull than him - and they were complicit - everyone was messed-up, chemically. Manson was just more messed-up, psychologically.

California had a spate of murders in the 60's-early 80's. It was a breeding gound for a cultural vacuousness.

That is not to justify murder but the fact that it happened in and at a time where there was little to no, social value or order established; is by no means a coincidence, it was very much a breeding-ground for some ill-symptomatic activity.

Nobody gave a shit about anything but vacuous ideologies that were clung-to; to justify lifestyles that were dysfuntional at worst, and fluff at best.

When people stop thinking and feeling - drug induced apathy, or otherwise; the vacum leads to anti-social forces( in various guises but evolves to less-benign ones). There is no doubt about it, we are a fickle and dumb species that frequently over-estimate our worth and integrity.
 
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swilow

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I thought I would uplift myself with the hideous story of Marc Dutroux, absolute monstrous pedophile and torturer of children, known for actually burying 2 of his victims alive. Utter fucking cunt who should be slowly dissolved in acid. Awful stuff and really much too dark to think about . . . but then I found out about the Brabant Killers, also from Belgium. A series of 28 murders over the space of 40 robberies during the 80's, usually netting around $10k per robbery and maybe a death or two. To this day, these guys have not been caught. Really interesting tale from a country I know little about, but it seems to have its weird side.

Despite its huge dose of hysterical and adolescent writing, this article is worth a read on the Brabant gang.
 

madness00

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Aside from the mega popular Bundy, BTK, Kemper and Dahmer, always found Luka Magnotta interesting.

The guy loves attention, so he killed a couple kittens in a vacuum seal bag and posted it online. On top of that, the guy loves taking pictures of himself and posting them online. Guy befriended a mentally retarded woman, online, and took ~$20,000 from her.. His presence is mostly online, until he killed an Asian kid and literally ate his ass (oh wait, he posted that online).

Just goes to show the length people will go to to get their name out there. I suspect if it weren't for the accessibility of attention via internet, he would have grown up an alright dude. Or at least, funneled his antisocial behaviors into more pro-social avenues, like becoming a famous hedge fund manager.
 

madness00

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I have watched a lot of gore as well, but the one video that really stuck with me out of them all was the one where some guy was tossing his toddler into a pool over and over again, and each time the kid would have less and less energy to make it up to the surface, until it drowned. That one pissed me off more than 2 guys 1 hammer.
 

Asclepius

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^ Magnotta is married in jail now...so, still eating ass but in the less literal sense, apparently.8o

Read about this only the other day, although it was probably all over the media. It's kind of like a metaphor for the shadow of the present zeitgeist - boring, shallow and psychopathic.

I thought I would uplift myself with the hideous story of Marc Dutroux, absolute monstrous pedophile and torturer of children, known for actually burying 2 of his victims alive. Utter fucking cunt who should be slowly dissolved in acid. Awful stuff and really much too dark to think about . . . but then I found out about the Brabant Killers, also from Belgium. A series of 28 murders over the space of 40 robberies during the 80's, usually netting around $10k per robbery and maybe a death or two. To this day, these guys have not been caught. Really interesting tale from a country I know little about, but it seems to have its weird side.

Despite its huge dose of hysterical and adolescent writing, this article is worth a read on the Brabant gang.
Mr. and Mrs. Dutroux were that for sure. Must look-up the Brabant Killers.
 
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Kenickie

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the Brabant thing was so interesting to me because it was so distinctive in terms of culture. These were not american men. Everything about them was so foreign to me that I felt like I learned something about Belgium -- the timing of the robberies, the anonymity, the way Belgium reacted. It was distinctly un-American, which of course makes it ever more interesting. I don't know. I usually listen to CASEFILE because its an anonymous host (less personality the better), really long shows (over an hour) and really measured and deadpan speaking. There is a Brabant episode which seems wild as fuck.
 

Asclepius

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^ that's still on my mental list of: things to find out about.

Listened to this podcast, a few weeks ago. Really good production; the Zodiac situation is tiresome but liked the way they interspersed excerpts of old radio-clips and interviews with the narrator and backing tracks, etc. - created the appropriate, goldilocks-esque, atmospheric tone, for the material. The cultural context of these occurances holds more intrigue and interest, to me also.

[video]https://monster-podcast.com/[/video]
 
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Zopiclone bandit

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Kenneth Douglas is my main one, he was a morgue attendant at Ohio, USA that got caught for having sex with over 100 dead women.
He would go to work & smoke crack then have sex (vaginal & anal) with the people in his care, even his wife knew what he was upto but said nothing about it.

There have been several songs made about this guy & what he got upto by Sludge bands

Kenneth Douglas faces a charge of gross abuse of a corpse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjkEPGZK6r8
 

Zopiclone bandit

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Ed Gein is also one I am very interested in but his quite well known of the world over.

I'll toss my hat into the ring here & if the hate flows upon me so let it be for what I am about to say...........
Theodore J. Kaczynski was a genius & his books should be read by everyone, his words are coming true sadly. Yes he did bad things but they were NOT that bad imho & I can kinda understand why he went on with his cause of actions. I am a proud fan of him & I make NO secret of it. I have his picture up in my flat & am proud to have read a lot of his works.
 

Zopiclone bandit

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Came across these darlings yesterday

Cannibal family 'confesses to killing and eating at least 30 people in Russia, where they kept human remains in the cellar of their house of horror and posed for selfies with body parts'
An alleged 'cannibal family' has admitted to killing and eating at least 30 people over a period of 18 years, it was reported today.
Police are understood to have found eight body parts, and are checking for more human remains to assess the veracity of the confessions.
A man aged 35, named as Dmitry Baksheev from Krasnodar in southern Russia, was identified as having told interrogators he began his macabre reign of terror in 1999. His picture was released along with an alleged woman victim, also 35, who was not named.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4916962/Cannibal-family-admits-killing-eating-30-Russia.html
 

nuttynutskin

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Russians are crazy lol. I remember watching something on a Russian prison and one of the inmates had gotten into a fight with his neighbor and killed him, then turned him into sausage and gave some of the sausage to his other neighbors.
 
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