Benzos which is more addicting? (opiates or benzos)

[keeping]

I can shoot hydromorphone for a week and then just lay down the needle without thinking about them again for months. I could get free IR hydromorphone any day

free intrarectal hydros? do go on...

 

[crOOk]

My friend's buddy's girl friend's mom died and left a 100L trash bag half full with prescription meds, mostly benzos and opiates. Other than my friend nobody had need for them so he got them all. I have no idea how many years it took her and how many doctors she was seeing at the same time, but I've honestly only seen this many prescription meds in a non-clinical environment once before (a former very close friend who stashed roughly 600L of benzo blisters in boxes for personal use).

Anyway, I occasionally ask him to bring some when he comes over to see me. These aren't intrarectal preparations though. They're capsules and tablets, don't quite remember which of the two is the IR form since it's been a few months, but I think caps come in both IR and XR while the tabs are XR. I can actually get a rush out of the XR ones too by purely mechanical processing, but 3/4 of the substance remain for oral use unless I use large volumina of water which I afterwards reduce etc. Not worth the effort. The other day I asked him if he still had some left to which he replied: Only a couple of thousand.

Another friend's grand mother is receiving morphine and hydromorphone IV solution for breakthrough pain management. He prefers using them orally though instead of handing them over to me for abusing them the way they are supposed to be abused (or leaving them to his grandmother). Bastard.

 

[keeping]

damn son..

 

[crOOk]

Wait till I tell you that half my friends just turned doctors. ;D Can't wait till they have their own practices and can prescribe the good shit to me. You wouldn't believe how badly some of these guys are into drugs. There's a group of roughly 20 doctors who party and travel together (think rain forest). Each of them makes my body look like a sanctuary. I've never met as many people who did DMT as I did during my time studying medicine. Surely did not expect that.

I'd really like to use IV morphine again. That pins and needles rush is oddly fascinating.

EDIT: One of those doctors, a lawyer and a star chef (generic joke incoming) recently went to this really fucked up hardstyle outdoor a few 100km from home (yes, such events still do exist) and decided it was a good idea to take 8mg DOC each (on top of whatever speed/ketamine/MDMA/GHB cocktail they already had). Took 10 mins for them to start sweating, 15 to be drenched in sweat. Brains unplugged.

The doctor finds himself in a lucid dream like state where he could control the environment and who enters the stage.
He decided to talk to his brother for a bit and summoned his friend into the dreamscape as well. This took place in a huge white hall with my friend sitting on a gigantic throne made of clouds. His brother tells him that their mum is gonna join them soon. "Cool, let's go take a walk until then" he says, but his brother tells him it's best if he stays here so his mom will not have to look for him when she arrives. He decided he would still leave for that long anticipated walk through the dreamworld, but soon realizes that his hands are tied to the throne. He chuckles and looks around.
There's a table next to him with a napkin on it. It read "Klinikum Dortmund". It was in that moment that he came to realize he's strapped to the bed of an intensive care unit. :D
Apparently the medics saw him stumbling about and tried to talk to him when the scene drew attention of some policemen. His friends however claimed he was "totally fine" at that point. If that is true I have no idea why they'd inject him with 4 times an anesthetic dose of both propofol and midazolam though. He may have resisted because he knew exactly he was indeed just fine.
He later just claimed someone must have dosed his drink. Who wouldn't believe a good and honest doctor right?

The chef wakes up to himself walking down the street with all his shit gone, including his shirt and shoes, but not the drugs in his socks. So he keeps wandering around the city's central station for a few hours until he decides it's time to seek the homeless shelter for some free tea and a meal where he sees quite a few familiar he met on that hardcore festival earlier. With his stomach stuffed and him still not having regained his language skills, he leaves the place and comes to realize that he has no way whatsoever to get home or even make a phone call, being naive to the art of bumming money off passers by.
In his desperation he seeks the closest police station. The officers simply tell him to "piss off" and go back to the homeless shelter he came from. That was actually the best thing that could've happened there, considering he had 6 different substances stashed inside his socks.
He eventually went back to the shelter and had the guy there make a phone call so he could afford a ticket home. Unfortunately the only number he knew was his parents'. The clever social engineer that the guy working at the homeless shelter must have been manages to tell his mum her son is just really drunk and he gets his ticket home.

The lawyer wakes up to himself lying in a puddle of mod and some guy asking him why he'd do that. Alas I don't have any more information on his story.

So what do we learn from this? Just because you are able to drop 6mg DOC during periods of heavy use in the Rio de Janeiro zoo on a national holiday and be fine (long blonde hair and all), doesn't mean you can drop round about the same amount with no tolerance. That medicine man is actually one of the most moderate of the bunch in his drug use patterns. Makes you never want to go see a doctor again doesn't it?

 

[ShroomySatori]

I haven't managed to kick pot after 18 years of daily use, but I don't care for benzos at all. Everyone is different. Everyone will suffer from any type of addiction.

I agree with what you're saying (like, overall, not just this quote), and I think a lot of addiction is personality dependent. For example, I can go a a coke binge for a day or two (or even have a nice line, jam my guitar, and put it down), and use meth occasionally and productively for a day or two max, but opiates I am a beastly fiend for and they rule my life.

I managed to kick pot after 10 years of growing good shit, and smoking over an ounce a week along with dabs all day and many different strains. You know how? I had to lock myself in a cabin the woods for 6 months. During which time, all I did was think about weed, when I'd be able to smoke again (even though it was giving me panic attacks at that point whenever I would smoke), reading high times magazines, learning more about growing, and watch people on youtube smoke bong. Friends who came to visit were NOT allowed to bring any cannabis products, which really pissed some of them off to the point that they would bail on a nice weekend on the lake. I tried explaining that I had become a straight up addict and really needed to quit as it was burning me out, but since they only smoke at nights, and not bong tokes all day to the max, as well as consider cannabis to be a non-addictive medicine for everyone (I'm not denying it can have very positive properties, just that some people get out of hand with it) they just couldn't understand and got offended unfortunately.

6 months later, I smoked a hit pretty much right when I got home and had the worst panic attack of my life. A switch flicked and I didn't even think about it for three years, and when people would smoke it around me it was just a foreign entity I had no interest in anymore and hardly remembered what it was like. Last, year, after all that I STILL went back to it and dabbed all day every day and smoked blunts all year long non stop. It zapped my creativity with guitar and was generally a huge waste of time (I'm not judging stoners, I'm judging myself).

Also, after 10 years of non-stop use I had mild physical withdrawals for two weeks. I could not eat food to the point that I would eat a small piece of pizza and 10 minutes later be out in the backyard puking my guts out. It took several days for me to be able to eat anything at all really, without puking, and at least two weeks to a month to be able to eat a decent meal. A month to be able to sleep. I got as skinny as I got in hardcore oxycodone withdrawals. I'm not dissing weed by the way. I just have a huge propensity for abusing cannabis, something that is non-addictive or at least controllable for the vast majority. I was smoking it almost like a crack fiend. I'd take a hit 15 minutes after a bong rip and not even feel any effects, but keep chasing it. This went on for way too long, and I will personally never smoke it again even though I love it in many ways.

Anything can fuck you up. Physical addiction doesn't really matter in my opinion. It just means you have to taper off. What matters to me are the more cognitive effects and the psychological dependency that can develop in which you feel the need to have a substance in your body at all times or you can't function or feel right.

So these days I use my dab rig for hitting dmt on occasion. A lot of people who studied mathematic physics were heavy into drugs.

 

[crOOk]

Are you saying pot is addictive?! It saved my whole family from getting cancer!!! To quote Bill Burr it's "Fred Flintstone vitamine pills".

I'm so sick and tired of hearing that same shit over and over from the pro-pot community. Soon I will make my own documentary on the subject and present some proper information. Fucking pot industry has a bigger propaganda machinery than tobacco these days. I still love pot though.

Quite wild what you did there and very consequent. I have huge respect for you taking such drastic measures and pulling through with them.

I do get withdrawals from pot myself, even if I taper down to 10mg of bud per night lol. Sweating, mood, nightmares, vomiting (it's called cannabis hyperemesis syndrome btw) mostly. Quite serious compared to say kicking speed. I could do a gram street speed a day for 2-3 years and just feel better starting from the morning I don't dose. Really tired, but great appetite and great relaxation. I'd just lock myself in for three days and watch movies which was thoroughly enjoyable each time. Post acute cravings are practically non-existant. Pot however... Fuck, it's got my balls in a vice-grip.

And I repeat what you said: Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing weed. I fucking love weed. But we need to start being honest about it's effects, be they positive or negative.

 

[ShroomySatori]

It's always nice to see someone with the exact same view on the subject. I agree with everything you are saying and have had the same thoughts myself. Although, I am shitty with sarcasm at first so your first few lines there through me off... I threw you were being serious : p man I gotta work on catching onto sarcarsm lol.

By the way, I'd be a part of the documentary man, share my experience. It fucked up a huge portion of my youth and I don't care what the pro-pot community says about my "oh, he just had pre-existing issues." Well, no shit. The weed made everything much worse for me.

I fucking love weed too man. But I fucking love heroin too, you know what I'm saying? I recently was thinking of dabbing hash oil again, and this helped me realize that it was a really bad idea. Cravings come and go even years later. Thanks a lot for the respect comment. That actually really meant a lot to me, I smiled. I should be proud, I used to fiend that stuff hardcore and spend maybe like 20 grand a year? Intelligent, he has his shit together non-addictive right? After all, he's just a pothead he doesn't use the bad stuff. Most people think I'm a pussy for not smoking weed, and there must be something wrong with me if I can't enjoy cannabis.

I'm not dissing weed, I'm still not dissing it. Puking my guts out several times a day going cold turkey from a weed habit, which was obviously a result of smoking and dabbing way too much, made me frustrated when it's not even acknowledged as a thing. I also could not taper, like I can with opiates, it just didn't work. It was truly all or nothing. Apart from those who know me, and they said themselves - they didn't even know it could get that bad and were really surprised. Of course, most of the stoners didn't believe a word that I said and probably put me off as "crazy." But here in Canada, we are on the verge of legalization (of which I am all for, I am all for full legalization of all drugs in fact). The thing that bothers me is how obnoxious the stoners are. They started open completely illegal open-air drug markets because they can't wait for their little weed to become legal, and then when they get raided they freak out and revolt with opening up even more shops. With any other drug, would this type of obnoxious behaviour occur? I really don't think so man. People would be respectful and wait for the government to work out legalization ammendments and be damn grateful.

I hate when stoners flaunt their weed use too... like within two minutes of meeting a dude you know he's a chronic pot smoker. Nobody, except a very select few people, know that I am an opiate addict. I keep it to myself, and if I flaunted it in the same way I'd get shit from everyone and probably wouldn't even be able to be a healthy member of society. It's bullshit. So legalize speed and heroin, cocaine as well if you're legalizing weed. I'm just being honest. I love weed. I just got totally swept away by it until it became the only thing that mattered in my life for a really long time.

 

[crOOk]

They just legalized weed in Germany. You can get up to 100g pot on prescription now. No indication in particular required. Health insurance obliged to pay for it. That is fucking ridiculous if you ask me. How the fuck could they just do a 180 like that?! Fucking irresponsible. I could talk about this for hours, but this is not the time and place.

You know, I am actually sitting down with a film maker this week and will brainstorm a little as to where this could go and what format it should have. There just isn't a single good documentary that covers the subject the way it should be covered. I was thinking it may be a really good thing to interview some users for it. So I will definitely get back to you if this happens. If it does and things go well, reports on other drugs will follow.

I've had a lot of great plans that fell victim to my bipolar disorder though, so I hope this is gonna go better than past projects.

EDIT: I am totally smoking some primo cheese now. I hope you don't get triggered do you?

 

[keeping]

lets do a documentary on opiates and you can just film me over six months (y) :D

 

[crOOk]

Sounds exciting, but nothing beats HBO's Black Tar Heroin. I am sure you've seen it. If you have not, do it today. I think it's on youtube. I must've watched it a thousand times by now. The soundtrack is really fucking good too. One such example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Qj2_OJsJQ

This one definitely belongs to the top ten documentaries ever produced. I'm not talking drug documentaries. If a person can not develop deep empathy for the people in this movie (Oreo, Jessica, Jake and all the others), there is something wrong.

We totally hijacked this thread.

 

[56nights]

Benzo WD can kill you. And MILLIONS of people are PRESCRIBED it every day including me. Benzos win.

 

[DriftingShade]

I would say that for me personally, Opiates are more addictive mentally than Benzos. However, Benzos are far more deadly when it comes to heavy withdrawals. People can have Grand Mal seizures and die from that shit. Whereas with Opiates, you end up vomiting and having the sweats for a week then you're fine. Interesting topic to think about.

 

[56nights]

Nah bro not after the nausous feeling of taking 4 tabs. Makes me not wanna ever take again. But take 4 bars and makes me wanna take 6 next night

 

[white55]

They just legalized weed in Germany. You can get up to 100g pot on prescription now. No indication in particular required. Health insurance obliged to pay for it. That is fucking ridiculous if you ask me. How the fuck could they just do a 180 like that?! Fucking irresponsible. I could talk about this for hours, but this is not the time and place.

You know, I am actually sitting down with a film maker this week and will brainstorm a little as to where this could go and what format it should have. There just isn't a single good documentary that covers the subject the way it should be covered. I was thinking it may be a really good thing to interview some users for it. So I will definitely get back to you if this happens. If it does and things go well, reports on other drugs will follow.

I've had a lot of great plans that fell victim to my bipolar disorder though, so I hope this is gonna go better than past projects.

EDIT: I am totally smoking some primo cheese now. I hope you don't get triggered do you?

Haha, just watching the last nights news (don't you just love modern technology and the whole time shifting thing), and apparently they legalised it here too. The report is a bit sketchy on the details, but lol. To bad it's just pot, but it's a start, right?

 

[gmlifer]

For me it's oxycodone any day of the week. I had a Xanax run and it was easy for me to walk away from, oxy on the other hand has become an issue.

Either addiction sucks and can become very expensive. If I were to say which addiction is worse I would say a benzo addiction is the more harmful of the two. And of course the mother load is if you are addicted to both.

 

[HezzaD]

I feel opiate withdrawal is more psychologically addictive as benzo withdrawal can kill you.e
I had to go 3 days without diazepam 12mg a day, oxycodone 60mg a day, pregab 600mg a day and quetiapine 100mg in hospital, I was headbutting wall throwing up every 10mins crying asking them to kill me!!!d
I had took an overdose of 50mg methadone and 40tramadol, i feel I didnt have a seizure due to being on sodium valporate or was very lucky, had no ill effects I alsolac drank 300ml of vodka 40percent I was trying to die and just got really high and slept for 14hours I did wake up in a black out state as nurse was checking me and supposedly threatenied to kill her as she just woke me up I do not remember this but some randomer in hospital told me whilst out having a ciggy.
Luckily for the first day i had no withdrawal due to the methadone soon as the methadone wore off fuck me, I thought since it was the 3rd day I was through the worse, i was so wrong...I never wanna experience that again.. I was gonna cut down after that day but what did the hospital do prescribe me a weeks worth of tabs and so did the drs automatically and I had a weeks worth at home so had like 2 and half weeks oxycodone instead of a week at home crushed 60 on way backj from hospital had an amazing high. omg opiates are so bad but so good
and when i cut down from 10mg diazepam to just 2mg a day and 10mg temazepam i felt like I was on speed in a horrible way, went manic.

 

[crOOk]

40tramadol

4g? If you're not susceptible to seizures, it is not that likely you are gonna suffer one from a high dose of tramadol.

 

[ShroomySatori]

EDIT: I am totally smoking some primo cheese now. I hope you don't get triggered do you?

It's more just nostalgia but I can really crave it sometimes. I haven't used cannabis since last September, and that was just a a brief run, after my 3 years of quitting. I don't see myself using it again at all. It was amazing at first, but my tolerance rose so fast and after about a month or two it was as boring as breathing air, just much more expensive. Now I know, that even after a 3 year break, it does me no good. It didn't help my pain (coughing fits made it worse, in fact), nor my anxiety, nor my depression, nor my BPD. So when will it? Never. It helps me sleep on schedule, but then I can never remember my dreams. I like to keep a dream journal now, and that's actually a really interesting part of my life.

I loved smoking the uk cheese strain last year. I just took 500mg oral morphine after a long afternoon nap, so that should be a nice little treat for this Friday evening. I love oral morphine, unlike a lot of people. I read a study recently that shows those addicted to morphine absorb larger amounts of the drug orally, and also at higher doses like in the few hundreds of milligrams more of the drug is absorbed than at lower doses. Pretty interesting, I wonder how it works but this will hold me over for at least 24 hours and I have an ~80mg oxycodone habit these days. I know 80mg oxy should = 120mg morphine but in my experience it's not like that... morphine has less pep, it's more chill, and subtle comparatively.

I could go on, and on, and on about it too, and for a long time I did. There was a lot I had to process about the way it impacted my life. It's not a straightforward drug like a benzo that will calm you down if you panic, or an opiate that will take away your pain. Although, according to a friend of mine, it's not even a drug man, it's a herbal supplement I use for weightlifting. Well, that's great man, until he sees me taking a percocet and immediately bitches me out. He tries to "have a talk" with me like I'm a fucking child. And tries to sell me crappy outdoor weed at a low price (nobody would really buy it anyway) that he says will treat the extreme agony in my spine. He was so obnoxious about the oxycodone that I actually haven't spoken to him since. I know what those potheads say about me, and it's not cool man. I really am just a junkie to them, and this drug is supposed to be mind expanding?

 

[Methacodone]

This to me is not even close..Opiates are by far more addicting.

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

Depends which one lights your candle most - benzos seem potentially a worse addiction though