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What to do if a GHB overdose occurs

gorwell1984

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my wife went through this

Neither myself or anyone in which I know have ever done or been around GHB.

A year ago I bought a bottle of what was supposed to be liquid methaqualone (Parist)
I gave my wife a teaspoon full one Friday night. About 1 hour later she was in a coma. I was in another room and I heard a big thud on the floor in our kitchen. I knew from the sound that she had fallen out of her chair.
I rushed up stairs to see what had happened and found her comatose, unresponsive. I was obviously horrified and didn't really want to call the paramedics due to drugs on the complex etc.
I lay her on a couch turned sideways and kept checking her vital signs every 3 minutes. I was hoping she would wake up, but after 5 hours I called paramedics.
They rushed her to the emergency room and put her on life support and a ventilator. She woke up around 4pm that afternoon, after being admitted around 6am that morning. The blood test results came back showing nothing. I started thinking that it must have not been quaaludes.

She fully recovered over a few days in the hospital and finally got to come home.

As I stated above I had not even heard of GHB in my life.
But a few months later I read an article discribing a GHB coma and everything matched perfectly to her symptoms.
If I had only known it was GHB that sold to me by the Canadian drug source It could have saved us both and the doctors allot of uncertainty.

That's the worst. Not knowing what drug it actually was. The whole time I thought it was liquid methaqualone.
 

soaringhigh

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drplatypus, stop using a bitchy tone in responding to others here. This is the second post I've read where you've responded like that. Would you want others to infer that you're an angry, awkward, gay male because your posts are calculated at insulting others? I doubt it.
 

drplatypus

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Bite Me, Soaringhigh.
My saving the scrawny little necks of petulant adolescent overdoses every weekend gives me the right to say whatever the fuck I like, whenever I like in a forum of my choosing. And if it pisses me off when someone talks shite about drugs I'll say so, in any way I bloody well choose. If you have a problem with that, well it's a big bad world out there, and you probably need to see a bit more of it before you come galloping to the rescue of those perfectly capable of defending themselves... I suggest you read more than 2 of my posts before you come to a conclusion about my character...8)
As to using 'gay' as a pejorative... bit rich for someone complaining about insensitivity, isn't it? What are you, some sort of 11 year old homophobe?=D
 

inimical

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Quite informative.
 

person

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Was at a party one time and a person there was g-ed out and unconscious on the couch. Someone had a bottle of amyl nitrate and put the bottle against her nose, that woke her up almost instantly!?? just a thought!? Theres been a few deaths here in NZ over GHB, my mate who "rinses" out almost daily for the past couple years has turned into a complete nutter ;( he cant even talk, pretty sad for those who are addicted to it...
 

sdgjkhsdgh

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If the person just drank alot of G and it didn't kick in yet, make him puke ASAP. That can be done by puting 2 fingers in the throat. However if the person is passed out, call 911 RIGHT AWAY and say they did G. Its a good thing to always write "GHB" on your hand when you drinking the shit so other people who find you dead on the floor know the cause...
 

synchrojet

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Drplatypus --

While I respect the fact that you are obviously an educated individual, I must point out that you have not factored in the correlation of rising GHB/GBL/BDO overdoses and deaths with the criminalization of the substances in question.

Surely you can see that not only does this result in the likelhood of a contaminated substance being ingested, it also certainly results in a nebulous collection of batches that have varying potencies.

Factor this with the lack of general knowledge about GHB andits pre/postcursors, and of course there will be a rising number of 'incidents'.

GHB is non-toxic, period. This is bourne out by over thirty years of study and citings in a plethora af medical journals. When certain politicians needed electing, GHB suddenly got toxic.

Also, there has yet to be a single incident of a GHB induced death actually proven wherein GHB was the ONLY substance ingested. In every single reference that someone has cited to me, (certainly I cannot claim to know of all of them, so please do not mistake me for a charlatan), I researched and discovered that there was either a history of drug use in general or absolute knowledge of other drugs being utized simultaneously with the GHB.

The eleven exceptions to that were all citings involving GHB that was sold on the street. Let's not forget that bathtub chemists aren't always interested in clean drugs, and there is a very very good chance that out of all of the thousands of batches of GHB being made there must certainly be some that re not properly executed, and either contain harmful contaminates such as heavy metals and trace elements, or even worse, have an improper pH.

Moreover, GBL and BDO are commonly sold as GHB, and most of these kids would have no way of discerning between these substances. They use phrases like "capful" to describe amounts dosed, and "if it tastes like ass its GBL...", and so on. Not exactly precise, if you get my meaning here.

Furthermore, most kids are simply not going to admit to any drugs that they don't have to. They are afraid of going to jail, so when they take their friends in they simply say that GHB was the only drug present in order to avoid further investigation. Naturally, the media is happy to gobble that up without verifying or investigating, since such stories fit nicely into the present mold of GHB hysteria that is so prevalent in the states.

Curious. I've used GHB for over a decade. Many of my friends have, too. None of us got addicted. NONE. Why? Because we understand the mechanism of metabolization, and so does the medical field. It is simply an economic decision to let the myth of GHB toxicity linger, and grow, and grow, and grow...

The metabolites of GHB are CO2 and water. Please explain to me where the problem lies.

As far as overdosing. There are several cases on record where people ingested over 20 grams in one shot and lived to tell about it. One man ingested 75 grams and lived, no problem. As I stated above, the real risk is vomiting and suffocating. Breathing can be dramatically slowed, but there is a built in mechanism wherein the cell is protected from oxygen starvation whilst in the presence of GHB. In fact, GHB levels are increased in the body when a person falls into cold water. All those stories, those 'mysteries' about how a child survived forty five minutes underwater? GHB is the likely answer.

GBL is not organ specific carcinogenic, either. I know this because I have tested my blood for years and years and years. I understand that there have supposedly been deaths from GHB withdrawals, but this just simply is not true.

Look carefully at the reports. The guy who died from this 'withdrawal' in the hospital on day twelve had pnemonia, as well as a plethora of the wrong chemicals pumped into him at the hospital. See, dopamine degrades into adrenaline, among other things, and this causes a terrifying anxiety that could be called a withdrawal.

But this can be avoided altogether if one simply does not allow the dopamine to build up to begin with. How? Well, after six hours all GHB is out of the body , so by waiting eight hours between doses, or in other words, dosing only at night, this will never be a problem.

The problem arises when users dose as soon as they feel 'normal'. This can occur two hours, even sooner, after dosing. Of course the dopamine has not yet cleared from the previous dose, so a larger dose is need to obtain the same effect as the previous. This masquerades as tolerance. This problem is horribly exacerbated with GBL, because the conversion of GBL to GHB requires a hydroxide ion from the blood, and over a short period of time with frequent dosing, blood acidosis sets in. To make things even worse, GBL leeches potassium from the body.

So here you have a kid who has dosed GBL for a couple, three weeks, every day, then stops. The adrenaline kicks in and he gets nervous, thinks he needs a 'capful'. And all of you doctors without a comprehensive understanding of how to ameliorate his condition are perfectly willing to spew the drivel that you have posted here to said kid, and you tell him he is addicted, thereby reinforcing the myths and spreading the ignorance, which ultimately leads to stricter laws and finally, more undergound (and therefore less pure) GBL and GHB. And that, my friend, is the problem as I see it.

Solution?

Education, plain and simple. I have helped several of my colleagues online who were in what they deemed to be a horrific addiction to GBL wean themselves off by giving them FACTS, not horror stories and guesses. Not only that, I myself have managed the substance off and on for years.

My most recent blood test whilst on GBL for eight months straight, every single day, showed a blood profile so clean my doctor took a second draw because he knew I was using GBL. He argued until his lips were blue that my liver would fail if I continued. And yet, there the values were...enzymes 31. GGT right on target, kidney function BETTER than normal, and I use steroids on top of it all.

Not to mention MDMA.

So lets get our facts straight about GHB before we go and start talking about all these deaths that we just KNOW are from GHB alone.

Can it happen? Of course. But thirty years of research shows that the safety margin of GHB is 100:1, whereas Tylenol is 9:1. Liver failure from APAP is prevalent, but there is not a single case yet documented of liver failure from GHB or GBL. And yes, I know of those cited, but again, where is the source substance? Nowhere, so its purity could not be tested, could it? Nope.

And why weren't there any of these overdoses prior to 1990? Hell, GHB and GBL have been recreationally used since the seventies.

I'll answer that one for you, too. MDMA became prevalent, and MDMA impairs kidney and liver function. GHB is hygroscopic. MDMA makes one feel like they are not as impacted as they might really be by GHB, and again, by now we are dealing with GHB made in kitchen sinks.

More stuff -- GBL converts to GHB spontaneously in the presence of water, and it is a reverse reaction as well. So any liquid GHB will have a small amount of GBL in it after a short time because of this. Which is why you hear people say things like "It was from the same batch, but this time the same dose nearly killed me!" Nope. What happened was that person got to the bottom of their batch where the heavier GBL settled, and since GBL is 1.6 times as potent as GHB on a mg for mg basis due to increased bioavailability, WHAMMO! That capful turns into a cap and a half.

Solution?

Keep your GHB powedered. Which, of course, is what Xyrem is. Powdered GHB. That way the dose can be exactly controlled and there will never be a pH problem or a conversion to GBL over time.

See how the pharmaceutical industry so easily capitalizes on our ignorance? You, as a doctor, see kids come in, hear about GHB, think you understand what you are witnessing, and then go and tell it on the mountain. Since you're a doctor, people listen. They scare. They vote. Then said politician awards the patent of a FOOD (yes, GHB is a food, people, not a drug) to a pharmaceutical company and simultaneously schedules it 1 and 3. This totally ignores the 14th ammendment, not to mention the Bill of Rights, wherein our government is specifically told that section 8 outlines the areas that may be governed, and guess what? Food consumption is NOT EVEN MENTIONED.

See, we tried illegalization before. Back around 1920. It was called the Volstead Act and it gave us Al Capone. You want to tell me alcohol is safer than GHB?

So the second time around the horn we recognize, as a business, that the most commonly prescribed meds are sleep meds, anti-anxiety meds, and sexual aids.

GHB addresses, successfully, ALL of these areas. And we can't have all those government dollars wasted on all those 'safe' drugs like dyphenhydramine, doxylamine succinate, vioxx, etc., when there exists a cheap, readily available food that solves all of those problems now, can we?

Nope.

So let's find ourselves a hysterical mother who cannot accept the fact that her daughter drank and smoked weed and took X and then added GHB. We parade her tear streaked face all over America and tout the horrors of this terrible poison that has been around for forty years, but suddenly is lethal. Clinton declares an emergency and circumvents Congress altogether -- that's how bad this drug GHB is, see. It's an epidemic. I mean, can't you see the mother's tears? Surely it was GHB! She KNOWS her daughter!

BTW, since the passage of the laws, Hillary Farias' parents have crusaded against the exploitation because they have become aware of the fact that they were duped, just like you have been.

GHB isn't the problem, my friend.

Ignorance is.
 

Xque

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Just to clear this thing up about giving uppers to a person overdosing on GHB (or any other CNS depressants). In the chapter of poisonings in The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy it says:

Severe CNS depression requires circulatory and ventilatory support. Endotracheal intubation and, rarely, tracheostomy may be necessary. In suspected or known narcotic poisoning, naloxone should be used in repeated doses. Stimulants are ineffective and are generally contraindicated.

Hope this is proof enough for you guys!
 

drplatypus

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Sorry to disagree with you, Synchrojet; I'd point you to our article in the Medical Journal of Australia, which clearly shows that deaths have occured from GHB overdose alone; toxicologically proven, in black and white.

Fatalities associated with the use of ã-hydroxybutyrate and its analogues in Australasia

David G E Caldicott, Fiona Y Chow, Brian J Burns, Peter D Felgate and Roger W Byard
MJA 2004; 181 (6): 310-313
 

suburbanight

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GHB

my friend went GHB crazy over the summer of 2004. My one friend would get it in large quantites like a jug of pure G. He'd sell caps and all that shit. i never really did it much after seeing some of my friends pass out on it. I spent a couple night keepin people form choking on their own vomit.

The most rediculous thing was though that some nights they would drink on the shit. the one thing your not supposed to do they did. I am surprised some of my friends pulled through on some nights.

I read a reply that speed works to bring someone out of a G coma. It does. me and my friends were goin fishin and they all decided to take some. I didn't. But my one friend took a little too much and started to nod out. So my other buddy gave em a 20mg adderal and he was back in like 15 minutes. Uppers downers... smilers frowners. stupid shit....
 

Neez

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badjessejames said:
Originally posted by Gaz_hmmmm:


Anyone I know who's been put in the ER for a g coma wakes up 3-4 hours later very pissed because they feel like a million bucks but have tubes and IVs all over them.
Relax peeps....If they're not puking and convulsing in thier sleep it's perfectly fine ;)
Yeah, from what I've read if the G is pure, and there is absolutely no alcohol in your system it can not kill you, quite the reverse, infact. G is the perfect drug because unlike uppers which sap and fuck up your serotonin levels, G actually regnerates and stockpiles the dopemine in your brain (which is why its great to have a line of speed later because this then releases all that dopemine flooding your little world with happy goodness- wahoo!) Its also why ppl recomend giving speed to ppl who have G'd out as a way of getting them to come round. Oh, has anyone tried Di-gesics? If so what with and how was it? :) =D xx
 

drplatypus

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Sorry mate, but you're wrong on a number of different points here. GHB doesn't stockpile dopamine- it indirectly increases its release. And It isn't safe in the absence of alcohol. Just read the article I referenced a few posts back, it's free online.
 

Uncle Sam

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found this while roaming erowid, not sure what to make of it:
Some of the documented effects of GHB include anxiety and depression relief, a feeling of euphoria, stimulation of growth hormone release, aphrodisiac activity in some people, induction of deep and restful sleep, normalization of abnormal ECGs, reduction blood cholesterol, and others others. GHB Is One of the Safest Substances Known Unlike sleep-inducing drugs, GHB is nonaddictive, non-habit-forming, has no toxic metabolites (in fact, it breaks down in the body into harmless, energy-producing Krebs cycle intermediates), and does not cause respiratory suppression (it protects the heart and brain from low blood levels of oxygen). GHB is so non-toxic that one person who "accidentally" took 15 tablespoons woke up 24 hours later, feeling sedated and had a headache but no other negative effects and recovered completely within hours.
.......
However, GHB is not viewed in this light by some rogue elements of the FDA or DEA. Instead, factions within these agencies, as well as the gullible major media, have demonized GHB by falsely and maliciously [by calling it the 'date rape drug' and attributing deaths to it]
full text

it seems that an aweful lot of ghb deaths come when in combination with alcohol or something else. anyone have reliable info on this?
 

synchrojet

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Okay, Dr. Platypus --

I read the study you posted. All but two of the people had other drugs in their system, point one. Point two, there is no data about the people's default state of health. So what do we have here? Two people out of hundreds of thousands who use GHB have died? Is that a statistically significant number? Where is the overwhelming evidence that GHB is toxic? I read the references in the study and there is no evidence cited that suggests that GHB is toxic.

Also, let us not forget that these people were taking GHB that was home made, right? So who is to say that the pH was correct? And what about the ones taking 1,4 butandiol? Were there any trace elements? Not looked for apparently. The pH of the GHB is implssible to know, isn't it? Acidosis can be lethal. Home made G can be poorly balanced. Heart attacks can happen for any reason, period.

I am not seeing anything here that counters my points. What I find is a couple of deaths, one of which there is a HUGE amount of GHB in the system, suggesting that maybe suicide was the intent? With all this media hype about how dangerous it is, where are the deaths? And what about Xyrem? Why would the FDA approve a POISONOUS medication AND ALLOW FOR OFF LABEL PRESCRIPTIONS? Does that sound like a toxic substance to you? I don't think so. I think you have a slight case of GHB hysteria. Why don't you do a correlative analysis of deaths caused by Tylenol, OTC sleep meds, and even aspirin? GHB has a safety dosage margin of 100:1. That's according to the same people who argued that it was poisonous before they made it a pharmaceutical. You know why it is prescribed for sleep disorders? BECAUSE IT WORKS. I'm not addicted. And I've been addicted to H, coke, crack and meth. Surely I qualify as a drug abuser. And yet strangely, I am not addicted to GHB after over a decade of use. Currently I have none due to the legal status. I used GBL for over a year straight, every day (one day off a week), all day long (every six hours or so) and quit cold turkey the day I ran out. Why didn't I have any withdrawals? Why was my blood so clean (cleaner than it is now and I am currently drug free)? I'll tell you why. Because I understand how to use the stuff properly. I will grant that GHB can be dangerous, and its analogues (mainly BDO) can be even trickier, but with a proper understanding of how to dose there is very little danger.

Where are all these people when someone dies from alcohol? Or opioids? Nowehere. GHB is a straw dog for people who have emotional issues with deaths that involved the drug. They don't believe in harm reduction, or they would educate people rather than deliver reams of propaganda that has been time and again disproven. GHB is non-toxic, period. It is just that simple. Take too much and you can die...

...same goes for water.

And about the suppresion of dopamine release -- yes, GHB does suppress the release of dopamine, while also stimulating the production of dopamine. It is the excess dopamine that is responsible for the so called withdrawals. As I have stated before, dopamine degrades into (among other things) adrenaline. Too much adrenaline equals anxiety, aggression, paranoia, tremors...sound familiar? The fact is that I have empirically proven for myself that this is true. I did an experiment with GBL in which I dosed every hour for two weeks straight, but kept the doses very small. When I quit I sure enough felt anxiety and paranoia and all of the other symptoms described by addicts. I calculated the time needed to get through them if adrenaline was the culprit (by factoring the dopamine halflife and the degradation rate thereof along with the effects of adrenaline) and it was consistent with the theory that the contant procuction/suppressed release of dopamine was indeed the problem.

Also, I have mentioned the leeching of potassium with GBL, which can also in and of itself cause the symtpmology described. Again, this is a managable issue.

Please, Dr...get the facts straight before you preach here. Even the internal studies used by the FDA (which are available for public perusal) cite the dopamine issue. Also, the doctors who are part of the Xyrem Success Program discuss this very issue with their patients. How do I know? You got it -- I am trying to get a prescription!
 
Last edited:

Blowmonkey

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synchrojet said:
More stuff -- GBL converts to GHB spontaneously in the presence of water, and it is a reverse reaction as well. So any liquid GHB will have a small amount of GBL in it after a short time because of this. Which is why you hear people say things like "It was from the same batch, but this time the same dose nearly killed me!" Nope. What happened was that person got to the bottom of their batch where the heavier GBL settled, and since GBL is 1.6 times as potent as GHB on a mg for mg basis due to increased bioavailability, WHAMMO! That capful turns into a cap and a half.
Can you please back this up with some hard evidence, because my GBL NEVER converted itself into GHB in the presence of water. It was always of the same strength, very consistent in effects.
 

synchrojet

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The hard evidence can be found in most chemistry books that show the equation: GBL + H20 <----> GHB (ignoring catalysts). It is a two way reaction. In the absence of catalysts, the conversion to GBL is limited, and if the GHB is distilled to its strongest concentration (app. 30 grams/oz) then the reaction is limited because there is less water and the GHB is strong. However, some people start with diluted GHB, and even if it is distilled to say, 12-15 grams/oz, then one would require twice the dose to get the same effect, and the sudden GBL would be VERY noticable.

You started with GBL, so the strength is already greater than GHB, and therefore you would not likely notice the small amount of GHB in your GBL, even though its there if you add water.
 

sil80

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i dont have time to read every page, but im not sure if anyones metioned it.
but a piece of advice if you insist in rubbing speed in someones mouth, be careful cuz they can choke on it when theyre passed out.
 

MissBehavin'_416

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It's really helpful to have a thread like this one around.

I see somebody G out at least once a week. Happened to me once too. :(
 
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