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Misc Which is Safest Long Term: Remeron, Ambien, or Secobarbital?

Where are you going to get secobarbital from??? That's an extremely rare drug nowadays... Mandrax (methaqualone) is actually easier to get hold of.

The closest thing to Seconal would probably be Soma (carisoprodol). It's a powerful muscle relaxant and a prodrug to meprobamate; an old school sedative of the carbamate variety that basically works like a short-acting barbiturate but with a better safety profile. It's VERY strong shit... feels like GHB but with a lot more muscle relaxation.
 
I've been taking zolpidem for years without any dependency or addiction issues, but there are a lot of people on here with stories of it causing problems for them. Guess it depends on the person.

The trippy onset effects go away pretty quickly, once you start taking it regularly.

Unfortunately, no one can tell you anything definite about long term safety of any sleeping pills - that's just not been studied. This is the main reason they're generally prescribed for short-term use. It's not that they're known to be dangerous, it's that we don't have any data one way or the other.
 
AA357 said:
Where are you going to get secobarbital from??? That's an extremely rare drug nowadays... Mandrax (methaqualone) is actually easier to get hold of.

The closest thing to Seconal would probably be Soma (carisoprodol). It's a powerful muscle relaxant and a prodrug to meprobamate; an old school sedative of the carbamate variety that basically works like a short-acting barbiturate but with a better safety profile. It's VERY strong shit... feels like GHB but with a lot more muscle relaxation.
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I have a feeling my doctor would prescribe me a Barbiturate if i ask him. He might not even know what it is but he would probably write the script.
 
SixBuckets said:
I've been taking zolpidem for years without any dependency or addiction issues, but there are a lot of people on here with stories of it causing problems for them. Guess it depends on the person.

The trippy onset effects go away pretty quickly, once you start taking it regularly.

Unfortunately, no one can tell you anything definite about long term safety of any sleeping pills - that's just not been studied. This is the main reason they're generally prescribed for short-term use. It's not that they're known to be dangerous, it's that we don't have any data one way or the other.
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Does the sleep walking thing go away too? Cause that's the thing i am really scared about on Ambien.
 
TheSacredTree said:
Does the sleep walking thing go away too? Cause that's the thing i am really scared about on Ambien.
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I still occasionally get up in my sleep and drink all the milk out of our fridge (why just the milk? Nobody knows!) but most nights I stay in bed. I've never journeyed further than my kitchen, to my knowledge.
 
TheSacredTree said:
I have a feeling my doctor would prescribe me a Barbiturate if i ask him. He might not even know what it is but he would probably write the script.
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Why do you think that? If this is a real doctor, I'm sure he knows what a barbiturate is. A doctor would be out of his mind to prescribe you secobarbital for sleep. It is rarely prescribed for anything.

Mitrazepine is a terrible drug in my opinion, and the same goes for Trazodone. Both are antidepressants that don't knock me out in any way. I have no depression issues and I feel that taking any sort of antidepressant is not worth the potential for it to mess with the reuptake of certain chemicals, depending on it's action of course. They make some people drowsy, but I don't see them actually knocking anyone out like something such as a benzo would.

I'd vote for the zolpidem since it doesn't unnecessarily act as an antidepressant and isn't as dangerous as a barbiturate.
 
hatrix said:
Why do you think that? If this is a real doctor, I'm sure he knows what a barbiturate is. A doctor would be out of his mind to prescribe you secobarbital for sleep. It is rarely prescribed for anything.

Mitrazepine is a terrible drug in my opinion, and the same goes for Trazodone. Both are antidepressants that don't knock me out in any way. I have no depression issues and I feel that taking any sort of antidepressant is not worth the potential for it to mess with the reuptake of certain chemicals, depending on it's action of course. They make some people drowsy, but I don't see them actually knocking anyone out like something such as a benzo would.

I'd vote for the zolpidem since it doesn't unnecessarily act as an antidepressant and isn't as dangerous as a barbiturate.
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I asked the question in the first place so i definitely will not question your answer when you choose the zolpidem, but just curious, what makes Remeron and Trazodone terrible? Not saying it isn't, just genuinely interested.
 
TheSacredTree said:
I asked the question in the first place so i definitely will not question your answer when you choose the zolpidem, but just curious, what makes Remeron and Trazodone terrible? Not saying it isn't, just genuinely interested.
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Drowsiness is just a side effect of those drugs. And only in some people. To me it's just like taking diphenhydramine for sleep, only worse because it's an antidepressant. It won't PUT you to sleep, just slightly cause drowsiness to PROMOTE sleep, which if you really can't fall asleep well is IMO useless.

These are of my own personal experiences. Unless it's mechanism causes sleep, it's not good for actual insomnia.
 
True. To test it today i took my Remeron at 11:30. It's now 1:15 and i'm not tired in the slightest. They help in making me get to sleep once i'm lying in bed (which i was never able to do before) but they don't make me want to go to bed at all since i'm not physically tired.
 
TheSacredTree said:
True. To test it today i took my Remeron at 11:30. It's now 1:15 and i'm not tired in the slightest. They help in making me get to sleep once i'm lying in bed (which i was never able to do before) but they don't make me want to go to bed at all since i'm not physically tired.
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Exactly my point. If you really have insomnia and need the drug assisted help you want an actual hypnotic. Temazepam is a good benzo for it, or zolpidem when looking at z drugs.

They will all carry addiction risks though, of course.
 
That's disappointing that you say Remeron is no good...I'm currently on Trazadone and Ambien for insomnia, but I was somewhat interested in trying mitrazepine after hearing some good things about it from people on here. Trazadone doesn't really make me tired, though...lately all it does is make it very hard to get out of bed, very sluggish.
 
Burnt Offerings said:
That's disappointing that you say Remeron is no good...I'm currently on Trazadone and Ambien for insomnia, but I was somewhat interested in trying mitrazepine after hearing some good things about it from people on here. Trazadone doesn't really make me tired, though...lately all it does is make it very hard to get out of bed, very sluggish.
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I mean you can always try it, but I personally wouldn't be expecting anything great. If you are already on ambient it seems almost pointless.
 
Burnt Offerings said:
That's disappointing that you say Remeron is no good...I'm currently on Trazadone and Ambien for insomnia, but I was somewhat interested in trying mitrazepine after hearing some good things about it from people on here. Trazadone doesn't really make me tired, though...lately all it does is make it very hard to get out of bed, very sluggish.
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It actually worked great for my depression and sleep (as i said, once in my bed) for the first year. But it did stop working for sleep once i got a tolerance to it. But it's pretty much abolished my depression so if you need it for that then i'd say it's worth a shot.
 
Yes i would highly recomend ambien because its not habit forming, nut if you have insomnia look into things that help you sleep so you can stop using presprection medication to solve problems. anyways someone mentioned 100mg trazadone, i know you dont want SSRI but trazadone is actually a SARI which is was suppose to be, at first, but then turns out the side effect of trazdone is it makes you sleepy! its a sedative/hypnotic. i personally took trazadone and there is a 30 minute window you have to go to sleep before it wears off, and once it wears off no matter how much more you take your not sleeping. But i loved it cause it was just like being high on weed, i had the munches and eyes glazed over and red and i was always in a good mood when i woke up, no groggyness. Ambien on the other hand is better, i have taken that aswell and has no window, you just keep getting sleepier until you fall asleep, plus you wake up so refreshed even more than the Trazadone.

TL;DR Ambien much better for sleep but habit forming

Trazadone has 30 minute window to sleep but much less abuse potential / habit forming

Also you can take Chlorpromazine (Thorazine) but i heard it makes you groggy when you wake up
 
30 minute window. Well that probably wouldn't work well for me then. Generally takes me like 1 to 2 hours between my normal pill taking routine and getting to bed.
 
id recommend clonidine for occasional sleep
 
Seconal / secobarbital is great for extremely severe short term insomnia. Tolerance builds rapidly.

Ambien / Zolpidem tartrate is IMO useless but some find it helpful for insomnia related to falling asleep, but that it really sucks at insomnia that is related to STAYING asleep throughout the night until morning.

Also, while it may not do a damn thing for insomnia as I have found to be the case in my extensive experience with all three of the drugs you've inquired about, of all of them, zolpidem/ambien is by far the most likely to produce psychoactive/hallucinogenic side effects even at relatively low dosing levels, which is not usually the desired effect of an insomniac, to trip out and hallucinate or black out and do stupid shit, and STILL, not get any sleep... Plus it's incredibly short half life makes it just a disaster waiting to happen in terms of how quick you get tolerant and dependent or addicted to it.

Remeron / Mirtazepine is probably the safest long term option here, but even still I have mixed feelings about condoning the long-term use of anti-depressant medications for any indication including insomnia. Mirtazepine is going to be the least habit forming, side effects include munchies and dehydration if you don't drink enough water. It's potency as a sleeping pill varies widely person to person, but if you know it works for you out of the three drugs you listed, this is the safest one to use long term IMO.
 
tricomb said:
Ambien / Zolpidem tartrate is IMO useless but some find it helpful for insomnia related to falling asleep, but that it really sucks at insomnia that is related to STAYING asleep throughout the night until morning.
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Have you tried the extended release version? I found it marginally better for this.
 
hatrix said:
Exactly my point. If you really have insomnia and need the drug assisted help you want an actual hypnotic. Temazepam is a good benzo for it, or zolpidem when looking at z drugs.

They will all carry addiction risks though, of course.
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Temazepam is great but loses effectiveness quickly if you take it every day especially with a daily dose of another benzo, which the OP already said he does.. Klonopin. I take 30mg-60mg of restoril myself, but not more than 3-4 times a week and i try not to take more than 20-40 mg of valium a day 3-4 times a per week either.. or both stop working... in that case i might drop an extra 100mg of Topamax and a few Neurontin but then i'm certain to be groggy into the next day..

before i was on subs and trying to stay clean, 30 days Saturday :), i'd just eat some soma, with the benzos and that'd do it.. but now i try not to take anything not already prescribed to me and i generally stay within my prescribed daily doses...
 
TheSacredTree said:
I have a feeling my doctor would prescribe me a Barbiturate if i ask him. He might not even know what it is but he would probably write the script.
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I don't think you understand just how rare and strictly controlled Seconal is. The world's supply of this drug is so low that it's damn near unobtainable, even on the black market. If you were lucky enough to find a source for it, I'm sure it would be ridiculously expensive.
AFAIK it's only used in hospitals for things like general anesthesia and even then it's not very common. Propofol seems to be favored nowadays and even that's damn near impossible to get hold of unless you're an anesthetist.

If your doc writes you a script for a barbiturate, it'll be phenobarbital. Short-acting barbs like secobarbital are no longer prescribed for insomnia. Go find yourself some Mandrax... by the sounds of it, it's better than Seconal anyway.
 
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