Opioids What should opiates feel like?

[manboychef]

Shadow. I have to go with namnoc on this. That guy knows his stuff. If high dose oxy is not giving you what you need then what do you expect to find in heroin? It seems like you are chasing a high you have never had that has been glamorized in movies and the media.

Oxycodone and Heroin are different chemicals. Oxycodone comes from the thebaine alkaloid of the plant and Heroin comes from the morphine alkaloid of the plant. I would lay your hands on some morphine, and plug it. Less chance of getting a hot dose. Personally I would inject it, but that is not something you want to get in the habit of doing. Once you know that feeling and know you can give it to yourself you will chase that. Since you are already chasing a high that I believe you are expecting too much from, this may be your downfall.

I don't have a lot of experience with black tar heroin. Hopefully someone on this board can give you better advice. However I will mention that the place I used to cop in orlando has been on the news for 11 overdoses in the course of a night, 3 of which were fatal. Fentanyl is around, and its killing seasoned veterans. You are just starting, be very careful.

 

[shadowstryker]

Shadow. I have to go with namnoc on this. That guy knows his stuff. If high dose oxy is not giving you what you need then what do you expect to find in heroin? It seems like you are chasing a high you have never had that has been glamorized in movies and the media.

Oxycodone and Heroin are different chemicals. Oxycodone comes from the thebaine alkaloid of the plant and Heroin comes from the morphine alkaloid of the plant. I would lay your hands on some morphine, and plug it. Less chance of getting a hot dose. Personally I would inject it, but that is not something you want to get in the habit of doing. Once you know that feeling and know you can give it to yourself you will chase that. Since you are already chasing a high that I believe you are expecting too much from, this may be your downfall.

I don't have a lot of experience with black tar heroin. Hopefully someone on this board can give you better advice. However I will mention that the place I used to cop in orlando has been on the news for 11 overdoses in the course of a night, 3 of which were fatal. Fentanyl is around, and its killing seasoned veterans. You are just starting, be very careful.

Worse comes to worse I don't get what i want from it and stop. I don't think I'd overdose snorting match-size bumps.

 

[Codeine Demon]

How long does it take before addiction kicks in?

The entire reason I ended up getting into drugs in the beginning was to feel something good/happy.

Under these circumstances addiction is gonna kick in pretty fast. If your looking to drugs because your not happy then your cooking a recipe for disaster.

Also I don't really get euphoria from opioids, MDMA, well hell yeah I do but followed by depression - not fun.

Smoke some weed with opis man, very complimentery

 

[Fire&Water]

The best thing to do when a Perc high begins is to sit or lay on my bed, watching TV. Perc's are Codeine

Thats a new one

Shoot yer TV

 

[UpInFlames]

You may just metabolize opiates differently. I'm not up on the chemistry, so can only explain it to you the way an anesthesiologist explained it to me.

I am lacking an enzyme that breaks down morphine and it's derivatives properly. As a result, I do not get the euphoria off of that class of drugs. I do get pain relief, I do get very dizzy, and I do get very nauseous from them. I also get a "body high" consisting of severe ataxia (staggers and even falling the one time I took oxycodone for pain). The effects last a long time because I am unable to properly clear the metabolites of the drugs.

On the other hand. I do get a "rush" and euphoria from Dilaudid and Fentanyl affects me as it should (both used only in medical settings) I have smoked and snorted heroin and it took a large quantity for me to feel some euphoria but I did get a strong and pleasant body high from the drug, as well as such severe nausea that i was glad I came pre-armed with phergan for the occasion.

OTOH, i metabolize benzos extremely efficiently and it takes large doses to affect me in a medical setting. At the same time, once an effective dose is reached, I do not rapidly develop a tolerance.

It is quite possible that the OP simply metabolizes these drugs differently. He needs to be extremely careful. There is a note in my medical files warning about my "strangeness" with opiates as it is possible that respiratory suppression could happen before i showed signs of typical effects.

I won't take opiates to get high because all they do is make me sick, with the exception of heroin, which i won't take because i know I'd turn into an addict. I do use opiates when needed for pain management; in small doses with medication for the nausea and dizziness.

I also don't smoke weed because sativa makes me paranoid as hell, and that's the old stuff. I'm scared to death to even try modern, selectively bred marijuana, though if I could find some low THC indica I might like to give it a try for old time's sake.

 

[manboychef]

Upinflames, I have the same problem with pot. I used to smoke everyday, then one day I got this really potent pot. Had a panic attack from it. I thought it was just an isolated incident so I smoked again a day later...same thing. I ended up quitting smoking after it happened a third time. I just didn't want to risk it.

And stryker: even matchhead sized bumps of fentanyl can kill.

 

[shadowstryker]

Upinflames, I have the same problem with pot. I used to smoke everyday, then one day I got this really potent pot. Had a panic attack from it. I thought it was just an isolated incident so I smoked again a day later...same thing. I ended up quitting smoking after it happened a third time. I just didn't want to risk it.

And stryker: even matchhead sized bumps of fentanyl can kill.

Should I just take smaller bumps then? Is there a way to test if it's fentanyl...there has to be some way to protect against that shit...

 

[manboychef]

I am not sure about testing it other than GC/MS. Yeah just take very small bumps and wait a while between each one. The difference between a good dose/high, and an overdose with fentanyl is so small that it can barely be seen with the naked eye.

 

[shadowstryker]

I am not sure about testing it other than GC/MS. Yeah just take very small bumps and wait a while between each one. The difference between a good dose/high, and an overdose with fentanyl is so small that it can barely be seen with the naked eye.

Damn, that really is a shame. Someone needs to find a way to make a test kit for that shit. They'd save lives and be a very rich person.

 

[Bomb319]

As someone who has taken 4 years of pharmacy as well as being an opiate addict for nearly 8 years - having taken every opiate available legally or otherwise, I can try to give you a bit of insight, here. However, keep in mind that I am NOT a doctor, nor am I licensed to give medical advice. Take my opinion for what it is - just another post on the boards, but with a lot of knowledge and experience to back it up.

It isn't your original post that intrigued me; it's your self-described inability to feel anything during an orgasm. That tells me that your problem is very likely due to one of the following things:

1. You do indeed have either a lower than normal level of dopamine or serotonin, or a problem with their signalling in your brain and spinal cord

2. Have a psychosomatic block you've developed over the years in which you expect too much from what you think that pleasure should be. Over time, this could lead to a psychologically induced desensitization to both drug and natural rewards. You should do your best to go into these experiences with no expectations whatsoever, and focus on the positive feelings, without ever telling yourself that the experience somehow should have been better.

I'm very sceptical of the possibility of it being due purely to an increased metabolism of opioids. If this were the case, natural rewards should not be affected as well.

 

[shadowstryker]

As someone who has taken 4 years of pharmacy as well as being an opiate addict for nearly 8 years - having taken every opiate available legally or otherwise, I can try to give you a bit of insight, here. However, keep in mind that I am NOT a doctor, nor am I licensed to give medical advice. Take my opinion for what it is - just another post on the boards, but with a lot of knowledge and experience to back it up.

It isn't your original post that intrigued me; it's your self-described inability to feel anything during an orgasm. That tells me that your problem is very likely due to one of the following things:

1. You do indeed have either a lower than normal level of dopamine or serotonin, or a problem with their signalling in your brain and spinal cord

2. Have a psychosomatic block you've developed over the years in which you expect too much from what you think that pleasure should be. Over time, this could lead to a psychologically induced desensitization to both drug and natural rewards. You should do your best to go into these experiences with no expectations whatsoever, and focus on the positive feelings, without ever telling yourself that the experience somehow should have been better.

I'm very sceptical of the possibility of it being due purely to an increased metabolism of opioids. If this were the case, natural rewards should not be affected as well.

Thanks for the insight. It isn't due to expecting too much, I usually do just go with whatever happens. Although this was also due to a lot of drugs affecting me differently, so it was an acquired trait. I'd also like to point out that little 11-year-old me probably wasn't expecting too much during orgasm. It isn't that I don't feel much, I don't feel anything at all during orgasm. As I'm typing this I'm feeling more and more awkward, but so be it. Since the effects of both "natural" rewards as well as "synthetic" rewards (read: drugs) are affected, I believe it's a biological issue or something is off with the chemistry in my brain. My knowledge is pretty much limited to a college psych course I took, but I believe the cause is with serotonin and dopamine as well. This would also explain my personality, which is pretty much like an emotion flat-line if you ask most people. I don't know if this is due to a deficiency, or a mutation of the neurons that inhibit serotonin/dopamine or something...I have no clue about any of that stuff. I share your belief that it isn't due to fast metabolization of opioids, because I'm up to 40mg of oxy and it gets me nodding, there's no reason there shouldn't be any euphoria accompanied with it. I might try 45mg oxy tonight, I doubt I'd overdose on that, right?

Anyway, this is all just another reason I'm looking for some MDMA right now. If I get euphoria from MDMA then I know it isn't a serotonin issue, if I don't then I've just pinpointed one of the neurotransmitters that is causing the issue and am able to prove it's a biological issue with the neurons. Not sure this would help me in any way in terms of "curing" it, but I take comfort in knowledge.

 

[motiv311]

So, I'll start off with saying that SWIM is very new to opiates. SWIM has always assumed that he has a dopamine deficiency or something just because SWIM is always at an emotional flat line and fakes a lot of emotions to seem normal (kind of like Dexter, but to a much much lesser extent). SWIM thinks it's a dopamine deficiency or something biological because it affects how drugs affect SWIM as well. For example, SWIM's thought process/judgement aren't impaired at all when drinking, and weed doesn't make me super happy (SWIM will try xtc soon to see if that works, though). So, with this little background knowledge, on to the question...


What should opiates feel like? SWIM started using them recently after acquiring 200mg of pure Oxycodone and 200mg of hydrocodone in Vics, and has used four or five times before. Now, SWIM thinks something is up right away because it takes 30mg of Oxy to start really feeling it (no nausea at all though, yay). From what SWIM hears that would normally make a new user puke. With 30mg of Oxy, and also with 45mg of hydrocodone, SWIM's body feels warm and very relaxed. Almost like SWIM could just melt into his seat. However, even if SWIM starts nodding, there is never any euphoria or change in mental-state at all. Just super-relaxation and some really vivid/lucid dreams. Is it normal not to feel euphoria or a change in mental-state while on opiates?

sounds like its working to me..... maybe your obsession with that word "euphoria" is what is messing you up....
Guess what, feeling like your "melting into your seat" .... "super relaxation" .. lucid dreaming? These are all indicative of a serious change in "mental state" .... and possibly approaching euphoria... stop looking for whats missing are start seeing whats awesome right there right then

 

[Bomb319]

Thanks for the insight. It isn't due to expecting too much, I usually do just go with whatever happens. Although this was also due to a lot of drugs affecting me differently, so it was an acquired trait. I'd also like to point out that little 11-year-old me probably wasn't expecting too much during orgasm. It isn't that I don't feel much, I don't feel anything at all during orgasm. As I'm typing this I'm feeling more and more awkward, but so be it. Since the effects of both "natural" rewards as well as "synthetic" rewards (read: drugs) are affected, I believe it's a biological issue or something is off with the chemistry in my brain. My knowledge is pretty much limited to a college psych course I took, but I believe the cause is with serotonin and dopamine as well. This would also explain my personality, which is pretty much like an emotion flat-line if you ask most people. I don't know if this is due to a deficiency, or a mutation of the neurons that inhibit serotonin/dopamine or something...I have no clue about any of that stuff. I share your belief that it isn't due to fast metabolization of opioids, because I'm up to 40mg of oxy and it gets me nodding, there's no reason there shouldn't be any euphoria accompanied with it. I might try 45mg oxy tonight, I doubt I'd overdose on that, right?

Anyway, this is all just another reason I'm looking for some MDMA right now. If I get euphoria from MDMA then I know it isn't a serotonin issue, if I don't then I've just pinpointed one of the neurotransmitters that is causing the issue and am able to prove it's a biological issue with the neurons. Not sure this would help me in any way in terms of "curing" it, but I take comfort in knowledge.

It's critical that you keep in mind that not feeling euphoria most likely has nothing to do with potentially overdosing. If you keep increasing your dose without a corresponding increase in your tolerance, you can end up in OD without realizing it since that is due to severe respiratory depression, or passing out and aspirating vomit. Even if it turns out that you DO have a very high tolerance, that doesn't mean there isn't a dose that will eventually be very dangerous for you... When I was fully naive to opiates, I would feel amazing on 10 mg of oxy, and nod out on 15-20. Any more, and I'd feel sick and ruin the experience. Trust me and the others who have said this already - not being able to feel euphoria on opiates is actually a damn good thing in the long run. Imagine having to find them, go broke paying for them, and constantly having the worst flu of your life when you can't get them - combined with the worst obsession of obtaining them without ever feeling satisfied without them again.

It's really not a sustainable lifestyle. I would definitely suggest seeing your doctor about your difficulty experiencing natural reward, though. It may be something as simple as requiring a supplement, or a safer medication.

 

[Bomb319]

You also might want to try taking 5-HTP. It's a natural supplement available at any health food store, or anywhere that sells natural products or supplements. It's a necessary precursor to serotonin, and gets metabolized into it in your body. In effect, it's an antidepressant that many studies have shown to be more or less equivalent in effect to antidepressants. It's also usually quite a bit easier to come off of than typical SSRI's, so it might be a good experiment for you to try and see whether or not the problem could be a serotonin imbalance. Low serotonin not only causes depression, but can also greatly affect the neurotransmission of dopamine and other critical signalling chemicals in the brain. I'm suggesting 5-HTP first because that will give you an opportunity to test that theory without having to seek medical help first; I almost guarantee that they would give you an SSRI that is physically addictive and potentially hell to ever withdraw from. That said, I really do think that you should go see a specialist if that doesn't work - someone who will help you get to the root of the problem, and not just write you an Rx to get you out of there. It's really sad how many GPs and even specialists do this these days.

 

[manboychef]

You also might want to try taking 5-HTP. It's a natural supplement available at any health food store, or anywhere that sells natural products or supplements. It's a necessary precursor to serotonin, and gets metabolized into it in your body. In effect, it's an antidepressant that many studies have shown to be more or less equivalent in effect to antidepressants. It's also usually quite a bit easier to come off of than typical SSRI's, so it might be a good experiment for you to try and see whether or not the problem could be a serotonin imbalance. Low serotonin not only causes depression, but can also greatly affect the neurotransmission of dopamine and other critical signalling chemicals in the brain. I'm suggesting 5-HTP first because that will give you an opportunity to test that theory without having to seek medical help first; I almost guarantee that they would give you an SSRI that is physically addictive and potentially hell to ever withdraw from. That said, I really do think that you should go see a specialist if that doesn't work - someone who will help you get to the root of the problem, and not just write you an Rx to get you out of there. It's really sad how many GPs and even specialists do this these days.

I completely agree with this. Shop around till you find a doctor that will devote some time to you, and will not judge you for your experimentation with drugs. Don't bring up your experimentation until you know that you can trust them. I have an excellent GP that treats me well, does not treat me differently knowing that I am an addict. He was actually one of the people pushing for me to get help, and made sure I was made comfortable during the waiting time between getting accepted to rehab, and actually getting a bed. I believe it is this way because I don't bullshit him, and I am honest about my life. However there are many doctors that will flag you as a drug seeker if you are honest with them...so be careful.

These doctors are few and far between, so definitely research and try out all your options.

 

[Sprout]

Like a warm blanket and a fire for your your cold bitter heart.
Until it's a needle in your arm and blood on your hands.
If you forgive my terribly poetic verse.

 

[UpInFlames]

All I know about Fentanyl is that my step-cousin stole my late husbands pain meds, tampered with one of the Fentanyl patches and died of a Fentanyl OD.

Scary and very sad. During the same period (late 90s), there was a rash of deaths due to heroin cut with fentanyl. It's a dangerous drug,and IMO not one to mess with.

I've had it in a medical setting a few times, and there's no real rush off it. More like being hit in the head and losing consciousness.

 

[shadowstryker]

It's critical that you keep in mind that not feeling euphoria most likely has nothing to do with potentially overdosing. If you keep increasing your dose without a corresponding increase in your tolerance, you can end up in OD without realizing it since that is due to severe respiratory depression, or passing out and aspirating vomit. Even if it turns out that you DO have a very high tolerance, that doesn't mean there isn't a dose that will eventually be very dangerous for you... When I was fully naive to opiates, I would feel amazing on 10 mg of oxy, and nod out on 15-20. Any more, and I'd feel sick and ruin the experience. Trust me and the others who have said this already - not being able to feel euphoria on opiates is actually a damn good thing in the long run. Imagine having to find them, go broke paying for them, and constantly having the worst flu of your life when you can't get them - combined with the worst obsession of obtaining them without ever feeling satisfied without them again.

It's really not a sustainable lifestyle. I would definitely suggest seeing your doctor about your difficulty experiencing natural reward, though. It may be something as simple as requiring a supplement, or a safer medication.

Unfortunately I learned my lesson last night, where I either OD'd or came very close to it. I ended up taking 40mg instead of 30mg because I wasn't really feeling it. Usually I have to give into the nod when I feel it coming, but last night it hit me full force and there was no way I could stop it. I also had to start "manually" taking deep breaths because my breathing was so slow, leading to a fear of nodding and not waking up. Being alone it was pretty scary. I won't go into all the details but I know when too much is just too much. Luckily for me though I don't get any nausea from Oxy at all, even at that level.

I'm thinking about seeing a doc soon about the natural reward thing, but I'm not sure yet.

 

[shadowstryker]

Although strangely enough I stupidly took 40mg Oxy for the same reason that I did last night and didn't feel as though I was iverodsing at all. In fact, I've very thoroughly enjoyed the high tonight although I do feel as though it was on the weaker side. Does tolerance build that quickly? Like, I've really only been using a few weeks and I'm almost up to 45mg a day.

 

[sekio]

Yes, tolerance to oxycodone builds quite rapidly, especially if you're using it for euphoric/recreational effects.